In Standard all the highlander cards are mostly worthless because of the prevalence of Bomb Warrior. In Wild though, those cards should rock.
When I saw Priest's quest I was very optimistic for the class. Then when everything else was revealed I worried that overall there was too much power creep and Priest may still be struggling in Standard.
Taunt Warrior, especially with the old quest Fire Plume's Heart, will probably be revived in Wild. Not sure how good it will be in Standard.
And I believe the most powerful card of the expansion is Plague of Murlocs. It will have an impact in both Standard and Wild.
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While I've given this set a lot of thought - I didn't pour over the ratings like I usual do. Therefore, there may be some internal inconsistency. But keep in mind, the difference between a 2 & 3 and a 3 & 4 is really nitpicky and not as wide a gap as it may seem.
Also, everything is rated for standard ladder. I didn't consider Wild. I didn't consider Specialist (RIP) or whatever the new format is called (Shield? Paragon?). Just good ol' standard ladder.
Also, please excuse the formatting problems. I'm trying to iron them out.
For me (I've been playing Hearthstone since Whispers of the Old Gods) this expansion is one of the most I've been excited about in a long, long time.
That could possibly be as I loved League of Explorers but I really like the characters and flavour of this expansion, the power level is nuts and there are some super fun decks I want to try. Specifically highlander Hunter and Pally, and Thief Rogue - I have played a lot of Thief Rogue since Witchwood and it just keeps getting good cards.
First pre-order bundle I've purchased since Witchwood, can't wait till next week.
I imagine that in a deck playing Mass Resurrection, you probably want to control your Resurrect pool so that you're hitting things like Vargoth, big taunts, etc. Phaoris makes that pool inconsistent.
But, maybe there's a very fatigue oriented Priest that doesn't run Mass Resurrection or Cloning Gallery, but still plays Plauge and Mind Control along with Elysiana and the Quest. It could have a home there.
I imagine that in a deck playing Mass Resurrection, you probably want to control your Resurrect pool so that you're hitting things like Vargoth, big taunts, etc. Phaoris makes that pool inconsistent.
But, maybe there's a very fatigue oriented Priest that doesn't run Mass Resurrection or Cloning Gallery, but still plays Plauge and Mind Control along with Elysiana and the Quest. It could have a home there.
I just think King Phaoris is an interesting card and has potential.
Being a Priest player, almost exclusively, I would agree that Priest did get a shit done of value, I don't think there's a bad card in the lot. Having said that, I think it will take a while for Priest to emerge/break through the current meta.
I can see at leat three possible routes:
A solid midrange deck, zoo to start, control the board with sticky minions and Arms, shuffle a bunch of cards back into your deck via Spirit of the Dead, Surrender to Madness and Quest Hero power for the late game.
A better Resurrect deck with Blatant Decoy, Penance, Holy Ripple.
A OTK/cycle deck with High Priest Amet, Stonetusk Boar, Divine, Divine, Innerfire/topsy for 28 damage, adding chip damage with reborn and things like mech bombs or Kobold Sandtrooper, and the usual pyro, acolyte, northshire, circle shenanigans
And I would think that the Quest will be used in almost all Priest decks.
My guess is that the zoo/midrange or OTK/Amet stuff will win out, especially because I think there's overlap between the two.
I didn't think of the Blatant Decoy use in Resurrect Priest. It's a pretty interesting idea to go bigger that way - almost like Shadow Essence. But your resurrect pool starts getting cloudy with Decoys, which is problematic.
As you know i can only talk about Paladin , i generally agree with your rating although i would have given Pharaoh's Blessing and Subdue (remember that 2 mana card that could set a minions attack and HP to 3/3? just imagine on a 1 drop... but even that card didnt saw any play) both a 1.
I bet next expansion Blizzard will push Murlocs so Tip the scale could create an Archetype, but for now its dust..
