Given the diversity of Shaman spells, I doubt this is reliable enough for any kind of OTK. It does have value generation which synergizes with Shudderwock but you're unlikely to reliably get damage spells that can go face. I do wonder how the spells cast by the 5/5 token interact with Elektra.
you guys are right, i dont know why i even bother anymore.
this card doesn't win you the game on the spot, therefore its 1600 dust and i dont know why i thought otherwise.
building your deck around shitty elementals that don't work and requiring set up > unconditional effect in a deck with actually good cards
apparently
Lol, I don't think people are saying this is a bad card, just not THAT great either. And Kalimos is not a build around card in even shaman (for instance), but it is very useful in that you know you can be guaranteed of an immediate life gain if you need it, DD if you need it, or an AOE if you need it. It's definitely saved my bacon many times. It usually isn't that hard to trigger and I'd hardly call fire elemental or fireplume "shitty" cards that don't work. Plus Kalimos is at least a 7/7.
Look at VS. Elemental Shaman doesn't work.
This card is better than Kalimos.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
you guys are right, i dont know why i even bother anymore.
this card doesn't win you the game on the spot, therefore its 1600 dust and i dont know why i thought otherwise.
building your deck around shitty elementals that don't work and requiring set up > unconditional effect in a deck with actually good cards
apparently
Lol, I don't think people are saying this is a bad card, just not THAT great either. And Kalimos is not a build around card in even shaman (for instance), but it is very useful in that you know you can be guaranteed of an immediate life gain if you need it, DD if you need it, or an AOE if you need it. It's definitely saved my bacon many times. It usually isn't that hard to trigger and I'd hardly call fire elemental or fireplume "shitty" cards that don't work. Plus Kalimos is at least a 7/7.
Peter Whalen confirmed that first selection of spells will be "all spells from Shaman pool" and second selection will only be non targetable spells. So Horror can have 2 non-targetable spells but not 2 targetable spells.
Did he say that in a Tweet? I can't find that info anywhere.
B) as someone speculated, the Horror's spells might actually follow a pattern: the first batch of spells will consist of targeting spells whilst the second will consist of NON targeting spells (or possibly both?);
Peter Whalen confirmed that first selection of spells will be "all spells from Shaman pool" and second selection will only be non targetable spells. So Horror can have 2 non-targetable spells but not 2 targetable spells.
That is not completely true as I understood it. The 2nd can be a targeted spell, but ONLY if your first choice was a non targetable spell.
you guys are right, i dont know why i even bother anymore.
this card doesn't win you the game on the spot, therefore its 1600 dust and i dont know why i thought otherwise.
building your deck around shitty elementals that don't work and requiring set up > unconditional effect in a deck with actually good cards
apparently
Lol, I don't think people are saying this is a bad card, just not THAT great either. And Kalimos is not a build around card in even shaman (for instance), but it is very useful in that you know you can be guaranteed of an immediate life gain if you need it, DD if you need it, or an AOE if you need it. It's definitely saved my bacon many times. It usually isn't that hard to trigger and I'd hardly call fire elemental or fireplume "shitty" cards that don't work. Plus Kalimos is at least a 7/7.
Look at VS. Elemental Shaman doesn't work.
This card is better than Kalimos.
But even shaman does.
It does? I guess we're lowering our standards. It's listed as tier 3 or worse on every VS list.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
you guys are right, i dont know why i even bother anymore.
this card doesn't win you the game on the spot, therefore its 1600 dust and i dont know why i thought otherwise.
building your deck around shitty elementals that don't work and requiring set up > unconditional effect in a deck with actually good cards
apparently
Lol, I don't think people are saying this is a bad card, just not THAT great either. And Kalimos is not a build around card in even shaman (for instance), but it is very useful in that you know you can be guaranteed of an immediate life gain if you need it, DD if you need it, or an AOE if you need it. It's definitely saved my bacon many times. It usually isn't that hard to trigger and I'd hardly call fire elemental or fireplume "shitty" cards that don't work. Plus Kalimos is at least a 7/7.
Look at VS. Elemental Shaman doesn't work.
This card is better than Kalimos.
But even shaman does.
It does? I guess we're lowering our standards. It's listed as tier 3 or worse on every VS list.
I don't put too much stock in VS. It worked for me last season and I'm rank 1 this season so far, without a serious push. On HS it shows 55% winrates, which is fine. This card might be better than Kalimos assuming that some sort of control shaman is viable, which we haven't seen much evidence of in recent times, except for peanut shaman.
