Hearthpwn

How could you say it doesnt matter to burn a Savannah once you're past turn 6 lol? It reduces by half the chance of drawing it, or if you played one already it reduces the chance to 0. Savannah and kill command are about the only cards you care about drawing once you're past that turn 6 and your board has eventually been dealt with.

So the effect is not only psychological, it's real, it can make you burn your last out to win the game in some situation. Maybe you would have drawned that Savannah next turn, maybe never. Turning off the possibility to ever draw it makes a difference that's not only psychological.

I understand that you're better off if this card makes u get a spell or burn a creature you dont care about. And it makes you infinitely worst if you burn a very high value card, especially in a hunter deck that's left topdecking really early.

Guess it also has to do with your mentality as a player. I would hate to take the risk to destroy my outs in the game unless i do that to get a huge advantage. This card is simply not worth the risk imo.

That's probably why i dont play hunter on ladder at the moment as well. Feels to unreliable to me, even if i understand the winrate is high. Hunter games at the moment, as I feel it, are all or nothing situations. U either draw undertaker with perfect curve and they die if they cant deal with it by turn 2-3 or you have average draws and you're in bad shape after first board clear happens, especially against warrior/priest.

Nope, mechanics are different but result are equivalent. Chickening your best creature equals summoning them a good creature in exchange for a spell/trade. Drawing a spell equals summoning a good tech card for your opponent, denying a battlecry, like bgh, owl, twilight drake, aldor, doomsayer etc.

And this argument is pointless, because there's no reason to ever play this card, since the only thing you're arguing is that it's not as disgustingly bad as it looks at first. Say you won. Did it become good?

tracking is different in the sense that it also lets you choose what to burn. it's only terrible when you have 2 or 3 cards that really cant be burned. and this still leaves you with one excellent card to play.

And still the possibility of that happening is relatively low. Most of the time u burn 2 bad or average cards for the matchup and end up with one good card. I've remembered using tracking in order to find flare in mirror hunter.

Quote from Dr_Smash »

Imagine if we changed the wording to the following:

"have a look at the last card in your deck.... if its a spell keep it, if it is a minion put a chicken in your hand".

Notice that thinking about the card in this way means that, unless you are going to fatigue, the downside is really marginal.  Since  you were never going to draw Ragnaros anyway who cares if you discard it!

Now I know this wording is different but just like tracking the difference is more psychological than logical.  The difference between burning your next card and the last card in the deck is basically the same,  logically speaking.

To prove that:

• "have a look at the last card in your deck.... if its a spell keep it, if it is a minion put a chicken in your hand".

is basically the same as:

• "have a look at the Second to Last card in your deck.... if its a spell keep it, if it is a minion put a chicken in your hand".

,,,and via backward induction it seems that these statements are equivalent to:

• "have a look at the First card in your deck.... if its a spell keep it, if it is a minion put a chicken in your hand".

...and so on. 

 

Long story short, this is the sort of thing that allows you to play a 28 card deck. Yes thats right folks, for a mere 1 stat point (most 3's are 3/3's) on a minion you get a 28 card deck that has some non-negligible chance to cycle even deeper (i.e. you might draw a spell) and in other cases you get a chicken which is in some cases exploitable.  

So yeah Experimenter = misunderstood genius, imo. 

 

This is wrong:

Whether it's random or not makes no difference.  Regardless, lets say you have 4 late game minions, which are important in your deck.  You have 20 cards left in deck.  Odds of burning an important late game card:  20% chance.  That means, 1/5 times, you're fucked your late game by getting rid of 1 late game card.  This is significant, because next turn, with 19 cards in deck, odds of drawing a late game threat are 3/19, or 16% chance of drawing (instead of 4/19, or 21%). 