What i am really unsure about is a aggro Highlander deck. Zalae thinks its the s..t, but to be honest i have some serious doubts. Priest got very good anti aggro tools. Rogue got a one drop they will play until it rotates out, and a quest that makes them immune to damage. Shaman got this guy Sandstorm Elemental Warrior doesnt care anyways . If Mage decides to go for secrets they are also good vs aggro , but eventually Giants should be superior? No idea about the rest but aggro Paladin for sure doesnt have an easy time.
Personally, I think you are greatly underestimating Zephrys the Great. Not only is it really good in thief rogue (guaranteed board clear + Tess interaction) ... I think it has a lot of "playmaker" abilities.
Personally, I think you are greatly underestimating Zephrys the Great. Not only is it really good in thief rogue (guaranteed board clear + Tess interaction) ... I think it has a lot of "playmaker" abilities.
Wait - so you're talking about a Highlander Rogue deck, with Zeph being the only payoff?
In actual highlander decks, I just don't think plays the right role. It appears to be an average stabilization tool, but I'm not sure it's providing more beyond that. By comparison, I think Reno and Kazakus were providing massive stabilization. Reno was almost reset the game - and Kazakus seemed to be better offensively.
Now, maybe Zeph is better - we'll find out through playtesting. But so far, I'm not getting the win condition vibe that we I got from cards like Reno, Kazakus, Raza, or that fat demon dude who was bad but was a win condition of sorts. It feels more like Solia.
Personally, I think you are greatly underestimating Zephrys the Great. Not only is it really good in thief rogue (guaranteed board clear + Tess interaction) ... I think it has a lot of "playmaker" abilities.
Wait - so you're talking about a Highlander Rogue deck, with Zeph being the only payoff?
In actual highlander decks, I just don't think plays the right role. It appears to be an average stabilization tool, but I'm not sure it's providing more beyond that. By comparison, I think Reno and Kazakus were providing massive stabilization. Reno was almost reset the game - and Kazakus seemed to be better offensively.
Now, maybe Zeph is better - we'll find out through playtesting. But so far, I'm not getting the win condition vibe that we I got from cards like Reno, Kazakus, Raza, or that fat demon dude who was bad but was a win condition of sorts. It feels more like Solia.
It SEEMS like it has potential to give you a free "now you win card" and turn the tide. Obviously this depends on the AI, but it seems potentially strong (and downright annoying to play against). With so many ways to generate cards and great card draw tools, Highlander Rogue might be doable (admittedly, I am not an expert theorycrafter and usually play more memey stuff for fun) ... though a good hero card for rogue would help here ...
Bomb warrior and bomb shuffling is the main concern for any high lander deck. The last time highlander was a thing, only a niche rogue card could really shut it down ... now everyone has the ability to tech against and shut down every highlander deck. So we shall see!
Personally, I think you are greatly underestimating Zephrys the Great. Not only is it really good in thief rogue (guaranteed board clear + Tess interaction) ... I think it has a lot of "playmaker" abilities.
Wait - so you're talking about a Highlander Rogue deck, with Zeph being the only payoff?
In actual highlander decks, I just don't think plays the right role. It appears to be an average stabilization tool, but I'm not sure it's providing more beyond that. By comparison, I think Reno and Kazakus were providing massive stabilization. Reno was almost reset the game - and Kazakus seemed to be better offensively.
Now, maybe Zeph is better - we'll find out through playtesting. But so far, I'm not getting the win condition vibe that we I got from cards like Reno, Kazakus, Raza, or that fat demon dude who was bad but was a win condition of sorts. It feels more like Solia.
It SEEMS like it has potential to give you a free "now you win card" and turn the tide. Obviously this depends on the AI, but it seems potentially strong (and downright annoying to play against). With so many ways to generate cards and great card draw tools, Highlander Rogue might be doable (admittedly, I am not an expert theorycrafter and usually play more memey stuff for fun) ... though a good hero card for rogue would help here ...
