Hearthpwn

Quote from SuicidOr >>

I'm not sure I fully understand all the ranting about this card. Sure, it has some potential in wild, drawing the Togwaggle combo, but there is also Dirty Rat and Deathlord as counters. And anyone will know what you are trying to pull off once this card has been played. 

In standard, it could draw you Malygos, but having Maly in your hand does not win you the game. Having more big minions at turn 4 doesn't help you either. And you need to find this card at the opportune moment too, before you draw the targets naturally, otherwise it is just dead in your hand. The comparison is probably not the best one, but I played a lot of Togwaggle Warlock lately, and there have been many, many games in which I drew Hemet so late in the game that it was of no help (at least still a 6/6 body in a pinch, something that the melon can not offer). 

To me this card seems like a variation on recruit, with the upside that you can choose when to play your minion, but the downside that you have to pay full price and lose tempo going fishing for this in your deck. I would argue that Floop is far scarier than this. Besides, there is still no way to ensure your Moonfires and stuff are in your hand any faster with this, and as somebody else pointed out, if you have a lot of big minions in you hand, you run the risk of overdrawing other combo pieces. 

That being said, it is a very interesting card, with a lot of potential, but I doubt it is going to be as easy as putting it in a Witchwood Maly list and be golden. I think any deck that runs this will have to make specific adjustments and trade offs to get the most out of it, and because of the tempo loss, any deck that relies on the melon might simply get smorked before turn 7. Plus, we haven't seen yet if there are any anti combo tech cards coming in the remaining 50 cards or so. Or any other crazy combo pieces that rival what Druid is supposedly going to be able to do. 

 

 you a druid player? 

ha ha. 

sorry but I can see how this thread is going to go... everyone that complains doesn't play druid, everyone that defends, plays druid and desperately will defend the broke back mountain of a card :D 

No sweat bro, I'm probs going to be playing some twig deck myself at some point. I love togglewaggle and been dying to get my hands on the cards for one of the decks. might warrant a togglewaggle/twig craft if I'm not seeing anything super viable from warlock this time around. 

I reckon rogue will be my inventive decks and I will mostly likely go with druid or mage for something ladder viable. (druid is looking the best so far though)

I play mostly Wild lately, and now that Mill Rogue and Toggwaggle Druid got MORE consistent/powerful, i'm gonna have to stay away. Very sad..... 

Quote from SuicidOr >>

it is just dead in your hand...

 What means is not in the last 3 cards in your deck, when you reach the conditions, what will be much more faster with so many draw/ramp, your win condition is ready to go.

Hell, some games you will OTK your opponent with Malygos copy before they have a chance to play the Lich King...

Very interesting! 4 mana draw 4 is really overpowered, especially 4 targeted minions. Instant combo. But you sacrifice one of the most important turns, because doing nothing on turn 4 is really bad. This card also has negative synergy with UI, you really don't want to draw THIS much. On the other hand you can finish you biology project and gain 4 mana on turn 2, then draw 4 minions on turn 3 with this and on turn 4 you ramp to 8 mana. Really interesting and potentially overpowered.

OP? 

Thats a LOT of value packed into one card

So how many copies do you play in your deck? If you have only one you risk not drawing this before you draw your targets, thus making it a dead card. Do you play two for consistency with the risk of one of the copies being useless later in the game? This card appears to be OP just because you  see the current meta and you see malydruid on top, but  I remember when rebuke was revealed and everyone lost their minds because even pally was around, and look at what happened in the end. It is definitely a strong draw card ( in a class which has already enough draw), but it is not crystal clear for me that we are approaching melonstone yet.

Quote from IP42 >>

Very interesting! 4 mana draw 4 is really overpowered, especially 4 targeted minions. Instant combo. But you sacrifice one of the most important turns, because doing nothing on turn 4 is really bad. This card also has negative synergy with UI, you really don't want to draw THIS much. On the other hand you can finish you biology project and gain 4 mana on turn 2, then draw 4 minions on turn 3 with this and on turn 4 you ramp to 8 mana. Really interesting and potentially overpowered.

Do nothing and ramp with Nourish is not an uncommon move it usually happens at T3-T5.. Big Druids can afford to "do nothing" mid game because they have so much armor gain and they have a very efficient removal with spellstone. this isn't much of a Tempo loss at later rounds too compared to other draw cards like sprint. This card sort of pales in comparison to UI.. But UI is also a broken card to begin with..

