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So I know that there's been a lot of complaining about odd and even decks in both standard and wild. And I've been thinking about how difficult it is to nerf either of them in a way that doesn't ruin the spirit of the cards and keeps them a viable choice for deckbulding. But then I had an idea that I really would like your opinion on:
What if you swapped the effects of Baku the Mooneater and Genn Greymane (I.e. Odd decks have 1-mana hero powers, and Even decks have upgraded hero powers)?
This would allow both odd and even decks to have a powerful hero power reward for building a deck in a restricted way, but makes both of them clunkier in terms of their curve. For example:
-In current odd decks, you want to play a 1-drop on turn one and then upgraded hero power turn two. Now turn one you have to choose between either 1-mana hero power or 1-drop, and then turn two you're either double 1-drop or 1-mana hero power and 1-drop. You can still have an aggressive start, but on the whole it's a lot slower.
-In current even decks you want to 1-mana hero power turn one and play a 2-drop on turn two. Now you have no turn one play and on turn two you either upgraded hero power or play a 2-drop. This is dramatically slower, and on the whole you'll float more mana, but it makes 0-mana cards worth considering and cards with decreasing mana costs much more valuable.
-However, in the late game, both can take advantage of their hero powers because even decks can go 8-drop + upgraded hero power and odd decks can go 9-drop + 1-mana hero power.
So there's an idea. It's obviously not a perfect solution, but I thought it was worth discussing. I look forward to your thoughts on it. Cheers!
Edit: Fixed some typos.
Im confused
Achieved Legend: S49-Even Paladin, S58 (Wild)- Odd Rouge + Even Shaman
Kinda confusing, can you show us what you mean via HearthCards?
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
I'm on my phone in an airport so I can't right now, but the idea would be even decks have the upgraded hero power and odd decks have the 1-mana hero power.
Too clunky, only viable for even when they have a coin and two 2-drops, for odd if they go first and have 3 1-drops, whereas now you only need 1 1- or 2-drop for both of these decks. Start matters a lot for even and odd (unless it's evenlock, but with this swap there won't be turn 3 giant anymore).
That would make the curve of Odd/Even decks unbearably sub-optimal.
It's a killer nerf, not a solution.
The solution is to stop printing cards that have OP/cheesy synergy with hero powers.
The reason the cards are how they are, at least as far as I can see, is to keep game flow and make things feel good together. In an all-even deck, having an odd hero power is great to fill out that last (1) at the end of an odd-mana turn (Turn 1, 3, 5, etc.). In an all-odd deck, having an upgraded hero power means that you still have something for (2) after playing an odd card (for example, playing a (3)-cost card on Turn 5, then hero power). Obviously, because of how numbers work, this favors odd decks mathematically. On turn 5 in an odd deck, you can fill out your turn with cards from your hand (i.e., (3), (1), and (1)). On turn 5 in an even deck, there's no way to fill your turn, unless the hero power is cheaper.
Without even going into card balance for EVERY card in the game with an odd or even mana cost, swapping the two effects would be a poor choice. Yes, they'd be weaker, but they would also slow the game down hard. Even decks suddenly can't play their hero power on odd turns due to how the mana costs add up, effectively making a hero power cost (3) (when taking into consideration the (1) remaining mana). Odd decks suddenly have a hero power AND an odd-cost card to play together on even turns, giving them more uses of their hero power. This is a really interesting idea, but I think it's far from a solution to Baku and Genn.
Coin
I feel like team 5 probably tested this when they were designing Baku and gen.
I think for game purposes, it probably doesn't change enough.
Baku-Odd-1-mana-HP still curves fine because of the nature of 1 drops. Since they easily fill in your curve on turns 1 through 3, you probably aren't missing much except depleting your hand more quickly.
Even-Genn-Upgrade Paladin will miss turn one (off coin of course) but that pretty readily fixed turn 2 and after. There would be a slight impact here, but I'm not sure how bad it would be over all.
Even-Genn-Upgrade Warrior doesn't care that it misses Turn 1...because it usually does.
That's precisely why their effects are as such:
Odd decks keep the Even hero power
Even decks keep the Odd hero power
No need to change them
I see your points and thank you all for your feedback. While the entire purpose for the suggested changes is to mess with their curves (I.e. I intended for both types of decks to have worse curves after the change), I respect that the effect to even decks in particular could be too much.
A killer nerf is a solution, isn't it? There was never a need for even/odd decks. The game would not be incomplete without them. Removing this thing from the game would be good for play and design.
I'd be fine with a less drastic nerf, but I certainly wouldn't complain or miss them if they got hit hard. Kingsbane was hit with a killer nerf. Quest Rogue should have been hit with a killer nerf the first time. It's okay to hit things with killer nerfs.
Just wait till rotation:
odd
Odd paladin loses most of it's cards due to rotation (but the cockroach will continue to live)
Odd mage loses jaina... yeah that's a lot to lose.
Odd rogue loses firefly, fledgling, fungalmencer,dire mole.. the deck will struggle without replacements
Odd warrior will probably still survive.
Odd hunter isn't really that popular/good.
even:
evenlock loses all the powerhouse cards except mountain giant, and twilight drake.
even paladin loses most of the power cards to rotation, corpsetaker is gone.
even shaman loses a lot of elemental synergy and corpsetaker is gone.
In standard most of those decks will either die or use new cores/cards/win conditions so it's fine.
About wild: we still have big priest since KOFT in the format and reno decks.. so having a 1 year old deck building restriction powerhouse isn't much of an issue for the format.. the format should be stale if there is no powercreep in the game.
If you compare Genn/Baku with the original Quest Rogue, then it's ok to hit half the meta with killer nerfs, including the entire Hunter and Priest classes, together with OTK Paladin, Mecha'thun and other stuff.
Which is obviously unnecessary.
If Genn/Baku were problematic per se, we would have Odd/Even Priest or Odd/Even Hunter or Odd/Even Druid on top tier as well. Why not, also Odd Warlock and Shaman. That does not happen, despite some direct support.
That proves that synergy with Hero Powers is the key point, and what makes the difference.
Odd paladin and odd rogue and even lock and odd warrior all will have more than enough power to survive after rotation.
You are acting like they are the only decks losing cards. In truth, the hero power gains the power level of a card in these decks. From that perspective, the automatically keep a lot of their deck so long as the hero power continues to work. Also, odd paladin currently relies a lot on classic cards in order to buff its recruits.
I actually think this is a valid idea. Since we will probably not see cards banned and I am probably not the only person that is sick to constantly hear "none will survive", a nuke from orbit is the only solutions.
I am not saying that these cards are too strong, but they plain out make the meta more boring. Hero power is not an interesting aspect of the game. Yet, baku will be dominant for another 15 month. 15! Does that not make you uneasy? To have this mess for another 15! Month?
Occasionally gives helpful advice.
If your hero power costs 2 in an all even deck, you'd ALWAYS float mana on odd numbered turns. No good.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
For starters I would like the odd/even effect to show before you mulligan. That way you know a little more what you are up against, and not have to gamble on Odd pala or otk pala. I know that guessing what you are up against is a part of the game but this could be the little drawback for odd/even decks.