I MCT moved to HOF there won't be any Wide board Tech options left ....
i hate the Card and I think it's Broken in Experts hands but it's healthy for the Game so I disagree with OP ..
If people talk about this Card I won't be surprised if Blizzard changed its cost to 4 or even 5 Mana in The future like big game hunter so .... Sheshshsh
MC Tech, what a big deal, for 3 mana 3/3 that do nothing because opponent has 3 minions and if he is a newbie and has 4, steal one, but that doesnt stop him for smorc you.
Having a card that discourages overly greedy play is good. It gives you a decision to make about when you should push the board for dominance, and when to simply maintain a small edge on board.
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It's a stupid card and shouldn't exist (cannot tell you how many games I've lost to pathetic stall decks because of it), but calling for it to be removed is a waste of time as it will not happen and there are worse cards to worry about.
What many people defending MCT don't seem to understand is that this is not necessarily about how balanced the card is, it's about it being one of the most frustrating cards to lose to. What if you have no choice but to play a fourth minion because you're afraid to mill yourself or you have to push for lethal? Sometimes you just have to play into MCT and that makes it feel even worse to lose to. the card has one of the most swingy rng effects in the game. If the MCT takes a big minion it can often mean board swings of over 15 stats in total for only three mana. A three mana neutral rare should never be able to do something like that by itself. It can also just take a 1/1 ofcourse and that results in the player playing the card to feel bad. So like the OP said, it always results in one player being frustrated. How can that be a good thing for the game?
Having a card that discourages overly greedy play is good. It gives you a decision to make about when you should push the board for dominance, and when to simply maintain a small edge on board.
I disagree. Nowadays combo decks are super powerful, and if you're playing for tempo it's another way to punish midrange decks for just trying to do what they do. AOE, plague, etc already punish you for going wide, now you have to lose tempo to a stall deck if you manage to stick enough on the board to qualify for a small discount on a sea giant or something? It's laughable. But it is what it is. Greed is some guy cheating out a grizzly and cubeing out four more.
MCT is pretty fine, its a nice and solid card. Its not imba or broken its rng and strat. and its a fair tool vs aggro or big minions in large numbers.
Fair enough. If a card like MCT can exist which in one turn can effectively end my mid game push against a combo deck (and it's not really a tech vs aggro, it's a tech vs midrange, an odd paladin doesn't care if you steal a damaged creeper), I'm ok with that, if they put dirty rat in the classic set and I can by the power of RNG effectively end a combo deck's day by playing a cheap card and destroying a piece of their combo. Hey, you can play around it by keeping lots of minions in hand.
When ladder decks have to consistently use high RNG cards to support a +50% win rate, whether a high-roll ability or curve-draw (<COUGH>mana<COUGH>wyrm), guess what happens? The deck's performance is increasingly reliant on the performance of those high rolls. Streamers have talked about this phenomenon before when Barnes/Big Priest was in standard.
So maybe... the problem no one sees; is the meta is so polarized in match-ups (recently highlighted by Vicious Syndicate), MCT-like cards are required in certain decks to obtain balanced win-rates across the board. Nobody calls BS because, across the board, all meta decks seem to be kept in check... each being satisfied with its own ~52% win rate. ...but is that right?
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"Put 'em all in", they said. "You gon' be ballin", they said.
Perception bias, just like Divine Favor. There are so many time this card just clogs up your hand or is a useless topdeck. You would never know because it doesn't get played in those cases.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
MCT is a incredibly annoying card that makes your butt cheeks clench hard af when it comes down but it ain't broken or busted really, it's just the perfect representation ofhearthstone, an rng "roll" card, you either highroll with it and destroy your opponent by stealing their best minion or you lowroll and steal garbage and gain little to no tempo on board.
I believe that this card is probably the most problematic neutral classic card in the game. Why?
