Lathy - I like the totem idea. It's a bit slow, but it's a nice touch. Though, I don't think you should change the cost - if you were to play it on turn 1, your opponent would likely not answer it and then you would buff it by +1/+1 (making it a 1/4). This would have been an ok stat-line if it stayed that way, but since it can grow bigger and stickier, it would always contest the enemy board and slowly shut down their tempo. Your card wouldn't be as problematic as vicious fledgeling, but your opponent would have had problems dealing with this 1-drop (if played on t1). This is why I think keeping it @ 2 mana is fine. Change the art.
Hereharehere - I prefer Earthen vitality. I don't like the RNG aspect in Head Crone (shouldn't it be 1-3 and not "1 or 3"?) and the Lackey shuffling part. Normally you don't want to dilute your deck with low-impact cards and ruin your next top-decks.
GerVez0512 - Give me a sec to express my thoughts. Sorry, mate, but I have to go out. I will be back in 2 hours or so. I can give you a fast feedback:
Larissa - ok; Infernal core - it shouldn't be in the rogue class. Also, 10 mana is too much. Vial - effect ok, cost too high. Weapon - Overcosted imho, 8-9 is fine. Cluster - overall fine.
@ ger i think some of the tokens are under powered due to high cost, and some are far more preferable to others because they impact the board immediately. You're putting them at the bottom of deck too so I could only see it being used with some sort of cheat... (what's the neutral guy who casts spells at end of turn), which is interesting but too niche for comp.
RE my Head Crone, thanks for feedback. my intent is to weaken your next draws top decking lackeys (thanks for spell check ger) but maybe this isn't the way to do it. 1 or 3 damage is intended, as to do 3 you put 3 lackeys on top, causing more disruption. I had it 4 4/4 doing 2 or 4 damage. The issue i have is i don't like that it's similar (the same) mechanic as choose one :/. I think there's some potential in deck disrupting yourself for tempo, any suggestion for trigger on amount of damage?
@ ger i think some of the tokens are under powered due to high cost, and some are far more preferable to others because they impact the board immediately. You're putting them at the bottom of deck too so I could only see it being used with some sort of cheat... (what's the neutral guy who casts spells at end of turn), which is interesting but too niche for comp.
RE my Head Crone, thanks for feedback. my intent is to weaken your next draws top decking lackeys (thanks for spell check ger) but maybe this isn't the way to do it. 1 or 3 damage is intended, as to do 3 you put 3 lackeys on top, causing more disruption. I had it 4 4/4 doing 2 or 4 damage. The issue i have is i don't like that it's similar (the same) mechanic as choose one :/. I think there's some potential in deck disrupting yourself for tempo, any suggestion for trigger on amount of damage?
Thanks for the feedback. Actually i never thought of combo with Grand Archivist, i already imagine a cool deck with Larissa! You can play her multiple times too, with Shadowstep or Youthful Brewmaster. However, what if change the cost of Artifacts to 8? Will be better?
About your card, i think the choice of 1, 2, or 3 damage is good enough, also, what if she shuffled Ancestral Healings? It'd be more disruptive.
This is an old idea I posted last year (but not as part of a competition). The idea is that you can use it on your own minion to push for more damage or protect yourself against board clears, or you can use it on your opponent's minion to get an Assassinate with a downside. Obviously there's no downside if your opponent only has one minion, but you could say the same about Deadly Shot.
Actually i never thought of combo with Grand Archivist, i already imagine a cool deck with Larissa! You can play her multiple times too, with Shadowstep or Youthful Brewmaster.
The weapon could be fetched with the Cavern Shinyfinder as well. Just saying.
However, what if change the cost of Artifacts to 8? Will be better?
Well yeah, though let me go through them one more time:
- Infernal core - to me this treasure should stay in the warlock class. Summoning demons is not a rogue thing and thematically it would feel super confusing/awkward there. Imho you should replace this treasure with something else.
- Vial - I honestly think it's fine. Unlike priests and mages rogues can't tutor spells, so the only way of getting it is by drawing it the old fashioned way. In this case you will really have put a lot of effort to go through most of the deck and at the end you would enhance 9 spells at max. For me this isn't broken, because rogue spells are centered around killing single-targets and can only inflict mediocre damage. So you won't break the game by designing it. In order to deny fatigue, rogues can play Academic Espionage but who knows what they will get from it.