Quote from SuicidOr >>

In standard, it could draw you Malygos, but having Maly in your hand does not win you the game. Having more big minions at turn 4 doesn't help you either. And you need to find this card at the opportune moment too, before you draw the targets naturally, otherwise it is just dead in your hand. The comparison is probably not the best one, but I played a lot of Togwaggle Warlock lately, and there have been many, many games in which I drew Hemet so late in the game that it was of no help (at least still a 6/6 body in a pinch, something that the melon can not offer). 

 

You are right. There will be a lot of times where this is a dead card in hand. However the key thing is to realize that this card is only dead when you already have the cards you want in hand. A card draw card that is dead because you already have your combo pieces isn't a bad thing.

Quote from IP42 >>

Very interesting! 4 mana draw 4 is really overpowered, especially 4 targeted minions. Instant combo. But you sacrifice one of the most important turns, because doing nothing on turn 4 is really bad. This card also has negative synergy with UI, you really don't want to draw THIS much. On the other hand you can finish you biology project and gain 4 mana on turn 2, then draw 4 minions on turn 3 with this and on turn 4 you ramp to 8 mana. Really interesting and potentially overpowered.

 It's a draw card.  There is literally no reason you have to play it on four.  It does NOT have negative synergy with UI.  You draw UI with this card, and can just sit on it till you need it.  If you don't need it, don't cast it.  Which is generally bad but since UI didn't take up one of your normal draws it's fine.  Also and more importantly you very well may want to draw THIS MUCH.  Gotta dig for those combo pieces.  There is a 99.99999999% change this thing is overpowered.  The only way it won't be is if some card is printed that screws druid up on a fundamental level.

Quote from torchic44 >>

This isn’t the Druid’s legendary spell? This is a card that really need to be evaluated before printing because this can break any class... and they gave it to the class that can ramp into this. Wtf thought this was a good idea? 

My first thought was "How is this NOT the legendary Druid spell?" as well. I mean, who in their right mind would be in need to play two copies? You just play it, draw 4 (specific!) cards and proceed to crush your opponent afterwards. I'm lost for words and could've never imagined they would be able to break Ultimate Infestation's record for being one of the most broken Druid spells ever.

Quote from asteroidm >>

Quote from IP42 >>

Very interesting! 4 mana draw 4 is really overpowered, especially 4 targeted minions. Instant combo. But you sacrifice one of the most important turns, because doing nothing on turn 4 is really bad. This card also has negative synergy with UI, you really don't want to draw THIS much. On the other hand you can finish you biology project and gain 4 mana on turn 2, then draw 4 minions on turn 3 with this and on turn 4 you ramp to 8 mana. Really interesting and potentially overpowered.

 It's a draw card.  There is literally no reason you have to play it on four.  It does NOT have negative synergy with UI.  You draw UI with this card, and can just sit on it till you need it.  If you don't need it, don't cast it.  Which is generally bad but since UI didn't take up one of your normal draws it's fine.  Also and more importantly you very well may want to draw THIS MUCH.  Gotta dig for those combo pieces.  There is a 99.99999999% change this thing is overpowered.  The only way it won't be is if some card is printed that screws druid up on a fundamental level.

 You can't draw Ultimate Infestation with Juicy Psychmelon since it is not a minion.

Quote from SuicidOr >>

I'm not sure I fully understand all the ranting about this card. Sure, it has some potential in wild, drawing the Togwaggle combo, but there is also Dirty Rat and Deathlord as counters. And anyone will know what you are trying to pull off once this card has been played. 

In standard, it could draw you Malygos, but having Maly in your hand does not win you the game. Having more big minions at turn 4 doesn't help you either. And you need to find this card at the opportune moment too, before you draw the targets naturally, otherwise it is just dead in your hand. The comparison is probably not the best one, but I played a lot of Togwaggle Warlock lately, and there have been many, many games in which I drew Hemet so late in the game that it was of no help (at least still a 6/6 body in a pinch, something that the melon can not offer). 

To me this card seems like a variation on recruit, with the upside that you can choose when to play your minion, but the downside that you have to pay full price and lose tempo going fishing for this in your deck. I would argue that Floop is far scarier than this. Besides, there is still no way to ensure your Moonfires and stuff are in your hand any faster with this, and as somebody else pointed out, if you have a lot of big minions in you hand, you run the risk of overdrawing other combo pieces. 