This gets more significant with less cards left in deck.  Say you have 12 cards left in deck, and 3 late game minions you can draw.  Odds of turning one into a chicken are 3/12, or 25%, as are the odds of drawing it, 25%.  That means, next turn, if you burn a late game threat (which happens 25% of the time), your chance of getting that late game minion go from 25% to 2/11, or 18%.

basically, this card's upside, which is a card draw, has pretty serious downsides, and a very bad body for it's cost.

You're much better playing just playing a class specific draw like arcane intellect, with no body, better draw, and no downsides.  This is a horrible topdeck card late game, if you have some serious threats left in deck.  And if you don't, and are behind, you're probably losing anyway.

Quote from Dr_Smash »

Imagine if we changed the wording to the following:

"have a look at the last card in your deck.... if its a spell keep it, if it is a minion put a chicken in your hand".

Notice that thinking about the card in this way means that, unless you are going to fatigue, the downside is really marginal.  Since you were never going to draw Ragnaros anyway who cares if you discard it!

.....................................

So yeah Experimenter = misunderstood genius, imo. 

 

It's not the wording and the downside isn't marginal. IMO, especially with Spider Tank coming out, you're not giving up 1 stat point, you're giving up at least 2 stats (and most 3 mana creatures aren't 3/3, they're 3/3 with a useful ability). If it does draw a chicken instead of a spell, it had a useless ability and is worse than Knife Juggler, meaning you spent one more mana for a worse card.

Discarding a card is relevant, but the bigger problem is that it has the same 5 total stats as Silverback Patriarch.

This deck is going to suck but I'm making a 22 spell hunter deck with this guy in it.  Throw in some venture co mercs since you have very few creatures, animal companion doesn't count as a creature and can't get chickened, if something gets chickened it will activate your kill command.  Um yeah it's going to suck but I'll give it a shot. 

The problem with the card in freeze mage is that it just isn't that good.  Versus Zoo or hunter, they will have a 2 drop that can trade into it, and it won't help you get board control back.  A 2/3 would be far better tbh for freeze mage.  In Miracle rogue, they already have enough 3 drops that this would result in too much mana clump.  Don't expect the card to see much gameplay.  It just doesn't do a good job at what it wants to do.  

The card description does not say that the card that is transformed into a chicken will be played. If it stays in your hand it means that this card is worse than an earthen ring farseer which has better stats, does a beneficial extra effect and does not reduce your card quality.

I'm still not sold on this card. If I wanted draw then I'd use a different form of draw that's reliable. Sure you might get some tempo because the chicken is presumably 0 cost (Chicken), but how useful is a 3 for 3/2 that also summons a 1/1? Sure you get to choose when to play that 1/1, but it's pretty much the same effect.That sounds very similar to the Razorfen Hunter, and the Harvest Golem If you do end up drawing a minion and if you don't end up drawing your entire deck, the value is negligible because you aren't really gaining anything since that is just like a delayed razorfen hunter. So it can either be a 3/2 draw of a 3/2 razorfen hunter that destroys your next minon. I might be looking at it wrong, but that doesn't sound that great to me.

There are two things you can do with this card to make its bad outcomes suck less

1. Run more spells or spell win conditions (Miracle Rogue, Freeze Mage with Pyroblast)

Or

2. Run multiple minion win conditions (Control Warrior, Ramp Druid)

I can see this card being run in some decks but overall I think the battlecry it is too situational (even for card draw) despite the fact that the body is above average for a minion with a card draw effect.

I need to know EXACTLY what the Chicken does, first. Are there different kinds of Chickens? Are they all Chickens like Gelbin makes? Angry Chickens? Homing Chickens? Is there a Chicken that I don't know about yet in the new set?

Also, does the opponent know what I drew and sees the transformation? Or does it look like a normal draw to him?

Quote from Metzelmax »

I dont get why it is 3 mana. It is a fricking negative effect on card draw. Should be 2 mana or a 3/3.

I agree. It would probably be a very good card at 2 mana.

