How did this card make it through testing and not be seen as potentially abuse-able? Just had a Paladin playMysterious Challenger on curve, which proc-ed FIVE secrets all for 6 mana. a 6/6 and 5 secrets for 6 mana. Wow! Stupid! The card should have been named Mysteriously Mad Challenger.
Because Mad Scientist wasn't already one of the most powerful cards in the game. Lets give 1 class the ability to thin his deck by instantly grabbing cards from his deck and cast them for free while also placing a 6/6 on the board, with no chance to Silence the effect.
There is no counter-play in Chess either, but at least they they are limited to 1 action per turn. Hearthstone's lack of counter-play can be down right a very poor design flaw.
Except that before this card literally no one was playing paladin secrets - unlike hunter and and mage, paladin secrets were considered too much of a waste of space in a deck to be worth taking up slots - even with mad scientist. If it bothers you that much play mid-hunter with flares.
be happy mysterios challenger pulls out only 1mana secrets.. this guy in mage or hunter is way more unfair. i like him in paladin.. makes stupid pala secrets cool and useful
It's not just that. Statistically you will be drawing secrets from your deck before you can play the [card]Mysterious Challenger [/card]. Usually you'd rather have something else instead.
Moreover, if you want to get the [card]Mysterious Challenger [/card] consistently on about turn 6 you would want to run 2 of these. But the second one would almost always be of low value.
The cards have consistency issues as on average they lose value as the game goes on (and you're drawing secrets). They don't hold the same value being drawn in the first 5-10 turns as in the last 5.
Looking at 1 instance doesn't teach us enough about the card, its overall performance does. It's a strong one no doubt, we'll see if it's strong enough as people adapt to this deck.
Except that before this card literally no one was playing paladin secrets - unlike hunter and and mage, paladin secrets were considered too much of a waste of space in a deck to be worth taking up slots - even with mad scientist. If it bothers you that much play mid-hunter with flares.
Never! ;) Way to go for the obvious advice there bud. Thanks! **Friendly elbow to the ribs**
The only reason Mysterious Challenger is doing so well is because it's still early, and most (Not all) players are still having a rough time assuming what secrets are in the deck, that being said IF they haven't already pulled their secrets, and get to actually use him (I've watched first hand misplays of him A LOT lately), they're going to pull something like:
IF THAT DOESN'T TRIGGER follow the next step, however, if it does, they'll have wastedRedemption on a defender generated by sacrifice, the only down side is that it might boost their best minion, probably Challenger, so BEFORE YOU GO TRIGGERING all these secrets make sure you have an answer for a boosted Challenger. (Equality, Consecration, Wild Pyromancer, Polymorph, Siphon Soul, etc.)
If possible, kill their biggest minion, that way if they have Avenge, it'll boost a smaller minion, and not make an unstoppable giant. (But realize if they have Redemption, you'll need a back up to kill it AGAIN.)
Complicated? Yes. Unstoppable? No.
*Note: I've only had one cup of coffee so far today, so bare with me if I'm not fully awake.
this shit is broken twice more than highmane on curve. I thought tgt was made to slow meta down, not to born another retarded cancer loving kids FeelsBadMan patron punishes you for having board, eboladin punishes you for having cards. Gj on nerfing leeroy blizz, you know what balance is
However, TGT also added Competitive Spirit, a paladin secret that's finally not a common and I think that kind of skews the whole position of "well paladin secrets are crap so it's okay."
The sheer amount of boosting a challenger brings drives me nuts, though that could also be me being salty I don't play the one class with a solid anti-secret card.
^ You could entirely be right, I just know it's a pain to clear a board when you have Avenge, Sacrifice and Redemption slowing down your clear.
Killing one thing (and the attacker that triggers the defender doesn't count xP) just trips avenge and boosts something, making the next harder to kill. And you don't want to start with the challenger in case they have redemption as well.
I guess it depends on what your board looked like beforehand, but especially in the newly popular token deck there's usually plenty of bodies to get the boost.
^ You could entirely be right, I just know it's a pain to clear a board when you have Avenge, Sacrifice and Redemption slowing down your clear.
Killing one thing (and the attacker that triggers the defender doesn't count xP) just trips avenge and boosts something, making the next harder to kill. And you don't want to start with the challenger in case they have redemption as well.