It has an effect similar to sylvanas, people play around it and almost destroy their whole boards trying to play around both of these cards. Sylvanas was moved to the hall of fame for a reason. Being lucky won you the game on the spot, and being unlucky could easily lose you the game. It’s the same with mind control deck. Your hadronox is gone? Good game. I stole your fire fly? I lose. Keep in mind sylvanas was also a deathrattle and mc tech does it’s job instantly, so you have to be constantly playing around him. Since you can have 2 rares in a deck, you have to pretty much always be playing around mc tech against decks that would use. If Sylvanas was moved to the hall of fame, why not this card?
Let's start with this argument. Sylvanas did deserve a hall of fame, you play Sylvanas and you get a decent body that CONSTANTLY threatens to Mind Control an enemy minion. It wasn't very conditional, drop Sylvanas, and the ONLY way to deny the effect to trade into and create an empty board, or have an empty board and clear it. Very hard gating condition there.
Let's compare that with MC Tech. It's an immediate effect and lower cost, however, it's very heavily gated in its mind control condition: Have 4 or more enemy minions on the board. This condition means that the enemy usually has the upper hand, or at least is in a state, that when the Mind Control goes off it's not devastating the entire enemy board, unlike Sylvanas which can completely deny an enemy board state at all.
So basically the reason why Sylvanas is HOF'd and MCT isn't is because very rarely does MCT create a board state that is impossible to come back from, from the opponent's viewpoint. Stealing Hadronox and the like are very high-end cases for MCT, but the opponent has a chance to play around MCT, just simply don't play your key pieces if you have 3+ minions on the board, that's not a hard counter in any sense. Sylvanas, on the other hand, can sit on a board and ACTIVELY threaten your opponent from playing a singular minion or develop back to a decent board.
Look at a lot of hated decks right now. Odd warrior, Shudderwock Shaman, maly druid, and cube hunter are all great candidates. These decks all use these cards because it helps them stall until they reach the late game, which these decks are some of the best in the game at. So basically, make a deck with a strong win condition but a weak early game, throw in mc tech, and boom. Now any game is winnable. Even the chance of your opponent having mc tech makes players not play 4 minions, which could cause them to lose the game. Many times a player will need to gain tempo because they are losing board, but then they are denied because of mc tech.
This argument is simply MCT shining in a temporary meta, Sylvanas is/was almost an instant include in every archetype of deck simply because it was that strong. And again, this issue with MCT being used now is because other cards in Standard are helping MCT see use again, without these other cards, like Branching Paths, Baku, Healing Rain, etc. that also help shore up early game MCT wouldn't see use at all, it's simply an addition to a deck, not a reason you can build one. Right now in this meta, Aggro and Face decks are indeed having a terrible time, I agree, but MCT isn't the reason and is barely helping more control decks as a tool. It's simply not strong enough to warrant limiting designs / deck-building. All of this paragraph can be said about other anti-aggro/tempo tools, like say Swipe, Consecration, Spreading Plague, Reckless Flurry, Volcano, etc. MCT is just another card in that pile.
So MCT specifically I don't think is the problem, but posts like this bring up a good point that currently there are way too many EFFECTIVE anti-aggro tools in the game right now.
This card makes at least 1 player rage most of the time it is played, and it is a very common card to see, which will be in the classic set forever. Is this what blizzard wants? I doubt it.
Hopefully many people agree, as mct is one of the most unhealthy cards in the game I feel.
This quote specifically, out of context, describes a good percentage of anti-aggro tools. Is this quote about Bloodreaver Guldan? Is this Swipe? How about Mind Control? You get the point, most of your argument seems to describe a general anti-aggro card. MCT is a good anti-aggro / tempo tool, but I don't believe it's strength is enough to warrant a HOFing, I honestly believe MCT is a pretty healthy card, it's a nice core card that will fade in and out of the Meta, much like Ironbeak, Spellbreaker, Leeroy, Acolyte, Bloodmage, etc. when other elements get too strong.
TL;DR - MCT is strong, but not unhealthy, and will fade in and out based on the meta. Sylvanas was an insta-include in almost every deck because it was insanely strong, not so much for MCT.
I think MCtech is fairly balanced, but I do think it's not a particularly fun card and doesn't promote particularly balanced games.
I would like to see it changed to do an effect that is a little less swingy, but still provide the functionality of a counter to going wide as I think that's a nice thing to have.
