You know what's funny about this? Mana Wyrm might be one of the best 2-cost minions in the game now. No, seriously. The bar is set so low right now that a nerfed 1-drop might actually be better than most of them. It'll probably replace Amani Berserker in Tempo Mage, too.
Soooooooooooo, how are mages going to replace it? Because imho Mana Wyrm has to fight for a slot in the 2-mana curve with Sorcerer's Apprentice and Arcanologist and those are the better cards. With Secretkeeper (as a potential tech against hunters)? Fire Fly? Glacial Shard (in a way to stop minions from trading and gain tempo)?
And another thing:
Since Mana Wyrm's mana cost is going to be increased, cheap spells like Shooting Star will lose their value and will be cut in favour for more impactful cards. My questions is - do you think that tempo/burn mage could possibly lean to a more mid-rangy/minionful list?
If aggro decks don't become THAT popular, I predict how burn mage will start to use 2 copies of Pyroblast again. There might be some room for Archmage Antonidas as well? Or tempo elemental/murloc decks? I know that someone may mock me for the last part, but as I have heard before they have potential to contest other popular decks.
No, it won't happen without some broken support. Other classes are just much better than mage at curving throug the midgame. Once tempo/midrange mage lose the board, they usually die, unless they have chipped the opponent low with minions in the earlygame so the burn spells can finish the job. With a 2-mana Wyrm and plenty of armorgain in the meta, they just killed a big number of mage decks.
I think Mana Wyrm has always been an issue and that it should be nerfed.. but only because at 3 health it's basically guaranteed to survive if played turn 1, and it can trade against pretty much any 1 drop and come out ahead if the mage plays a spell on T2.
If it was at 2 health, it's still a powerful card, but not such bullshit because almost every deck has an answer or a 1 drop that can trade against it, and it dies to any 2 drop. Look at lightwarden, it can snowball like crazy, but at 2 mana it rarely survives to do so.
I exclusively play wild. I very very rarely see games where wyrm snowballs the game on its own. It usually never makes it to turn 3. Given this nerf, I wonder how wild aluneth mage will adjust given that it loses its only 1 drop.
I remember a video of kripp, comparing every good card. He crowned mana wyrm the most powerful card in all the game.
I agree that tempo mage was not the problem of this meta, but this nerf needed to happen sooner or later.
And I remember banging my head when I saw my opponent play mana wyrm coin mana wyrm on first turn.
Btw it is true, in vanilla it was not so powerful. But in those days my mage deck had yeti and boulderfist ogre... Low cost high value spells made it OP. To the point of restricting the design space.
I hope I won't get banned picking on a mod. Right?...
I remember a video of kripp, comparing every good card. He crowned mana wyrm the most powerful card in all the game.
I agree that tempo mage was not the problem of this meta, but this nerf needed to happen sooner or later.
And I remember banging my head when I saw my opponent play mana wyrm coin mana wyrm on first turn.
Btw it is true, in vanilla it was not so powerful. But in those days my mage deck had yeti and boulderfist ogre... Low cost high value spells made it OP. To the point of restricting the design space.
I hope I won't get banned picking on a mod. Right?...
Haha, most of the time, we are forum members like anybody in here, no worries!
But I disagree. There have been plenty of spells in the "low cost, high value" category before, but even in it's Flamewaker heyday, it was never more than a tier 2 deck, being so by the good matchup vs combo druid. It was also one of the least polarizing archetypes out there.
I also strongly dislike that blizzard says the card still will see play. No, it won't a 2-mana 1-3 that requires 2 more cards to be ahead of the Yeti curve is simply far too weak. Amani Berserker is much stronger.
I am so happy right now. Maybe the nerf will make some of the Face Mages backoff from queueing up this deck.
Unfortunately in wild the deck will still exist (well Burn Mage anyway) since they have over 30 damage burst just from spells, not counting pings or random minion attacks.
I am so happy right now. Maybe the nerf will make some of the Face Mages backoff from queueing up this deck.
Unfortunately in wild the deck will still exist (well Burn Mage anyway) since they have over 30 damage burst just from spells, not counting pings or random minion attacks.
Don't count on it... I have tried to make facefreeze work for a while, and it is just too weak vs anything with armorgain, even with the Wyrms.