Grand Archivist could cast the treasure prematurely, but it can also cast something else (like Sap, Eviscerate on a friendly minion...). Imho the outcome of this epic is far too random and I don't think people would risk losing their precious spells just to cheat out a treasure.
- Weapon - to me this is fine as well, because people can always ooze it. Not to mention, the damage is split randomly, so it's not like it will do some serious damage to the game and play experience of your opponent.
- Cluster - well, this being at 8 makes it unbalanced now. Imagine how you will get shaman and priest spellstones for 0 mana, or the warrior one and you use your HP. The following might sound like a clunky strategy, but you can easily include Malygos in the deck, copy it for 0 mana and kill the opponent out of nowhere. The Cluster is already powerful, so you can remove the last part of the text (how the 0 cost persists through upgrades) and maybe reduce the spellstones' cost only by 2 instead of making them completely free like they are now?
Guys, what do you think abut this one? Not sure if it's balanced enough.
Prepare for trouble and make it double!
Good idea, but you need need to change "duplicate" to "summon a copy of". Also, maybe you just make it deal 4 damage, because it's not fun for your opponent to be stuck with a minions, which can't attack.
Having read the brief a bit more carefully, I've realised that it's more specific than I though and my previous suggestion wouldn't really fit. Here's a new one.
Ok, but then it would be a much worse version of Grim Rally. It would also have nothing to do with this competition.
At first I saw Soul Extraction as a 3 mana Blessing of Kings with a twist. If you kill a 1-cost minion, you lose a bit of value and this is added to the cost of your spell (which makes it 4 mana, i.e. on paar with the paladin card). You are right about the latter part, that it loses its discover window, which makes it unqualified for this comp, but 3 mana "destroy a minion" (if it's the only one in play) seemed way too cheap for me. The hunter equivalent acts randomly and if there are two minions on the board, it can kill the wrong one sometimes. Back to warlock - if you are playing a control deck and you cast an AoE first (Hellfire), you can kill most of the enemy minions and finish off the last remaining one with this cheap version of Assassinate. As I said, this seemed too powerful even though it was in the right direction.
As for the Grim Rally argument - well, it kinda depends on the board state. If you have 5 or more minions, then the 1-cost spell is better. But in a different scenario you get +4/+4 stats.
Anyway, since you want to keep the original idea then keep it the way it is. I might be downgrading the buff part too much. I certainly won't advise you to change it like Whattheheck suggested, because it would have been too punishing.
Having read the brief a bit more carefully, I've realised that it's more specific than I though and my previous suggestion wouldn't really fit. Here's a new one.
1) Power creep to Kidnapper. Since Sap comes with a cheap body, your minion would have been played in every tempo and aggro rogue deck (except odd).
Although the pirates have bad stats, imagine summoning a copy of chargers. The following might not sound convincing to you, but Cold Blood could easily be played again to form serious burst. You would combine it with Southsea Deckhand, which could inflict 20 damage (deckhand + 2xCB + Ferryman).
[edit] About the 1st part - I guess you can always increase its cost, so this isn't an issue. Tbh I can't decide if summoning a copy of a pirate enhances aggro rogue in a healthy way or not.
I have some questions regarding my cards. Sorry if I became too annoying - you can always ignore this post.
Since I got a lot of feedback concerning the Refill Trick, I decided to remove it. People were right about the springed up inconsistency with the even and odd mechanics. My card is now left with a damaging spell and a minion summoning one. The offensive trick can always be modified and I have a good idea on how to make it (Darkbomb). The defensive side is very questionable, since rogues are a squishy class and aren't we;;-known to have good stalling options. They have reactive tools but in terms of tempo (Sap, Vanish, Backstab, Vilespine Slayer). Healing and AoEs are out of the question (lifesteal doesn't fit the theme of the trickster that well). So this is why I made the Distraction trick. There is also a rogue ability called Distract in WoW, so summoning decoys which lure the attacks sounded fitting. I'm aware that the current version seems weak. I could increase the number of taunts to 3 and make it better than a regular Mirror Image, however this change would buff Quest Rogue A LOT.
I have another idea for the trickster. The two tricks would be:
- 2 mana deal 4 damage to the opponent's face; - 2 mana deal 4 damage to a minion.
