Hearthpwn

Quote from SilentSecond >>

Quote from Sinti >>

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Quote from TheProgenitor >>

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Welp, any thoughts on the balancing for this? This is quite difficult to balance...

 I feel like it should cost at least 5. With only a 3-Attack minion - which shouldn't be too hard to have - the damage alone is on level with Volcanic Potion and Consecration, with the added bonus that the targeted minion is safe and can trade safely after. This is also Hunter AoE, which there is very little of, so it needs to be kind of situational so as to not be used in nearly every Hunter deck (like how they handled Leeching Poison).

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm kinda on the fence with Punching Spree's cost being either 4 or 5. On one hand, Punching Spree is an AoE in Hunter, and Hunters aren't supposed to be good at AoE (the only AoE cards in Hunter is Deathstalker Rexxar and Explosive Trap); also, the 5-cost Brawl exists. On the other hand, I compared it to Betrayal, which doesn't see any play; also, Hunters are kinda bad at board control, so you'll likely choose an enemy minion and keep it alive. Do you think that justifies the 4-cost, or do you still think that it's necessary that this should cost 5?

Damn, that is a hard card to evaluate now, didnt it target only friendly minions at first? It feels a little too good with the option to target the enemy minion. I suppose it is kinda like Betrayal on steroids, if u dont have the board, but not as great if u do have a board. Its kinda like Enter the Coliseum, but not rly :D i think the card is fine as it is at 4 mana, not that i would be particularly excited, if hunters had access to this, but seems like a solid card :) Pretty OP arena card as well, good its at least rare :)

Quote from SilentSecond >>

Quote from Sinti >>

Quote from SilentSecond >>

Hi ;o, i subtmitted this card with its token the other day, but aint sure if the mana cost is appropriate.

Would you use it on a n'zoth deck?

P.S: Only after submitted noticed the typo on heroe.

That is some big tempo gain with 2x 5/5 for 5 mana, tho the deathrattle might punish u hard (or not, but might). Im not sure if its balanced or not honestly. It looks kinda like big hit or miss card ... if your opponent has a minion (or more out) and has removal, he will take full advantage of deathrattle and can prepare to kill the other guy next turn and go double dmg face again ... if ur in a lead, this card will provide very good value, with very little disadvantage. U can also have quite a few of these on board with Shadow Visions.

Btw the art is rly bad, try not to use ingame screens.

Also "Void" isnt a tribe in HS, ofc u can make a new tribe, but creating it as a single example card in WDC isnt rly a good place to start, ppl dont respond to that very well.

And btw, u can repost your card in the submission post with fixed typos, that is allowed, so go ahead and fix that ;-)

And last, post smaller images ... thanks :P

 

First thanks a lot for the feedback ;o, was way more then i expected.

You made several good points, i did made the mistake thinking the card alone and not with help, so to avoid easy spam of minions i rose the card from 5 to 6 and lower the minion value to a 4 drop, rose 1 hp to help survive a bit better while lowering attack to make trades bit worse(bit better body vs aggro doh). I hope this lowers risk and reward values.

Art i was having hard time finding one that seemed like it so i kinda picked first one that had background, i hope this new one seems bit better.

The void race, seems like i totally mispredict, i thought people would like it, removed .

And lastly the image size, my bad didnt notice it would be too big resized it down hope its enough.

Once again thanks a lot ;o, i feel like a winner already just having my card commented.

3/6 is better i suppose, not as good offensively when ur ahead, not as easy to kill when ur behind, i still dont rly know if any deck would risk running this tho :) btw increasing the cost of the token is kinda pointless, since the spell summons them :D but i guess its fine as a 5-drop-ish card.

Tho the spell's wording should be tweaked a bit, something like: "Summon a Great Rift Warden and another one at the start of your next turn.", if u say "following turn" that means your opponents turn, so u would essentially got two 3/6 for 5 mana in the same turn, i dont think thats what u intended, is it?

About the art, i was talking more about the token, its better, but nothing great.

The image size could go a bit down still :D look at the spoiler in this reply ;-) (generally it's ideal to have 200x??? or 220x???, the other dimension is filled out automatically with constrain proportions ♣9).