I guess it depends on what your board looked like beforehand, but especially in the newly popular token deck there's usually plenty of bodies to get the boost.
Valid, but wouldn't the chance of the Challenger (edit) being 9/8 worse than buffing a smaller minion, and dealing with a 6/1?
Because Mad Scientist wasn't already one of the most powerful cards in the game. Lets give 1 class the ability to thin his deck by instantly grabbing cards from his deck and cast them for free while also placing a 6/6 on the board, with no chance to Silence the effect.
I agree that Mysterious Challenger is OP. There are entire decks designed around him despite Paladin secrets being garbage! At least Blizzard will be less reluctant to nerf him because he doesn't come out of a money-grubbing adventure like Mad Scientist.
I get the feeling that Blizzard wants to make secrets relevant; but, don't know how to do it well. Secrets in Hearthstone are always either so underwhelming (when played from the hand) or overwhelming (when played free for you). Poor game design like Fusion cards from Yugioh!
That Secret Pala deck is not even that great. im almost confused why so many people jump this train its so far worse than patron, control wari, handlock.
Paladin secrets are coutered with ease and most secrets remain bad, its like a card thats puts 6 bad cards from your deck into play and forces you to play 12 bad cards in your deck total. You end up so easy in topdeck only drawing bad secrets.
That deck and the chellenger are absolutely balanced. Im happy to see those cards used in a creative way.
I feel that Mysterious Challenger is not really OP, since the secrets it gives aren't even that good aside from Avenge. The secrets for Paladin are only 1 mana-cost so the value isn't that great. Also, think about it, if you are running all those secrets in your deck, the consistency of your deck becomes ridiculously bad. Let's say you start off with 2 or maybe even 3 secrets? What good would it do? The only good scenario is when you don't draw any of your secrets. Since the 1/6 of the deck is secrets, you probably won't get 5 secrets from this card.
However I do feel that if Mysterious Challenger is pulled out of Unstable Portal for mages, then it would be pretty insane because it can bring out Effigy and Mirror Entity a 6 mana value that are great, but of course the probability of this happening is quite slim.
How did this card make it through testing and not be seen as potentially abuse-able? Just had a Paladin playMysterious Challenger on curve, which proc-ed FIVE secrets all for 6 mana. a 6/6 and 5 secrets for 6 mana. Wow! Stupid! The card should have been named Mysteriously Mad Challenger.
Because Mad Scientist wasn't already one of the most powerful cards in the game. Lets give 1 class the ability to thin his deck by instantly grabbing cards from his deck and cast them for free while also placing a 6/6 on the board, with no chance to Silence the effect.
There is no counter-play in Chess either, but at least they they are limited to 1 action per turn. Hearthstone's lack of counter-play can be down right a very poor design flaw.
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.
Except that before this card literally no one was playing paladin secrets - unlike hunter and and mage, paladin secrets were considered too much of a waste of space in a deck to be worth taking up slots - even with mad scientist. If it bothers you that much play mid-hunter with flares.
be happy mysterios challenger pulls out only 1mana secrets.. this guy in mage or hunter is way more unfair. i like him in paladin.. makes stupid pala secrets cool and useful
btw counter is Flare
Time is money, friend.
The counter is the opportunity cost of all those paladin secrets in your deck.
But, I think it's very cool you got to see 5 secrets dumped with him. That's like seeing a falling star. You should be happy.
Galavant Animation
I woudln't say 6/6 for 6 is horrible. Subpar maybe.
6/3 for 6, now that's horrible.
Galavant Animation
It's not just that. Statistically you will be drawing secrets from your deck before you can play the [card]Mysterious Challenger [/card]. Usually you'd rather have something else instead.
Moreover, if you want to get the [card]Mysterious Challenger [/card] consistently on about turn 6 you would want to run 2 of these. But the second one would almost always be of low value.
The cards have consistency issues as on average they lose value as the game goes on (and you're drawing secrets). They don't hold the same value being drawn in the first 5-10 turns as in the last 5.
Looking at 1 instance doesn't teach us enough about the card, its overall performance does. It's a strong one no doubt, we'll see if it's strong enough as people adapt to this deck.