And I will lower his stats to 2/2. Which version do you prefer?
I have some questions regarding my cards. Sorry if I became too annoying - you can always ignore this post.
Since I got a lot of feedback concerning the Refill Trick, I decided to remove it. People were right about the springed up inconsistency with the even and odd mechanics. My card is now left with a damaging spell and a minion summoning one. The offensive trick can always be modified and I have a good idea on how to make it (Darkbomb). The defensive side is very questionable, since rogues are a squishy class and aren't we;;-known to have good stalling options. They have reactive tools but in terms of tempo (Sap, Vanish, Backstab, Vilespine Slayer). Healing and AoEs are out of the question (lifesteal doesn't fit the theme of the trickster that well). So this is why I made the Distraction trick. There is also a rogue ability called Distract in WoW, so summoning decoys which lure the attacks sounded fitting. I'm aware that the current version seems weak. I could increase the number of taunts to 3 and make it better than a regular Mirror Image, however this change would buff Quest Rogue A LOT.
I have another idea for the trickster. The two tricks would be:
- 2 mana deal 4 damage to the opponent's face; - 2 mana deal 4 damage to a minion.
And I will lower his stats to 2/2. Which version do you prefer?
Honestly I consider dealing 4 damage to a face is a lot weaker than dealing 4 to a minion, so I prefer the original option. However, it's true that it can boost Quest Rogue A LOT. What about making 3 different 0/2 Taunts? Like the pigeon bros with different names or something like that :)
Honestly I consider dealing 4 damage to a face is a lot weaker than dealing 4 to a minion, so I prefer the original option. However, it's true that it can boost Quest Rogue A LOT. What about making 3 different 0/2 Taunts? Like the pigeon bros with different names or something like that :)
Well, the taunts are directly summoned on the board and they don't count towards the quest. If a rogue casts Vanish, then, yeah, they do. I meant, that a quest rogue would make them 4/4s. As for your suggestion - wouldn't that make the odd trick a bit complicated? I mean, your advice is completely reasonable and logical, but giving vanilla stated minions their own unique names doesn't feel right. People would say "you put too much effort just to make this boring effect less abusable. You should have gine with a different design". If users disagree with me and like your suggestion, I will take it.
Inb4 to me the burst is really powerful, especially in rogue especially with support cards like Shadowstep and Spirit of the Shark. I have faced a lot of tempo rogues in the past and you can trust me when I say, that they would do anything to get more reach against control decks with many taunt minions.
Thx for the feedback. And since it's fair to return the favour - I like your card and I find it balanced. However draining should start with a capital letter, so I highly advise you to make this change.
Cheers guys. I've changed the card to a 1-mana 0/2. Sort of a compromise making it a 1-cost, but also nerfing the stats. I've changed the art (didn't realise that was the hero power art, doh).
@ Hereharehere: If I'd had to choose one, I'd go with Earthern Vitality. I'ts not my favourite, but it has some versatility.
@ GerVez0512: Like the idea of Speedrunner Larissa, but I don't like put a 10-cost spell at the bottom of your deck, which doesn't have immediate impact. Should cost less, or (and) should just be shuffles in your deck.
Well, thanks guys. I need some time, before I can return the feedback.
Lathy - I like the totem idea. It's a bit slow, but it's a nice touch. Though, I don't think you should change the cost - if you were to play it on turn 1, your opponent would likely not answer it and then you would buff it by +1/+1 (making it a 1/4). This would have been an ok stat-line if it stayed that way, but since it can grow bigger and stickier, it would always contest the enemy board and slowly shut down their tempo. Your card wouldn't be as problematic as vicious fledgeling, but your opponent would have had problems dealing with this 1-drop (if played on t1). This is why I think keeping it @ 2 mana is fine. Change the art.
Hereharehere - I prefer Earthen vitality. I don't like the RNG aspect in Head Crone (shouldn't it be 1-3 and not "1 or 3"?) and the Lackey shuffling part. Normally you don't want to dilute your deck with low-impact cards and ruin your next top-decks.
GerVez0512 -
Give me a sec to express my thoughts.Sorry, mate, but I have to go out. I will be back in 2 hours or so. I can give you a fast feedback:Larissa - ok;
Infernal core - it shouldn't be in the rogue class. Also, 10 mana is too much.
Vial - effect ok, cost too high.