 

Once again thank you for the awesome feedback. The mana cost part i gofted and didnt update the spell, tried to edited before anyone would notice guess was too late. Started thinking even if you drop 2 times the spell, 2 3/6 doesnt sound like much of a threat in later phases of the game, but might be conditional live saver/all in desperation move.  If any deck would use this? Might be fun to try on a N'zoth priest deck, if u manage to constant revive/maintain them, you might end up swarming your opponent ;o. On the other hand even if your ahead, an aoe removal can still even the odds. I always liked deathlord, on how it could be good or terrible and had to make you think ;o.

And yes by following turn i meant the hero who used the spell, thanks for linguistics correction. Finally i hope i got the image size right this time;p put it 200*272.  

Well i guess thats it, thanks for all the feedback until next time ;o, oh and +1 on your replies if that matters

Quote from SilentSecond >>

@sinti

Done ;o just wanted to be sure everything was fine before editing.

Now my turn ;o, i have a curiosity what happens if this affects cards like Jaraxxus,  i assume it will only put him immune when he is a minion;o. Another example is malganis(wild i know but still), if he is immune so is your hero. But i guess this kinda applies to most immune suggested cards. So ;o maybe it only becoming immune for 1 turn would be better?You could even lower the cost as the effect ain't as strong. Hope this helps

P.S: I apologise ;x if im not suppost to comment on stuff.

Quote from NOVEX0R >>

 

Ok, so iv been through all he submissions and there r some rly good ones, im excited to see the finalists this week, i think i will have more positive reviews :D

I also saw, that noone did the effect i originally tinkered with yet, so im gonna go with it. I know many ppl here said, that it would be too OP and they didnt like it, so i nerfed it from original 8/8 for 8 mana to 7/7 for 10 mana, which makes it super heavy to play and not the best play u can do with 10 mana that would have an immediate impact, so that im my eyes should balance it.

Its aimed at big control decks. The point is obviously to get value from pretty much any target it hits, but even the nightmare scenarios, where it would land on something like Ragnaros the Firelord, it would be ok, since a 10-cost card (with a significantly delayed impact mind u) would help u win the game and that is what 10-cost cards should do imho, they should actively help u win the game (tho not necessarily on the spot, hence the delayed impact of this card). Im quite happy with its current state, mby u will like it now, mby not, cheers :)

 I like it, tho it doesn't has that "wow" in it. Something that will make people vote for it. The card seems balanced, even bad in my opinion (talking about meta)! But I see a lot of people like 10 mana legendaries, just not me. You can go with it, but in your place I would make something else. But hey, just personal opinion :P

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Quote from TheProgenitor >>

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Welp, any thoughts on the balancing for this? This is quite difficult to balance...

 I feel like it should cost at least 5. With only a 3-Attack minion - which shouldn't be too hard to have - the damage alone is on level with Volcanic Potion and Consecration, with the added bonus that the targeted minion is safe and can trade safely after. This is also Hunter AoE, which there is very little of, so it needs to be kind of situational so as to not be used in nearly every Hunter deck (like how they handled Leeching Poison).

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm kinda on the fence with Punching Spree's cost being either 4 or 5. On one hand, Punching Spree is an AoE in Hunter, and Hunters aren't supposed to be good at AoE (the only AoE cards in Hunter is Deathstalker Rexxar and Explosive Trap); also, the 5-cost Brawl exists. On the other hand, I compared it to Betrayal, which doesn't see any play; also, Hunters are kinda bad at board control, so you'll likely choose an enemy minion and keep it alive. Do you think that justifies the 4-cost, or do you still think that it's necessary that this should cost 5?

Quote from AxletheBeast >>

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Quote from TheProgenitor >>

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Welp, any thoughts on the balancing for this? This is quite difficult to balance...

 I feel like it should cost at least 5. With only a 3-Attack minion - which shouldn't be too hard to have - the damage alone is on level with Volcanic Potion and Consecration, with the added bonus that the targeted minion is safe and can trade safely after. This is also Hunter AoE, which there is very little of, so it needs to be kind of situational so as to not be used in nearly every Hunter deck (like how they handled Leeching Poison).