Bomb warrior and bomb shuffling is the main concern for any high lander deck. The last time highlander was a thing, only a niche rogue card could really shut it down ... now everyone has the ability to tech against and shut down every highlander deck. So we shall see!
I think a Highlander Battlecry Shaman deck has a chance. Getting double the Zephrys the Great effects can be game breaking. But I am also concerned with the Bomb decks because if these highlander decks start becoming a thing, Bomb/Control Warrior don't need to modify their deck much to make your highlander cards have no payoff and stop functioning.
That's the thing with Zephrys, some people might be jamming into decks that have no business being highlander. But can this card carry a singleton deck that has only 1 payoff? I don't think so.
From the perspective of "you don't always have to play the best deck for every class" I think the warrior quest is underrated. The new hero power seems on par with booms if not better. And the two decks are very different. Honestly, tempo warrior is already doing fine. Good against token druid, good against mech hunter... nobody plays it, no, but more people should/ could This quest gives good incentive to do so in my opinion.
The main reason I think this quest might fail is because the rogue quest pretty much counters it directly.
In Standard all the highlander cards are mostly worthless because of the prevalence of Bomb Warrior. In Wild though, those cards should rock.
When I saw Priest's quest I was very optimistic for the class. Then when everything else was revealed I worried that overall there was too much power creep and Priest may still be struggling in Standard.
Taunt Warrior, especially with the old quest Fire Plume's Heart, will probably be revived in Wild. Not sure how good it will be in Standard.
And I believe the most powerful card of the expansion is Plague of Murlocs. It will have an impact in both Standard and Wild.
Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
Now updated with "ratings!"
While I've given this set a lot of thought - I didn't pour over the ratings like I usual do. Therefore, there may be some internal inconsistency. But keep in mind, the difference between a 2 & 3 and a 3 & 4 is really nitpicky and not as wide a gap as it may seem.
Also, everything is rated for standard ladder. I didn't consider Wild. I didn't consider Specialist (RIP) or whatever the new format is called (Shield? Paragon?). Just good ol' standard ladder.
Also, please excuse the formatting problems. I'm trying to iron them out.
For me (I've been playing Hearthstone since Whispers of the Old Gods) this expansion is one of the most I've been excited about in a long, long time.
That could possibly be as I loved League of Explorers but I really like the characters and flavour of this expansion, the power level is nuts and there are some super fun decks I want to try. Specifically highlander Hunter and Pally, and Thief Rogue - I have played a lot of Thief Rogue since Witchwood and it just keeps getting good cards.
First pre-order bundle I've purchased since Witchwood, can't wait till next week.
What are your thoughts with King Phaoris with Priest?
Priest has some huge spells such as Mass Resurrection, Zerek's Cloning Gallery, Mind Control, and Plague of Death. These spells are all solid and see play in Priest decks. Depending on the spells in your hand, King Phaoris could summon 2-5 huge minions.
I imagine that in a deck playing Mass Resurrection, you probably want to control your Resurrect pool so that you're hitting things like Vargoth, big taunts, etc. Phaoris makes that pool inconsistent.
But, maybe there's a very fatigue oriented Priest that doesn't run Mass Resurrection or Cloning Gallery, but still plays Plauge and Mind Control along with Elysiana and the Quest. It could have a home there.
I just think King Phaoris is an interesting card and has potential.
Good luck trying to survive until turn 10 with standard control Priest!!
There are better options for priest in the current set, but none for a control deck, IMO.
I'm really eager to see the deathrattle/reborn shenanigans with the new quest!!
My guess is that the zoo/midrange or OTK/Amet stuff will win out, especially because I think there's overlap between the two.
I didn't think of the Blatant Decoy use in Resurrect Priest. It's a pretty interesting idea to go bigger that way - almost like Shadow Essence. But your resurrect pool starts getting cloudy with Decoys, which is problematic.
Good job Ben^^.