Never! ;) Way to go for the obvious advice there bud. Thanks! **Friendly elbow to the ribs**
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.
The only reason Mysterious Challenger is doing so well is because it's still early, and most (Not all) players are still having a rough time assuming what secrets are in the deck, that being said IF they haven't already pulled their secrets, and get to actually use him (I've watched first hand misplays of him A LOT lately), they're going to pull something like:
Avenge, Competitive Spirit, Noble Sacrifice, AND/OR Redemption, Repentance (These are the most worthwhile)
That's a huge stack, but if you break it down it's totally counterable.
Complicated? Yes. Unstoppable? No.
*Note: I've only had one cup of coffee so far today, so bare with me if I'm not fully awake.
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this shit is broken twice more than highmane on curve. I thought tgt was made to slow meta down, not to born another retarded cancer loving kids FeelsBadMan patron punishes you for having board, eboladin punishes you for having cards. Gj on nerfing leeroy blizz, you know what balance is
Yeah, Avenge and Noble Sacrifice were pretty much the only paladin secrets used before Mysterious Challenger.
However, TGT also added Competitive Spirit, a paladin secret that's finally not a common and I think that kind of skews the whole position of "well paladin secrets are crap so it's okay."
The sheer amount of boosting a challenger brings drives me nuts, though that could also be me being salty I don't play the one class with a solid anti-secret card.
^ You could entirely be right, I just know it's a pain to clear a board when you have Avenge, Sacrifice and Redemption slowing down your clear.
Killing one thing (and the attacker that triggers the defender doesn't count xP) just trips avenge and boosts something, making the next harder to kill. And you don't want to start with the challenger in case they have redemption as well.
I guess it depends on what your board looked like beforehand, but especially in the newly popular token deck there's usually plenty of bodies to get the boost.
I'm playing a anti-secret hunter just for this occassion. 2 Flares and 2 Kezan Mystics. Paladins be like " WTF???"
I wonder what his reaction was when i Flared all 5 of his secrets after he brought thhem out with mysterious challenger. Not so mysterious after all.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
Valid, but wouldn't the chance of the Challenger (edit) being 9/8 worse than buffing a smaller minion, and dealing with a 6/1?
(Thinking out loud, kinda.)
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I agree that Mysterious Challenger is OP. There are entire decks designed around him despite Paladin secrets being garbage! At least Blizzard will be less reluctant to nerf him because he doesn't come out of a money-grubbing adventure like Mad Scientist.
I get the feeling that Blizzard wants to make secrets relevant; but, don't know how to do it well. Secrets in Hearthstone are always either so underwhelming (when played from the hand) or overwhelming (when played free for you). Poor game design like Fusion cards from Yugioh!
That Secret Pala deck is not even that great. im almost confused why so many people jump this train its so far worse than patron, control wari, handlock.
Paladin secrets are coutered with ease and most secrets remain bad, its like a card thats puts 6 bad cards from your deck into play and forces you to play 12 bad cards in your deck total. You end up so easy in topdeck only drawing bad secrets.
That deck and the chellenger are absolutely balanced. Im happy to see those cards used in a creative way.
maybe not so pissed he just thinned his deck by 5 cards.. that's something.
The card is obviously broken. with its effect it needs to be a 5/5 or worse. 6/6 is too much
I've tried playing control Warrior, with Deathlords and 2x brawls, secret paladin has not been an issue ever since.
Release the Kraken!
I feel that Mysterious Challenger is not really OP, since the secrets it gives aren't even that good aside from Avenge. The secrets for Paladin are only 1 mana-cost so the value isn't that great. Also, think about it, if you are running all those secrets in your deck, the consistency of your deck becomes ridiculously bad. Let's say you start off with 2 or maybe even 3 secrets? What good would it do? The only good scenario is when you don't draw any of your secrets. Since the 1/6 of the deck is secrets, you probably won't get 5 secrets from this card.
However I do feel that if Mysterious Challenger is pulled out of Unstable Portal for mages, then it would be pretty insane because it can bring out Effigy and Mirror Entity a 6 mana value that are great, but of course the probability of this happening is quite slim.
im so happy my main class is paladin, and i just love mysterious challenger! :) so, that being sad, i dont think he's OP