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm kinda on the fence with Punching Spree's cost being either 4 or 5. On one hand, Punching Spree is an AoE in Hunter, and Hunters aren't supposed to be good at AoE (the only AoE cards in Hunter is Deathstalker Rexxar and Explosive Trap); also, the 5-cost Brawl exists. On the other hand, I compared it to Betrayal, which doesn't see any play; also, Hunters are kinda bad at board control, so you'll likely choose an enemy minion and keep it alive. Do you think that justifies the 4-cost, or do you still think that it's necessary that this should cost 5?

 I might be wrong in saying this, but I might argue the better comparison point rather than Betrayal or Brawl is actually Swamp King Dred, which if I understand it right doesn't see any play. One targets an existing board, the other targets minions played after. Dred is weak because he's too easy to remove. This is stronger (comparatively, for its mana cost) because it grants the target Immune, meaning Poisonous doesn't kill it.

The way to figure out if it's balanced for its cost is to ask how many classes can remove a 3-drop or lower for 3 mana or less. I can't think off the top of my head how many can, but for example Mages can do so very, very easily, and actually so can Rogues. I think it's okay to cost it 4 if there's a good balance among the classes of "can destroy a 3-drop easily/can do it moderately easily/has trouble doing it" so long as any class technically COULD, but I think that's basically always true since they might still have a minion out to kill it.

That way there's effective counterplay; remove minions. Since as you said Hunter is a little weak on controlling the board unless they get Houndmaster, I think the 4-cost, while potentially powerful, is probably fair. Keep in might this card hurts aggro bad and aggro decks generally do well in the current state of the game, or at least up until recently, but then again Hunter is doing well now too haha.

Quote from Sinti >>

Quote from AxletheBeast >>

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Quote from TheProgenitor >>

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Welp, any thoughts on the balancing for this? This is quite difficult to balance...

 I feel like it should cost at least 5. With only a 3-Attack minion - which shouldn't be too hard to have - the damage alone is on level with Volcanic Potion and Consecration, with the added bonus that the targeted minion is safe and can trade safely after. This is also Hunter AoE, which there is very little of, so it needs to be kind of situational so as to not be used in nearly every Hunter deck (like how they handled Leeching Poison).

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm kinda on the fence with Punching Spree's cost being either 4 or 5. On one hand, Punching Spree is an AoE in Hunter, and Hunters aren't supposed to be good at AoE (the only AoE cards in Hunter is Deathstalker Rexxar and Explosive Trap); also, the 5-cost Brawl exists. On the other hand, I compared it to Betrayal, which doesn't see any play; also, Hunters are kinda bad at board control, so you'll likely choose an enemy minion and keep it alive. Do you think that justifies the 4-cost, or do you still think that it's necessary that this should cost 5?

 I might be wrong in saying this, but I might argue the better comparison point rather than Betrayal or Brawl is actually Swamp King Dred, which if I understand it right doesn't see any play. One targets an existing board, the other targets minions played after. Dred is weak because he's too easy to remove. This is stronger (comparatively, for its mana cost) because it grants the target Immune, meaning Poisonous doesn't kill it.

The way to figure out if it's balanced for its cost is to ask how many classes can remove a 3-drop or lower for 3 mana or less. I can't think off the top of my head how many can, but for example Mages can do so very, very easily, and actually so can Rogues. I think it's okay to cost it 4 if there's a good balance among the classes of "can destroy a 3-drop easily/can do it moderately easily/has trouble doing it" so long as any class technically COULD, but I think that's basically always true since they might still have a minion out to kill it.

That way there's effective counterplay; remove minions. Since as you said Hunter is a little weak on controlling the board unless they get Houndmaster, I think the 4-cost, while potentially powerful, is probably fair. Keep in might this card hurts aggro bad and aggro decks generally do well in the current state of the game, or at least up until recently, but then again Hunter is doing well now too haha.

Lol how can u compare an immediate AOE effect to playin a minion, that doesnt impact the board in the same turn. i agree that Punching Spree is most likely fine at 4 mana, but that comparison ... rofl :P

Quote from AxletheBeast >>

Quote from Sinti >>

Quote from AxletheBeast >>

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Quote from TheProgenitor >>

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Welp, any thoughts on the balancing for this? This is quite difficult to balance...