Weapon - Overcosted imho, 8-9 is fine.
Cluster - overall fine.
@ ger i think some of the tokens are under powered due to high cost, and some are far more preferable to others because they impact the board immediately. You're putting them at the bottom of deck too so I could only see it being used with some sort of cheat... (what's the neutral guy who casts spells at end of turn), which is interesting but too niche for comp.
RE my Head Crone, thanks for feedback. my intent is to weaken your next draws top decking lackeys (thanks for spell check ger) but maybe this isn't the way to do it. 1 or 3 damage is intended, as to do 3 you put 3 lackeys on top, causing more disruption. I had it 4 4/4 doing 2 or 4 damage. The issue i have is i don't like that it's similar (the same) mechanic as choose one :/. I think there's some potential in deck disrupting yourself for tempo, any suggestion for trigger on amount of damage?
Thanks for the feedback. Actually i never thought of combo with Grand Archivist, i already imagine a cool deck with Larissa! You can play her multiple times too, with Shadowstep or Youthful Brewmaster. However, what if change the cost of Artifacts to 8? Will be better?
About your card, i think the choice of 1, 2, or 3 damage is good enough, also, what if she shuffled Ancestral Healings? It'd be more disruptive.
This is an old idea I posted last year (but not as part of a competition). The idea is that you can use it on your own minion to push for more damage or protect yourself against board clears, or you can use it on your opponent's minion to get an Assassinate with a downside. Obviously there's no downside if your opponent only has one minion, but you could say the same about Deadly Shot.
If you honestly ask me, I think it should target friendly minions only. Then it will be superb.
The weapon could be fetched with the Cavern Shinyfinder as well. Just saying.
Well yeah, though let me go through them one more time:
- Infernal core - to me this treasure should stay in the warlock class. Summoning demons is not a rogue thing and thematically it would feel super confusing/awkward there. Imho you should replace this treasure with something else.
- Vial - I honestly think it's fine. Unlike priests and mages rogues can't tutor spells, so the only way of getting it is by drawing it the old fashioned way. In this case you will really have put a lot of effort to go through most of the deck and at the end you would enhance 9 spells at max. For me this isn't broken, because rogue spells are centered around killing single-targets and can only inflict mediocre damage. So you won't break the game by designing it. In order to deny fatigue, rogues can play Academic Espionage but who knows what they will get from it.
Grand Archivist could cast the treasure prematurely, but it can also cast something else (like Sap, Eviscerate on a friendly minion...). Imho the outcome of this epic is far too random and I don't think people would risk losing their precious spells just to cheat out a treasure.
- Weapon - to me this is fine as well, because people can always ooze it. Not to mention, the damage is split randomly, so it's not like it will do some serious damage to the game and play experience of your opponent.
- Cluster - well, this being at 8 makes it unbalanced now. Imagine how you will get shaman and priest spellstones for 0 mana, or the warrior one and you use your HP. The following might sound like a clunky strategy, but you can easily include Malygos in the deck, copy it for 0 mana and kill the opponent out of nowhere. The Cluster is already powerful, so you can remove the last part of the text (how the 0 cost persists through upgrades) and maybe reduce the spellstones' cost only by 2 instead of making them completely free like they are now?
Guys, what do you think abut this one? Not sure if it's balanced enough.
Prepare for trouble and make it double!
Good idea, but you need need to change "duplicate" to "summon a copy of". Also, maybe you just make it deal 4 damage, because it's not fun for your opponent to be stuck with a minions, which can't attack.
Ok, but then it would be a much worse version of Grim Rally. It would also have nothing to do with this competition.
How about making it cost 4 and giving adjacent minions +3/+3?
Click here to see my custom pirate adventure, The Treasures of VanCleef! https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/fan-creations/240766-expansion-competition-the-treasures-of-vancleef
Having read the brief a bit more carefully, I've realised that it's more specific than I though and my previous suggestion wouldn't really fit. Here's a new one.
At first I saw Soul Extraction as a 3 mana Blessing of Kings with a twist. If you kill a 1-cost minion, you lose a bit of value and this is added to the cost of your spell (which makes it 4 mana, i.e. on paar with the paladin card). You are right about the latter part, that it loses its discover window, which makes it unqualified for this comp, but 3 mana "destroy a minion" (if it's the only one in play) seemed way too cheap for me. The hunter equivalent acts randomly and if there are two minions on the board, it can kill the wrong one sometimes. Back to warlock - if you are playing a control deck and you cast an AoE first (Hellfire), you can kill most of the enemy minions and finish off the last remaining one with this cheap version of Assassinate. As I said, this seemed too powerful even though it was in the right direction.