Maybe giving itself a buff. Maybe drawing you cards.
Compare to Spreading Plague. SP similarly punishes the opponent for having many minions, but the variance is linearly based on the number of minions, not based on a random draw of getting their best minion, which makes it more predictable and less annoying.
It's not a big problem, but I think there may be room for a little improvement. Sylvanas was definitely worse. That doesn't mean MCtech is perfect either.
I MCT moved to HOF there won't be any Wide board Tech options left ....
i hate the Card and I think it's Broken in Experts hands but it's healthy for the Game so I disagree with OP ..
If people talk about this Card I won't be surprised if Blizzard changed its cost to 4 or even 5 Mana in The future like big game hunter so .... Sheshshsh
MC Tech, what a big deal, for 3 mana 3/3 that do nothing because opponent has 3 minions and if he is a newbie and has 4, steal one, but that doesnt stop him for smorc you.
Dr7 its back!
Having a card that discourages overly greedy play is good. It gives you a decision to make about when you should push the board for dominance, and when to simply maintain a small edge on board.
Check out my gaming blog: Downy Owlbear Designs and download free P&P games.
Or argue with me about games on Qallout, the video debate site.
MC is a totally ok card with reasoanble stats and not so op ability, no need to discuss it.
Well... Yeah?
The classic and basic sets are stale as fuck. Getting rid of them entirely and replacing them with new stuff would be awesome.
Are we really going to be playing these cards for all of Hearthstone?
Is this a meta problem? Poor old King Krush for instance has been waiting for love for years. Ditto Argentina Commander.
MCT I think is having his time in the sun. Nothing more. His limits are clear.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
More like the problem only you see..
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
It's a stupid card and shouldn't exist (cannot tell you how many games I've lost to pathetic stall decks because of it), but calling for it to be removed is a waste of time as it will not happen and there are worse cards to worry about.
What many people defending MCT don't seem to understand is that this is not necessarily about how balanced the card is, it's about it being one of the most frustrating cards to lose to. What if you have no choice but to play a fourth minion because you're afraid to mill yourself or you have to push for lethal? Sometimes you just have to play into MCT and that makes it feel even worse to lose to. the card has one of the most swingy rng effects in the game. If the MCT takes a big minion it can often mean board swings of over 15 stats in total for only three mana. A three mana neutral rare should never be able to do something like that by itself. It can also just take a 1/1 ofcourse and that results in the player playing the card to feel bad. So like the OP said, it always results in one player being frustrated. How can that be a good thing for the game?
I disagree. Nowadays combo decks are super powerful, and if you're playing for tempo it's another way to punish midrange decks for just trying to do what they do. AOE, plague, etc already punish you for going wide, now you have to lose tempo to a stall deck if you manage to stick enough on the board to qualify for a small discount on a sea giant or something? It's laughable. But it is what it is. Greed is some guy cheating out a grizzly and cubeing out four more.
MCT is pretty fine, its a nice and solid card. Its not imba or broken its rng and strat. and its a fair tool vs aggro or big minions in large numbers.
Fair enough. If a card like MCT can exist which in one turn can effectively end my mid game push against a combo deck (and it's not really a tech vs aggro, it's a tech vs midrange, an odd paladin doesn't care if you steal a damaged creeper), I'm ok with that, if they put dirty rat in the classic set and I can by the power of RNG effectively end a combo deck's day by playing a cheap card and destroying a piece of their combo. Hey, you can play around it by keeping lots of minions in hand.
OP brings up a critical, yet imperfect topic:
When ladder decks have to consistently use high RNG cards to support a +50% win rate, whether a high-roll ability or curve-draw (<COUGH>mana<COUGH>wyrm), guess what happens? The deck's performance is increasingly reliant on the performance of those high rolls. Streamers have talked about this phenomenon before when Barnes/Big Priest was in standard.
So maybe... the problem no one sees; is the meta is so polarized in match-ups (recently highlighted by Vicious Syndicate), MCT-like cards are required in certain decks to obtain balanced win-rates across the board. Nobody calls BS because, across the board, all meta decks seem to be kept in check... each being satisfied with its own ~52% win rate. ...but is that right?