 I feel like it should cost at least 5. With only a 3-Attack minion - which shouldn't be too hard to have - the damage alone is on level with Volcanic Potion and Consecration, with the added bonus that the targeted minion is safe and can trade safely after. This is also Hunter AoE, which there is very little of, so it needs to be kind of situational so as to not be used in nearly every Hunter deck (like how they handled Leeching Poison).

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm kinda on the fence with Punching Spree's cost being either 4 or 5. On one hand, Punching Spree is an AoE in Hunter, and Hunters aren't supposed to be good at AoE (the only AoE cards in Hunter is Deathstalker Rexxar and Explosive Trap); also, the 5-cost Brawl exists. On the other hand, I compared it to Betrayal, which doesn't see any play; also, Hunters are kinda bad at board control, so you'll likely choose an enemy minion and keep it alive. Do you think that justifies the 4-cost, or do you still think that it's necessary that this should cost 5?

 I might be wrong in saying this, but I might argue the better comparison point rather than Betrayal or Brawl is actually Swamp King Dred, which if I understand it right doesn't see any play. One targets an existing board, the other targets minions played after. Dred is weak because he's too easy to remove. This is stronger (comparatively, for its mana cost) because it grants the target Immune, meaning Poisonous doesn't kill it.

The way to figure out if it's balanced for its cost is to ask how many classes can remove a 3-drop or lower for 3 mana or less. I can't think off the top of my head how many can, but for example Mages can do so very, very easily, and actually so can Rogues. I think it's okay to cost it 4 if there's a good balance among the classes of "can destroy a 3-drop easily/can do it moderately easily/has trouble doing it" so long as any class technically COULD, but I think that's basically always true since they might still have a minion out to kill it.

That way there's effective counterplay; remove minions. Since as you said Hunter is a little weak on controlling the board unless they get Houndmaster, I think the 4-cost, while potentially powerful, is probably fair. Keep in might this card hurts aggro bad and aggro decks generally do well in the current state of the game, or at least up until recently, but then again Hunter is doing well now too haha.

Lol how can u compare an immediate AOE effect to playin a minion, that doesnt impact the board in the same turn. i agree that Punching Spree is most likely fine at 4 mana, but that comparison ... rofl :P

 Because they are functionally the same effect -- "This minion attacks multiple minions" -- just with different parameters. Dred attacks ones that come out after, Punching Spree attacks ones already out. Both also rely on a pre-summoned minion being out and not destroyed before the effect can happen, and both are improved by buffs to that minion. Although I will admit when I typed that I had forgotten you could target an opponent's minion with Cogito's card, so it's definitely less apt then (which I already agreed with by saying the Brawl comparison was more applicable there). But I still think the comparison works. Sorry you don't? =/

Quote from Sinti >>

No, i dont agree, the comparison is way off. The only similarity is that they "attack" the minions in question, but thats just wording, to make it fit this weeks theme and give it good flavor, which is fine, its done well, but it has no actual meaning for comparison with Swamp King Dred. The Punching Spree could have easilly read "Give a minion Immune this turn and deal its Attack damage to all minions."  (i know it wouldnt work with Poisonous/Lifesteal etc this way, but thats beside the point for the argument im trying to make). It is an immediate AOE effect, no matter the need for preparation, the important aspect of it is, that it will deal dmg to the existing board when it is played. Swamp King Dred doesnt impact the board when played and can be cleared before it ever will, it is a pseudo removal effect (not even an AOE rly) that is highly unreliable and thats why its not played.

Quote from AxletheBeast >>

Quote from Sinti >>

No, i dont agree, the comparison is way off. The only similarity is that they "attack" the minions in question, but thats just wording, to make it fit this weeks theme and give it good flavor, which is fine, its done well, but it has no actual meaning for comparison with Swamp King Dred. The Punching Spree could have easilly read "Give a minion Immune this turn and deal its Attack damage to all minions."  (i know it wouldnt work with Poisonous/Lifesteal etc this way, but thats beside the point for the argument im trying to make). It is an immediate AOE effect, no matter the need for preparation, the important aspect of it is, that it will deal dmg to the existing board when it is played. Swamp King Dred doesnt impact the board when played and can be cleared before it ever will, it is a pseudo removal effect (not even an AOE rly) that is highly unreliable and thats why its not played.