If you know anything about HS, you instantly would spot how hopeless this card is. 7 mana 5/5 do nothing, with a delayed and completely random effect. Yeah, no.
Edit: It appears that they’ve coded this so that the spells are targetable, which makes this card a bit better than what i initially thought. Still a far cry from playable in a competitive deck.
This is a strong card, but slow. And it's under-statted for its cost. So it needs to have good value in a format that is slower. As obviously noted, this card is terrible against aggro decks or a board on the other side.
Think of this card like an Overload card. It's 12 mana, split over 2 turns. You get a 5/5 up front, then the next turn you get another 5/5 and 2 spells. 10/10 in stats, split over 2 bodies and 2 turns with 2 spells along for the ride for 12 mana.
So if this WAS an overload card, it would read 10 mana - Overload (2) - Summon a 5/5 minion. At the start of your next turn, summon another 5/5 and Discover 2 Spells. Would this be playable?
Either way, I think this will see play initially and if the Scheme board clear ends up being really strong, then this card will also be strong too. You clear the board 1 turn, then play this the next turn.
Great effect even greater with Shadder, but 7 mana 5-5 it's awful. Sham need really good board clear with low cost and taunts, and heal (don't forget healing rain rotating out). Possible good card for control Sham, but need more cards, without them - shit, aggro will kill you, if you drop 7 mana do nothing (no taunt - you played nothing).
you all forget how big rotation is. Almost all broken card will go to wild.
So now even just good card will be strong. This card is very very good. Its value, flexability & fun! This card & a shudd will make control sham great again!
Druid minion 7 manas 5/5 draw 2 cards or gain 5 life was considered so good they nerfed.
In Standard with the rotation we don't will have 6 manas infinite value + board clear + armor gain or 10 manas UI anymore, if they don't make the same mistake again the power of the cards will return to normal.
Only with absurd powerful cards like hunter DK or UI a 5/5 draw 3 cards (2 of them discovered) is bad.
Druid minion 7 manas 5/5 draw 2 cards or gain 5 life was considered so good they nerfed.
In Standard with the rotation we don't will have 6 manas infinite value + board clear + armor gain or 10 manas UI anymore, if they don't make the same mistake again the power of the cards will return to normal.
Only with absurd powerful cards like hunter DK or UI a 5/5 draw 3 cards (2 of them discovered) is bad.
Probably a better analysis than my Overload situation. 7 mana 5/5 draw 2 spells and a 1 minion at 5/5 is pretty good. Combined the fact that the spells are FREE to play. This is an extreme value card. And IF the spells were truly random, this card would be terrible. Utter trash in fact.
But you get to Discover both spells? That is such a huge upswing in power.
Druid minion 7 manas 5/5 draw 2 cards or gain 5 life was considered so good they nerfed.
In Standard with the rotation we don't will have 6 manas infinite value + board clear + armor gain or 10 manas UI anymore, if they don't make the same mistake again the power of the cards will return to normal.
Only with absurd powerful cards like hunter DK or UI a 5/5 draw 3 cards (2 of them discovered) is bad.
It is, i said - effect is great, really great, but you will have it only on next turn. UI does his effect on turn it's played and you healing yourself, and removing something on the board. Card is great, don t think, i don't like it, but Control sham is nothing for now, we need cards for this archtype. Without million armour, ramp and huge amount of taunts Druid's UI will be bad card too (it isn't, but UI much better than this card)
It is, i said - effect is great, really great, but you will have it only on next turn. UI does his effect on turn it's played and you healing yourself, and removing something on the board. Card is great, don t think, i don't like it, but Control sham is nothing for now, we need cards for this archtype. Without million armour, ramp and huge amount of taunts Druid's UI will be bad card too (it isn't, but UI much better than this card)
That would be a great card!...if it were for shaman...and if it weren't rotating out...
It's a very slow card. That's pretty obvious. Shaman will need some sustain because it is losing all of it on the class side. But cards that provide this much value cannot be overlooked. The community does it time and again.
I think we will see a bunch of cards of a much lower blatant powerlevel.
7 mana 5/5 do nothing, no taunt...After you play this you die. Even if not, you will be behind on board and need to use the Horror just to catch up on board, assuming you got lucky with getting decent spells.
1- 7 mana 5/5 do nothing, no taunt...After you play this you die...
2- Even if not, you will be behind on board and need to use the Horror just to catch up on board, assuming you got lucky with getting decent spells.