Quote from Dr_Smash »

Imagine if we changed the wording to the following: "have a look at the last card in your deck.... if its a spell keep it, if it is a minion put a chicken in your hand". Notice that thinking about the card in this way means that, unless you are going to fatigue, the downside is really marginal.  Since  you were never going to draw Ragnaros anyway who cares if you discard it! Now I know this wording is different but just like tracking the difference is more psychological than logical.  The difference between burning your next card and the last card in the deck is basically the same,  logically speaking.... So yeah Experimenter = misunderstood genius, imo. 

 I think you are probably right. I had to remind myself of all the cards left in my deck at the end of the majority of my games. Those were all destroyed cards as well. At the end of the game, none of them mattered.

It's just a weird version of Razorfen Hunter.  You either burn a card for the 1/1 or you get a spell in your hand.  For decks that regularly go to fatigue it's a horrible card.  For all other decks it's well a horrible card.  I mean has anyone ever put Razorfen Hunter in a viable constructed deck?

This may be good in arena.  This is similar to a razorfen hunter but instead its a 3/2 and 3/2 is actually stronger than 2/3.  And if you don't get a minion it'll be a a one mana draw.  And I think trump values draws at 1.5 mana.

So because of the randomness its either a 3.5 mana minion or worth slightly better than a razorfen (but a razorfen isn't good).

Quote from zeek81 »

It's just a weird version of Razorfen Hunter.  You either burn a card for the 1/1 or you get a spell in your hand.  For decks that regularly go to fatigue it's a horrible card.  For all other decks it's well a horrible card.  I mean has anyone ever put Razorfen Hunter in a viable constructed deck?

Its more than "just a weird version of RH". The are details that RH doesn't do. The are possibilities of having an additional card in your hand (Twilight Drake & Mountain Giant) as well as having a 0 cost creature. (Auctioneer, any Rogue Combo, Questing Adventurer, Illidan Stormrage)

Actually, now that I think about it, Clockwork Gnome (1) into Loot Hoarder/Novice Engineer (2) into Gnomish Experimenter (3) into Twilight Drake/Mountain Giant (4) is actually a curve as well as a card played every turn.

Quote from IONDragonX »

Quote from zeek81 »

It's just a weird version of Razorfen Hunter.  You either burn a card for the 1/1 or you get a spell in your hand.  For decks that regularly go to fatigue it's a horrible card.  For all other decks it's well a horrible card.  I mean has anyone ever put Razorfen Hunter in a viable constructed deck?

Its more than "just a weird version of RH". The are details that RH doesn't do. The are possibilities of having an additional card in your hand (Twilight Drake & Mountain Giant) as well as having a 0 cost creature. (Auctioneer, any Rogue Combo, Questing Adventurer, Illidan Stormrage)

Actually, now that I think about it, Clockwork Gnome (1) into Loot Hoarder/Novice Engineer (2) into Gnomish Experimenter (3) into Twilight Drake/Mountain Giant (4) is actually a curve as well as a card played every turn.

Then you chicken your Twilight Drake/Mountain Giant/Molten Giant/Jaraxxus/any of the minions in the very minion heavy deck, assuming this is a Handlock and not some bizarre deck that relies on a perfect start to play the Mountain Giants or get very high Drakes, and you feel sad.

good in miracle, maybe?

It can probably be good in Miracle due to the low number of minions, though still risky due to Miracle's increased need of certain minions. But it can be good in something like Miracle.

Miracle Rogue, Freeze Mage, Zoolock, Hunter Decks w/ Buzzard, and Questing Adventurer decks all seem like good potential homes for the Gnomish Experimenter.

Also, nothing says you have to play him on T3. You could wait until one of your "must have" cards is already in hand.

Also, with the introduction of this card you can now run a deck that is almost 1/2 neutral cantrip minions - I expect we're going to start seeing some new styles of rush-down deck that take advantage of this fact.

Quote from Balckovic »

I expect some "look at the top of your deck" cards/minions, that it can be played safely, but you need an additional card to do so

That'd be fun and would definitely make this card much more seen.