 Even if it did have that wording, it would still involve a minion doing its damage to other minions, and I still consider that similar enough in spirit at the very least to draw the comparison. Swamp King Dred IS removal of a kind, as is this, so they serve at least tangentially similar purposes as well, and while Dred is not "AoE", it is "kill multiple enemy minions" when played correctly. I'm not really interested in discussing this further since you clearly completely disagree and I already conceded that the Brawl comparison was better when the full functionality of Cogito's card is kept in mind. I don't really see why my comparison to Dred bothers you so much though.

Quote from nurgling13 >>

You're all wrong. Punching Spree's effect is most similar to Shadowflame. But, since Punching Spree gives the minion Immune instead of killing it, and it has the versatility of being able to target enemy minions, it should cost more. The fact that it hits your minions doesn't make up for these bonuses.

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Wow, I uh, didn't expect this much discussion about my card. XD Thanks you guys! Love ya'll!

Here's my take on it. When compared to Betrayal (which is also found in a class with bad AoE btw), it seems reasonable at 4 mana. You sacrifice your own board, and I think that it's worth it.

Quote from nurgling13>>

You're all wrong. Punching Spree's effect is most similar to Shadowflame. But, since Punching Spree gives the minion Immune instead of killing it, and it has the versatility of being able to target enemy minions, it should cost more. The fact that it hits your minions doesn't make up for these bonuses.

I think you ironically brought up a key point that goes against your argument. Let's think about this practically. Ideally, you cast the spell on your opponent's highest Attack minion. However, since you gave it Immune, you have to pay the price of guaranteeing that your opponent's strongest minion survives until their turn. That in addition to the fact that it damages your own board in Hunter (which isn't good at establishing strong board presence atm) alone proves that it should cost 4.

Okay, so let's say we cast this on our own minion. Here's the thing. The Immune only matters in the spell's effect. You cannot attack with the minion after you casted the spell on it because "that minion already attacked this turn", so the Immune is virtually useless for anything but the board wipe; you could still attack with the minion before you cast the spell, but you wouldn't benefit from the Immune.

Regardless, your comparison to Shadowflame is fair. However, Hunter is currently the least played class. it could use a little boost in the Midrange/Control archetype no?

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Quote from AxletheBeast >>

Nice using the Savage Punch art by the way. =P

Thanks! It's my favourite MTG art! :)

Also, it came from one of my favourite sets! My favourite MTG sets have to do with colour combinations. Khans of Tarkir, Shards of Alara, Ravnica, and Return to Ravnica are my jam! I wonder if they're ever gonna do 4-colour combinations...they did it with Commander 2016.

Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

Quote from nurgling13 >>

Quote from Demonxz95 >>

Quote from nurgling13 >>

You're all wrong. Punching Spree's effect is most similar to Shadowflame. But, since Punching Spree gives the minion Immune instead of killing it, and it has the versatility of being able to target enemy minions, it should cost more. The fact that it hits your minions doesn't make up for these bonuses.

Counterpoint: One of Hunter's advantages is board swarming, so a two-sided AoE could be considered to be weaker in Hunter. Quite frankly, I also struggle to see any situation where targeting an enemy minion is any better than targeting your own.

 A scenario where you have no minions out and your opponent has a bunch, including a cheap minion with Poisonous (e.g., Stubborn Gastropod). 

That seems like a very rare scenario since Poisonous minions aren't really being played that much. Nonetheless, I digress.

In your purposed situation, you've guaranteed that the Poisonous minion will survive until your next turn and will kill any minion you put out. As I've stated earlier, the problem with targeting an enemy minion (besides the fact that you've wiped out your board) is that you're giving it Immune. You'll likely target the enemy's strongest minion, and since you gave it Immune, you have guaranteed that your opponent's strongest minion will survive until their next turn.

Also, if you choose a friendly minion, the "Immune" doesn't do much except let it live through the spell's effect. You can't attack with a minion after you've cast Punching Spree on it because "that minion already attacked this turn". However, you can attack with a minion before you cast the spell on it, but it doesn't benefit from the Immune on its first attack.