That being said, it is a very interesting card, with a lot of potential, but I doubt it is going to be as easy as putting it in a Witchwood Maly list and be golden. I think any deck that runs this will have to make specific adjustments and trade offs to get the most out of it, and because of the tempo loss, any deck that relies on the melon might simply get smorked before turn 7. Plus, we haven't seen yet if there are any anti combo tech cards coming in the remaining 50 cards or so. Or any other crazy combo pieces that rival what Druid is supposedly going to be able to do. 

 

 In your VERY first paragraph you actually state a reason why this card is amazing. 

been many, many games in which I drew Hemet so late in the game that it was of no help ".

   Putting a one of of this card into the deck helps to offset that very issue.  So for Maly druid for example, if you draw Malygos, GREAT you have one of your key combo pieces.  If you don't draw him because he is buried you are more likely to draw this card instead.  Which will pull one of your key pieces from your deck to your hand.  Additionally do not get caught up on "this is turn four so how does this help?" stuff.  First off, this is a draw card.  Just like other draw cards you don't generally play them on curve.  Secondly LOL THIS IS DRUID!  Turn four is just as often 7 mana for druid.  They may have played this on turn freaking two knowing they could ramp into their first 7 drop on turn 4.  

You've heard the concept of deck thinning?  Drawing into your big minions may not help your hand RIGHT NOW but it WILL help future draws.  It actually makes things like UI or Nourish even better draw mechanics as they are more likely to hit the smaller mana cost pieces.   Over drawing is always something you got to look out for but it's something that is mostly controllable so just pay attention and it won't be an issue.

Also I won't just stick it in a witchwood maly deck cause that would be stupid.  I will stick into a Boomsday Project Maly deck WITH floop.  Also quit talking about the loss tempo.  First you don't have to play this on curve it's CARD DRAW.  You play it when you need it.  Again it's there to make getting the combo more regular which it will 100% do.  Druids regularly use Nourish to just draw cards then just pass turn.  Lastly MalyDruid isn't a tempo deck!  MOST of your turns are already tempo losses for the express goal of finding and using your combo.  This thing is cheap enough Druid can do all kinds of other things on the same turn to keep from dying. 

 

 

Quote from Horkinger >>

Quote from asteroidm >>

Quote from IP42 >>

Very interesting! 4 mana draw 4 is really overpowered, especially 4 targeted minions. Instant combo. But you sacrifice one of the most important turns, because doing nothing on turn 4 is really bad. This card also has negative synergy with UI, you really don't want to draw THIS much. On the other hand you can finish you biology project and gain 4 mana on turn 2, then draw 4 minions on turn 3 with this and on turn 4 you ramp to 8 mana. Really interesting and potentially overpowered.

 It's a draw card.  There is literally no reason you have to play it on four.  It does NOT have negative synergy with UI.  You draw UI with this card, and can just sit on it till you need it.  If you don't need it, don't cast it.  Which is generally bad but since UI didn't take up one of your normal draws it's fine.  Also and more importantly you very well may want to draw THIS MUCH.  Gotta dig for those combo pieces.  There is a 99.99999999% change this thing is overpowered.  The only way it won't be is if some card is printed that screws druid up on a fundamental level.

 You can't draw Ultimate Infestation with Juicy Psychmelon since it is not a minion.

 ah yeah I could improve my reading comprehension.  In any event there really isn't any anti synergy there.  

 

As I only play Wild for fun purposes, for now I can't seem to find a proper purpose in Standard. Maly Druid doesn't need it, Taunt Druid is refined (although I give it a lot of credit for tutoring LK/Taunt Dragons/Hadronox). I'm torn but it is without a doubt a very strong card on it's own. Let's see what more cards Blizz brings to the table

Quote from asteroidm >>

 

Also I won't just stick it in a witchwood maly deck cause that would be stupid.  I will stick into a Boomsday Project Maly deck WITH floop.  Also quit talking about the loss tempo.  First you don't have to play this on curve it's CARD DRAW.  You play it when you need it.  Again it's there to make getting the combo more regular which it will 100% do.  Druids regularly use Nourish to just draw cards then just pass turn.  Lastly MalyDruid isn't a tempo deck!  MOST of your turns are already tempo losses for the express goal of finding and using your combo.  This thing is cheap enough Druid can do all kinds of other things on the same turn to keep from dying. 