3- Trash, but makes for good memes.
1- Only vs aggro if they ahead in the board, but this is true for any value late game card like Ysera or Sindragosa, you only play cards like this vs aggro after you control the board, aggro is not the only archetype in the game and we don't have aggro decks like pirate warrior or token druid killing you in turn 3 or 4 anymore.
2- You discover x2 spells and can choose the target for them for free, plus, bad spells like search murlocks is rotating, the chances are very good.
3- Trash only if you compare with recent broken cards, like DK hunter, UI or Gul'Dan, if this new expansion have balanced cards like the 3 last expansions this one will be a very good one.
For me this is the bigger issue with cards like hunter DK, it is so insanely broken, OP and undercosted make people see any other decent but balanced card as trash.
I think we're not talking enough about the Shudderwock synergy. Obviously the first effect (generating a 5/5 with spells) is cool, but how about the fact that this puts SPELLS into a battlecry? Prior, your Shudderwock was restricted to minion battlecries only. With this, your two spells ARE a battlecry. IMO if the meta is such that Shudderwock is playable, then this should be playable as well, and not a "7-mana 5/5 do nothing lose the game because it doesn't have taunt."
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There's a lot of Mid-Range control potential with this card, spells like Bloodlust, Healing Rain, Lightning Storm, The Storm Bringer, and whatever other spells Rise of Shadows is adding could add some crazy potential to this card. I just want to know if the spells you choose effect the cost of the elemental and other than that it should be really fun to see.
1- 7 mana 5/5 do nothing, no taunt...After you play this you die...
2- Even if not, you will be behind on board and need to use the Horror just to catch up on board, assuming you got lucky with getting decent spells.
3- Trash, but makes for good memes.
1- Only vs aggro if they ahead in the board, but this is true for any value late game card like Ysera or Sindragosa, you only play cards like this vs aggro after you control the board, aggro is not the only archetype in the game and we don't have aggro decks like pirate warrior or token druid killing you in turn 3 or 4 anymore.
2- You discover x2 spells and can choose the target for them, plus, bad spells like search murlocks is rotating, the chances are very good.
3- Trash only if you compare with recent broken cards, like DK hunter, UI or Gul'Dan, if this new expansion have balanced cards like the 3 last expansions this one will be a very good one.
For me this is the bigger issue with cards like hunter DK, it is so insanely broken, OP and undercosted make people see any other decent but balanced card as trash.
Look, you have a point that things are looking more favorable for more vanilla play, but I don't really know if I want to get involved in a value war with no real win condition against rogue from the limited reveals so far. Two spells and a 5/5 for five Mana is nice, but I don't think it really holds a candle to an army of massive pogo bunnies and 1 cost minions and spells, which I try to fend off with my rain of toads so i can generate tons of stuff in my hand while overloaded. The hunter DK has had little effect on me in the last 2 seasons, because I choose not to get involved in the value game.
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Given the diversity of Shaman spells, I doubt this is reliable enough for any kind of OTK. It does have value generation which synergizes with Shudderwock but you're unlikely to reliably get damage spells that can go face. I do wonder how the spells cast by the 5/5 token interact with Elektra.
Look at VS. Elemental Shaman doesn't work.
This card is better than Kalimos.
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But even shaman does.
https://twitter.com/legendaryferret/status/1107695976163115008?s=21
Yes, you are correct.
It does? I guess we're lowering our standards. It's listed as tier 3 or worse on every VS list.
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I don't put too much stock in VS. It worked for me last season and I'm rank 1 this season so far, without a serious push. On HS it shows 55% winrates, which is fine. This card might be better than Kalimos assuming that some sort of control shaman is viable, which we haven't seen much evidence of in recent times, except for peanut shaman.
If you know anything about HS, you instantly would spot how hopeless this card is. 7 mana 5/5 do nothing, with a delayed and completely random effect. Yeah, no.
Edit: It appears that they’ve coded this so that the spells are targetable, which makes this card a bit better than what i initially thought. Still a far cry from playable in a competitive deck.
Release the Kraken!
This is a strong card, but slow. And it's under-statted for its cost. So it needs to have good value in a format that is slower. As obviously noted, this card is terrible against aggro decks or a board on the other side.
Think of this card like an Overload card. It's 12 mana, split over 2 turns. You get a 5/5 up front, then the next turn you get another 5/5 and 2 spells. 10/10 in stats, split over 2 bodies and 2 turns with 2 spells along for the ride for 12 mana.