"Put 'em all in", they said. "You gon' be ballin", they said.
Perception bias, just like Divine Favor. There are so many time this card just clogs up your hand or is a useless topdeck. You would never know because it doesn't get played in those cases.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
If nobody sees it, chances are it is no problem at all.
MCT is a incredibly annoying card that makes your butt cheeks clench hard af when it comes down but it ain't broken or busted really, it's just the perfect representation ofhearthstone, an rng "roll" card, you either highroll with it and destroy your opponent by stealing their best minion or you lowroll and steal garbage and gain little to no tempo on board.
Let's start with this argument. Sylvanas did deserve a hall of fame, you play Sylvanas and you get a decent body that CONSTANTLY threatens to Mind Control an enemy minion. It wasn't very conditional, drop Sylvanas, and the ONLY way to deny the effect to trade into and create an empty board, or have an empty board and clear it. Very hard gating condition there.
Let's compare that with MC Tech. It's an immediate effect and lower cost, however, it's very heavily gated in its mind control condition: Have 4 or more enemy minions on the board. This condition means that the enemy usually has the upper hand, or at least is in a state, that when the Mind Control goes off it's not devastating the entire enemy board, unlike Sylvanas which can completely deny an enemy board state at all.
So basically the reason why Sylvanas is HOF'd and MCT isn't is because very rarely does MCT create a board state that is impossible to come back from, from the opponent's viewpoint. Stealing Hadronox and the like are very high-end cases for MCT, but the opponent has a chance to play around MCT, just simply don't play your key pieces if you have 3+ minions on the board, that's not a hard counter in any sense. Sylvanas, on the other hand, can sit on a board and ACTIVELY threaten your opponent from playing a singular minion or develop back to a decent board.
This argument is simply MCT shining in a temporary meta, Sylvanas is/was almost an instant include in every archetype of deck simply because it was that strong. And again, this issue with MCT being used now is because other cards in Standard are helping MCT see use again, without these other cards, like Branching Paths, Baku, Healing Rain, etc. that also help shore up early game MCT wouldn't see use at all, it's simply an addition to a deck, not a reason you can build one. Right now in this meta, Aggro and Face decks are indeed having a terrible time, I agree, but MCT isn't the reason and is barely helping more control decks as a tool. It's simply not strong enough to warrant limiting designs / deck-building. All of this paragraph can be said about other anti-aggro/tempo tools, like say Swipe, Consecration, Spreading Plague, Reckless Flurry, Volcano, etc. MCT is just another card in that pile.
So MCT specifically I don't think is the problem, but posts like this bring up a good point that currently there are way too many EFFECTIVE anti-aggro tools in the game right now.
---------------
This quote specifically, out of context, describes a good percentage of anti-aggro tools. Is this quote about Bloodreaver Guldan? Is this Swipe? How about Mind Control? You get the point, most of your argument seems to describe a general anti-aggro card. MCT is a good anti-aggro / tempo tool, but I don't believe it's strength is enough to warrant a HOFing, I honestly believe MCT is a pretty healthy card, it's a nice core card that will fade in and out of the Meta, much like Ironbeak, Spellbreaker, Leeroy, Acolyte, Bloodmage, etc. when other elements get too strong.
TL;DR - MCT is strong, but not unhealthy, and will fade in and out based on the meta. Sylvanas was an insta-include in almost every deck because it was insanely strong, not so much for MCT.
I think MCtech is fairly balanced, but I do think it's not a particularly fun card and doesn't promote particularly balanced games.
I would like to see it changed to do an effect that is a little less swingy, but still provide the functionality of a counter to going wide as I think that's a nice thing to have.
Maybe giving itself a buff. Maybe drawing you cards.
Compare to Spreading Plague. SP similarly punishes the opponent for having many minions, but the variance is linearly based on the number of minions, not based on a random draw of getting their best minion, which makes it more predictable and less annoying.
It's not a big problem, but I think there may be room for a little improvement. Sylvanas was definitely worse. That doesn't mean MCtech is perfect either.