 I'm still not convinced. There is still a lot of things that need to come together in order for the combo to work. Sure, the melon makes it more consistent, but even then, it is nowhere near 100% at turn 4, after perfect ramp and everything.

Second, already there is tech options against the Maly combo. Just put Nerubian Unraveler in your deck, which doubtlessly a lot of people will do if Maly Druid becomes too frequent. There is Rebuke if you play Paladin. There is the Demonic Project if you play Warlock.

Third, the Floop Maly, should it come to that, is only 3/4 instead of 4/12, so definitely more manageable. 

The point here is that the melon alone does not give the Maly Druid deck a 100% winrate all of a sudden, or even 80%. Some people will come up with counters, you don't even need to use your own brain, some streamer will, and then you just netdeck. 

It seems likely that Druid will be strong in the new expansion, but what do you expect. If it wasn't Druid it would be some other class. No need to worry, there will always be something you can complain about. Most people have a win rate hovering around 50%, and I doubt that one strong deck, or, in this discussion, ONE CARD is going to change much of that. And I also doubt that the meta will be unplayable for anybody not playing druid. At least I still had fun with other decks during the Pirate Warrior times, the Jade Druid times, the Big Priest times, the Overload Shaman times, the you-name-it times. If you don't think you can adjust, don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

 

Quote from SuicidOr >>

Quote from asteroidm >>

 

Also I won't just stick it in a witchwood maly deck cause that would be stupid.  I will stick into a Boomsday Project Maly deck WITH floop.  Also quit talking about the loss tempo.  First you don't have to play this on curve it's CARD DRAW.  You play it when you need it.  Again it's there to make getting the combo more regular which it will 100% do.  Druids regularly use Nourish to just draw cards then just pass turn.  Lastly MalyDruid isn't a tempo deck!  MOST of your turns are already tempo losses for the express goal of finding and using your combo.  This thing is cheap enough Druid can do all kinds of other things on the same turn to keep from dying. 

 I'm still not convinced. There is still a lot of things that need to come together in order for the combo to work. Sure, the melon makes it more consistent, but even then, it is nowhere near 100% at turn 4, after perfect ramp and everything.

Second, already there is tech options against the Maly combo. Just put Nerubian Unraveler in your deck, which doubtlessly a lot of people will do if Maly Druid becomes too frequent. There is Rebuke if you play Paladin. There is the Demonic Project if you play Warlock.

Third, the Floop Maly, should it come to that, is only 3/4 instead of 4/12, so definitely more manageable. 

The point here is that the melon alone does not give the Maly Druid deck a 100% winrate all of a sudden, or even 80%. Some people will come up with counters, you don't even need to use your own brain, some streamer will, and then you just netdeck. 

It seems likely that Druid will be strong in the new expansion, but what do you expect. If it wasn't Druid it would be some other class. No need to worry, there will always be something you can complain about. Most people have a win rate hovering around 50%, and I doubt that one strong deck, or, in this discussion, ONE CARD is going to change much of that. And I also doubt that the meta will be unplayable for anybody not playing druid. At least I still had fun with other decks during the Pirate Warrior times, the Jade Druid times, the Big Priest times, the Overload Shaman times, the you-name-it times. If you don't think you can adjust, don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

 

 I agree with your sentiments although I will say that Maly purpose isn’t really to stick so a 3/4 maly is still strong for its purpose.  Very strong!!

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this(read first 3 pages), but with how the card reads, you'll need all minions with the listed cost in your deck for this card to get you any minions so you'll need at least 2 of each 7,8,9 and 10 costed minions in the deck list to have it consistently proc. With that said, the decks this goes into may end up being clunky and getting destroyed by aggressive builds.

Quote from jiggs >>

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this(read first 3 pages), but with how the card reads, you'll need all minions with the listed cost in your deck for this card to get you any minions so you'll need at least 2 of each 7,8,9 and 10 costed minions in the deck list to have it consistently proc. With that said, the decks this goes into may end up being clunky and getting destroyed by aggressive builds.