So if this WAS an overload card, it would read 10 mana - Overload (2) - Summon a 5/5 minion. At the start of your next turn, summon another 5/5 and Discover 2 Spells. Would this be playable?
Either way, I think this will see play initially and if the Scheme board clear ends up being really strong, then this card will also be strong too. You clear the board 1 turn, then play this the next turn.
Great effect even greater with Shadder, but 7 mana 5-5 it's awful. Sham need really good board clear with low cost and taunts, and heal (don't forget healing rain rotating out). Possible good card for control Sham, but need more cards, without them - shit, aggro will kill you, if you drop 7 mana do nothing (no taunt - you played nothing).
you all forget how big rotation is. Almost all broken card will go to wild.
So now even just good card will be strong. This card is very very good. Its value, flexability & fun! This card & a shudd will make control sham great again!
This is a 7 manas 5/5 draw 3 cards.
Druid minion 7 manas 5/5 draw 2 cards or gain 5 life was considered so good they nerfed.
In Standard with the rotation we don't will have 6 manas infinite value + board clear + armor gain or 10 manas UI anymore, if they don't make the same mistake again the power of the cards will return to normal.
Only with absurd powerful cards like hunter DK or UI a 5/5 draw 3 cards (2 of them discovered) is bad.
Probably a better analysis than my Overload situation. 7 mana 5/5 draw 2 spells and a 1 minion at 5/5 is pretty good. Combined the fact that the spells are FREE to play. This is an extreme value card. And IF the spells were truly random, this card would be terrible. Utter trash in fact.
But you get to Discover both spells? That is such a huge upswing in power.
This makes Shudderwock stronger, unlike Kalimos.
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It is, i said - effect is great, really great, but you will have it only on next turn. UI does his effect on turn it's played and you healing yourself, and removing something on the board. Card is great, don t think, i don't like it, but Control sham is nothing for now, we need cards for this archtype. Without million armour, ramp and huge amount of taunts Druid's UI will be bad card too (it isn't, but UI much better than this card)
That would be a great card!...if it were for shaman...and if it weren't rotating out...
It's a very slow card. That's pretty obvious. Shaman will need some sustain because it is losing all of it on the class side. But cards that provide this much value cannot be overlooked. The community does it time and again.
I think we will see a bunch of cards of a much lower blatant powerlevel.
7 mana 5/5 do nothing, no taunt...After you play this you die. Even if not, you will be behind on board and need to use the Horror just to catch up on board, assuming you got lucky with getting decent spells.
Trash, but makes for good memes.
1- Only vs aggro if they ahead in the board, but this is true for any value late game card like Ysera or Sindragosa, you only play cards like this vs aggro after you control the board, aggro is not the only archetype in the game and we don't have aggro decks like pirate warrior or token druid killing you in turn 3 or 4 anymore.
2- You discover x2 spells and can choose the target for them for free, plus, bad spells like search murlocks is rotating, the chances are very good.
3- Trash only if you compare with recent broken cards, like DK hunter, UI or Gul'Dan, if this new expansion have balanced cards like the 3 last expansions this one will be a very good one.
For me this is the bigger issue with cards like hunter DK, it is so insanely broken, OP and undercosted make people see any other decent but balanced card as trash.
I think we're not talking enough about the Shudderwock synergy. Obviously the first effect (generating a 5/5 with spells) is cool, but how about the fact that this puts SPELLS into a battlecry? Prior, your Shudderwock was restricted to minion battlecries only. With this, your two spells ARE a battlecry. IMO if the meta is such that Shudderwock is playable, then this should be playable as well, and not a "7-mana 5/5 do nothing lose the game because it doesn't have taunt."
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There's a lot of Mid-Range control potential with this card, spells like Bloodlust, Healing Rain, Lightning Storm, The Storm Bringer, and whatever other spells Rise of Shadows is adding could add some crazy potential to this card. I just want to know if the spells you choose effect the cost of the elemental and other than that it should be really fun to see.
Look, you have a point that things are looking more favorable for more vanilla play, but I don't really know if I want to get involved in a value war with no real win condition against rogue from the limited reveals so far. Two spells and a 5/5 for five Mana is nice, but I don't think it really holds a candle to an army of massive pogo bunnies and 1 cost minions and spells, which I try to fend off with my rain of toads so i can generate tons of stuff in my hand while overloaded. The hunter DK has had little effect on me in the last 2 seasons, because I choose not to get involved in the value game.