As for the Grim Rally argument - well, it kinda depends on the board state. If you have 5 or more minions, then the 1-cost spell is better. But in a different scenario you get +4/+4 stats.
Anyway, since you want to keep the original idea then keep it the way it is. I might be downgrading the buff part too much. I certainly won't advise you to change it like Whattheheck suggested, because it would have been too punishing.
1) Power creep to Kidnapper. Since Sap comes with a cheap body, your minion would have been played in every tempo and aggro rogue deck (except odd).
2) https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/minion?filter-premium=1&filter-race=23&filter-class=129&display=3
Although the pirates have bad stats, imagine summoning a copy of chargers. The following might not sound convincing to you, but Cold Blood could easily be played again to form serious burst. You would combine it with Southsea Deckhand, which could inflict 20 damage (deckhand + 2xCB + Ferryman).
[edit] About the 1st part - I guess you can always increase its cost, so this isn't an issue. Tbh I can't decide if summoning a copy of a pirate enhances aggro rogue in a healthy way or not.
I have some questions regarding my cards. Sorry if I became too annoying - you can always ignore this post.
Since I got a lot of feedback concerning the Refill Trick, I decided to remove it. People were right about the springed up inconsistency with the even and odd mechanics. My card is now left with a damaging spell and a minion summoning one. The offensive trick can always be modified and I have a good idea on how to make it (Darkbomb). The defensive side is very questionable, since rogues are a squishy class and aren't we;;-known to have good stalling options. They have reactive tools but in terms of tempo (Sap, Vanish, Backstab, Vilespine Slayer). Healing and AoEs are out of the question (lifesteal doesn't fit the theme of the trickster that well). So this is why I made the Distraction trick. There is also a rogue ability called Distract in WoW, so summoning decoys which lure the attacks sounded fitting. I'm aware that the current version seems weak. I could increase the number of taunts to 3 and make it better than a regular Mirror Image, however this change would buff Quest Rogue A LOT.
I have another idea for the trickster. The two tricks would be:
- 2 mana deal 4 damage to the opponent's face;
- 2 mana deal 4 damage to a minion.
And I will lower his stats to 2/2. Which version do you prefer?
Honestly I consider dealing 4 damage to a face is a lot weaker than dealing 4 to a minion, so I prefer the original option. However, it's true that it can boost Quest Rogue A LOT. What about making 3 different 0/2 Taunts? Like the pigeon bros with different names or something like that :)
Click here to see my custom pirate adventure, The Treasures of VanCleef! https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/fan-creations/240766-expansion-competition-the-treasures-of-vancleef
Well, the taunts are directly summoned on the board and they don't count towards the quest. If a rogue casts Vanish, then, yeah, they do. I meant, that a quest rogue would make them 4/4s. As for your suggestion - wouldn't that make the odd trick a bit complicated? I mean, your advice is completely reasonable and logical, but giving vanilla stated minions their own unique names doesn't feel right. People would say "you put too much effort just to make this boring effect less abusable. You should have gine with a different design". If users disagree with me and like your suggestion, I will take it.
Inb4 to me the burst is really powerful, especially in rogue especially with support cards like Shadowstep and Spirit of the Shark. I have faced a lot of tempo rogues in the past and you can trust me when I say, that they would do anything to get more reach against control decks with many taunt minions.
Thx for the feedback. And since it's fair to return the favour - I like your card and I find it balanced. However draining should start with a capital letter, so I highly advise you to make this change.
@ Hereharehere: If I'd had to choose one, I'd go with Earthern Vitality. I'ts not my favourite, but it has some versatility.
@ GerVez0512: Like the idea of Speedrunner Larissa, but I don't like put a 10-cost spell at the bottom of your deck, which doesn't have immediate impact. Should cost less, or (and) should just be shuffles in your deck.
Hey what do you think about my card https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/fan-creations/231171-weekly-card-design-competition-9-11-submission?page=2#c35
You know that feeling when you realize you lost an upvote?
Feelsbadman.
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.