 I never looked at it like that. If that is indeed the case then I doubt it would see much play other then as an emergency draw factor perhaps for wild Druid with togwaggle. 

Quote from jiggs >>

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this(read first 3 pages), but with how the card reads, you'll need all minions with the listed cost in your deck for this card to get you any minions so you'll need at least 2 of each 7,8,9 and 10 costed minions in the deck list to have it consistently proc. With that said, the decks this goes into may end up being clunky and getting destroyed by aggressive builds.

 Put SP, the giant 8/8, play this card and draw the giant and all combo pieces, the aggro player only hope is go all-in trying to kill the druid before the already draw big guns, you play SP + free 4/4 + free 8/8. in turn 4 or 5 and gain 12 armor in next one.

Aggro have to be GOD draw from 1 to 4 to have a chance.

Quote from SuicidOr >>

Quote from asteroidm >>

 

Also I won't just stick it in a witchwood maly deck cause that would be stupid.  I will stick into a Boomsday Project Maly deck WITH floop.  Also quit talking about the loss tempo.  First you don't have to play this on curve it's CARD DRAW.  You play it when you need it.  Again it's there to make getting the combo more regular which it will 100% do.  Druids regularly use Nourish to just draw cards then just pass turn.  Lastly MalyDruid isn't a tempo deck!  MOST of your turns are already tempo losses for the express goal of finding and using your combo.  This thing is cheap enough Druid can do all kinds of other things on the same turn to keep from dying. 

 I'm still not convinced. There is still a lot of things that need to come together in order for the combo to work. Sure, the melon makes it more consistent, but even then, it is nowhere near 100% at turn 4, after perfect ramp and everything.

Second, already there is tech options against the Maly combo. Just put Nerubian Unraveler in your deck, which doubtlessly a lot of people will do if Maly Druid becomes too frequent. There is Rebuke if you play Paladin. There is the Demonic Project if you play Warlock.

Third, the Floop Maly, should it come to that, is only 3/4 instead of 4/12, so definitely more manageable. 

The point here is that the melon alone does not give the Maly Druid deck a 100% winrate all of a sudden, or even 80%. Some people will come up with counters, you don't even need to use your own brain, some streamer will, and then you just netdeck. 

It seems likely that Druid will be strong in the new expansion, but what do you expect. If it wasn't Druid it would be some other class. No need to worry, there will always be something you can complain about. Most people have a win rate hovering around 50%, and I doubt that one strong deck, or, in this discussion, ONE CARD is going to change much of that. And I also doubt that the meta will be unplayable for anybody not playing druid. At least I still had fun with other decks during the Pirate Warrior times, the Jade Druid times, the Big Priest times, the Overload Shaman times, the you-name-it times. If you don't think you can adjust, don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

 

 A lot of things do need to come together, that is why this card is so strong dude.  It helps you bring those things together in a big way.  

Your second point is completely moot.  Maly Druid is ALREADY a tier one deck and no one is teching Nerubian against is now.  No one is running rebuke either.  Demonic Project may get run, we don't know yet.  Even if it does it hits one minion of the four you just drew not even counting whether or not you already had some in your hand.  If anything this card actually helps buffer against Demonic Project.  Just because there are some counters doesn't mean that they will/are being utilized. The deck is already very good now and they aren't.

What is your point about floop maly?  Do you even play Maly druid?  You don't drop malygos and hope he sticks to the board.  The point behind Floop Maly is that he is cheap and I can play more spells behind him or even Faceless him.  So no, Floop maly is not easier to deal with.  He is much harder to deal with.

It's become quite apparent you don't play Maly druid.  You keep mentioning turn 4.  IT'S CARD DRAW!!  You are NOT aiming for this on turn four.  I don't know why you keep bringing up the curve.  Druids break the fucking curve anyway.  You also don't understand how or why floop would be added to a maly deck (it's not for the stats).   At any rate if you haven't played Maly Druid much I suggest trying it, you'll see what I mean.  

Quit strawmaning me dude.  I am not complaining so stop speaking as if I was.  I love the card and I am fine with Druid being strong.  This isn't even a point I brought up.  I said it was strong, you said you didn't think it was as strong as people thought and I disagreed.  I never once mentioned the druid was going to be op op and omg druid 100% winrate omg.  

This card is strong for more reasons than just Malygos however.  Any deck that will  run a few key high cost minions will want to run this.