The viable decks will be Big Spell, Reno and Exodia freeze. I have limited faith in elementals and secret decks after this nerf.
You know what's funny about this? Mana Wyrm might be one of the best 2-cost minions in the game now. No, seriously. The bar is set so low right now that a nerfed 1-drop might actually be better than most of them. It'll probably replace Amani Berserker in Tempo Mage, too.
It does have tons of support now, yet it is t2.
Tempo Mage was already vulnerable to releases and rotations (while never being top tier), but the lack of a solid 1-drop makes her even more so.
I mean, the above is pretty obvious, i can't see how you can deny it.
Good or bad, i don't know. But they just substantially increased the floating potential (and future design needs) of Tempo Mage. It is a fact.
No, it won't happen without some broken support. Other classes are just much better than mage at curving throug the midgame. Once tempo/midrange mage lose the board, they usually die, unless they have chipped the opponent low with minions in the earlygame so the burn spells can finish the job. With a 2-mana Wyrm and plenty of armorgain in the meta, they just killed a big number of mage decks.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Nerf somewhat justified, but the timing is all wrong. Why kick mage when they are already down? Blizzard really has no common sense.
I just got rekt in arena thanks to this bullshit. Go to hell Mana Wyrm.
ooo Goodie!
Damn. Not sure this was necessary, not like Tempo mage was crushing the meta. Definitely regret crafting Stargazer Luna now.
My thoughts on the upcoming changes;
Everyone in here looking at mana wyrm in terms of class meta and not it's stand alone value *sigh*
DJ
I think Mana Wyrm has always been an issue and that it should be nerfed.. but only because at 3 health it's basically guaranteed to survive if played turn 1, and it can trade against pretty much any 1 drop and come out ahead if the mage plays a spell on T2.
If it was at 2 health, it's still a powerful card, but not such bullshit because almost every deck has an answer or a 1 drop that can trade against it, and it dies to any 2 drop. Look at lightwarden, it can snowball like crazy, but at 2 mana it rarely survives to do so.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
What if they just Hall of Fame it?
I exclusively play wild. I very very rarely see games where wyrm snowballs the game on its own. It usually never makes it to turn 3. Given this nerf, I wonder how wild aluneth mage will adjust given that it loses its only 1 drop.
I remember a video of kripp, comparing every good card. He crowned mana wyrm the most powerful card in all the game.
I agree that tempo mage was not the problem of this meta, but this nerf needed to happen sooner or later.
And I remember banging my head when I saw my opponent play mana wyrm coin mana wyrm on first turn.
Btw it is true, in vanilla it was not so powerful. But in those days my mage deck had yeti and boulderfist ogre... Low cost high value spells made it OP. To the point of restricting the design space.
I hope I won't get banned picking on a mod. Right?...
Ready for action
I cannot think of a single good thing to do on turn 1 with mage now. Seriously? Am I just brain farting? Somebody help me out here.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Uuuuh secret keeper I guess. I feel you.
Haha, most of the time, we are forum members like anybody in here, no worries!
But I disagree. There have been plenty of spells in the "low cost, high value" category before, but even in it's Flamewaker heyday, it was never more than a tier 2 deck, being so by the good matchup vs combo druid. It was also one of the least polarizing archetypes out there.
I also strongly dislike that blizzard says the card still will see play. No, it won't a 2-mana 1-3 that requires 2 more cards to be ahead of the Yeti curve is simply far too weak. Amani Berserker is much stronger.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Face kappa. There are the neutral 1-drops, and Clockwork Gnome and Kabal Lackey could be ok.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
it doesn't see any play now, maybe he will come back in another meta, all you see is even Shamam which rush the hell out of you
Unfortunately in wild the deck will still exist (well Burn Mage anyway) since they have over 30 damage burst just from spells, not counting pings or random minion attacks.
I guess now I'll never get my golden mage.
What was Blizzard thinking netting a tier 2 class ?
Don't count on it... I have tried to make facefreeze work for a while, and it is just too weak vs anything with armorgain, even with the Wyrms.
The viable decks will be Big Spell, Reno and Exodia freeze. I have limited faith in elementals and secret decks after this nerf.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Late as fuck but ok