As you know i can only talk about Paladin , i generally agree with your rating although i would have given Pharaoh's Blessing and Subdue (remember that 2 mana card that could set a minions attack and HP to 3/3? just imagine on a 1 drop... but even that card didnt saw any play) both a 1.
I bet next expansion Blizzard will push Murlocs so Tip the scale could create an Archetype, but for now its dust..
I like your rating on the quest ^^ Its decent but the support minions are really iffy in terms of powerlevel . I imagine something like this could be decent https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1289818-nothing-noteworthy-quest-control-pally (but not great ofc).
What i am really unsure about is a aggro Highlander deck. Zalae thinks its the s..t, but to be honest i have some serious doubts. Priest got very good anti aggro tools. Rogue got a one drop they will play until it rotates out, and a quest that makes them immune to damage. Shaman got this guy Sandstorm Elemental Warrior doesnt care anyways . If Mage decides to go for secrets they are also good vs aggro , but eventually Giants should be superior? No idea about the rest but aggro Paladin for sure doesnt have an easy time.
Personally, I think you are greatly underestimating Zephrys the Great. Not only is it really good in thief rogue (guaranteed board clear + Tess interaction) ... I think it has a lot of "playmaker" abilities.
Wait - so you're talking about a Highlander Rogue deck, with Zeph being the only payoff?
In actual highlander decks, I just don't think plays the right role. It appears to be an average stabilization tool, but I'm not sure it's providing more beyond that. By comparison, I think Reno and Kazakus were providing massive stabilization. Reno was almost reset the game - and Kazakus seemed to be better offensively.
Now, maybe Zeph is better - we'll find out through playtesting. But so far, I'm not getting the win condition vibe that we I got from cards like Reno, Kazakus, Raza, or that fat demon dude who was bad but was a win condition of sorts. It feels more like Solia.
Idk, I did not see any big trouble for bomb war soo...... ez day 1 spam >:}
Even if Dr. Boom got sent to the HOF, Warrior would still have infinite value with Hack the System.
I'm so tired of seeing the same design blunders repeated time after time after time.
Other than that, It will be fun to have new toys to play with for a minute before Dr. Boom crushes them all.
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Threads like this are one of the main reasons I love this site. Thank you 1xbenx1.
You're very welcome! Thanks for the compliment :)
It SEEMS like it has potential to give you a free "now you win card" and turn the tide. Obviously this depends on the AI, but it seems potentially strong (and downright annoying to play against). With so many ways to generate cards and great card draw tools, Highlander Rogue might be doable (admittedly, I am not an expert theorycrafter and usually play more memey stuff for fun) ... though a good hero card for rogue would help here ...
Bomb warrior and bomb shuffling is the main concern for any high lander deck. The last time highlander was a thing, only a niche rogue card could really shut it down ... now everyone has the ability to tech against and shut down every highlander deck. So we shall see!
I think a Highlander Battlecry Shaman deck has a chance. Getting double the Zephrys the Great effects can be game breaking. But I am also concerned with the Bomb decks because if these highlander decks start becoming a thing, Bomb/Control Warrior don't need to modify their deck much to make your highlander cards have no payoff and stop functioning.
That's the thing with Zephrys, some people might be jamming into decks that have no business being highlander. But can this card carry a singleton deck that has only 1 payoff? I don't think so.
From the perspective of "you don't always have to play the best deck for every class" I think the warrior quest is underrated. The new hero power seems on par with booms if not better. And the two decks are very different. Honestly, tempo warrior is already doing fine. Good against token druid, good against mech hunter... nobody plays it, no, but more people should/ could This quest gives good incentive to do so in my opinion.
The main reason I think this quest might fail is because the rogue quest pretty much counters it directly.
I'm sorry, but a hero power offers infinite value, period. The paladin hero power summons a minion every turn by itself, no upgrade needed.
Edit: the only basic hero power that DOESN'T offer infinite value is actually the strongest one. Life Tap.