Hearthpwn

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

 

Quote from Kaladin >>

 

 Posted this in another thread but I think it would be a cool idea.  The stats are probably wrong though.  

 

Personally that would be nightmarish, but I'm fine with it existing, but the stats would be much lower than those. We can see from cards like Eater of Secrets how powerful the Secret destruction effect is considered, and I agree with the value it has been assigned, since I constantly play Secret based strategies and I know just how dependant the decks are on them.

I can see the point of both sides of the argument, so wild idea off the top of my head: What if they "nerfed" Ice Block by making it a legendary spell (obviously , they would have to introduce legendary spells in the next expansion then). This would keep the unique effect, but would prevent it from it stalling the game for two entire turns, which is often a level of non-interactivity that is just not balanced. During those two turns, the mage is drawing cards (usually assembling combo pieces), clearing the board, and generally just getting closer to its win condition, while the opponent, if not running some tech card, can do essentially nothing for those two turns.

I can live with the effect for one turn, given the sacrifice to tempo and whatnot, but that tempo loss and "doing nothing" aspect of the card is completely negligible when a mage uses the second one after the first one is popped in the late game.

"The card IS interactive"

HA! worst joke of today.

thank you!!! too few people are expressing this

Quote from SlydE >>

So, there has been a lot of speculation about Ice Block moving to the hall of fame, and Blizzard has insinuated that they are looking at the possibility. The community is getting more and more sure this will actually happen, and many are praising the move. I think this is an AWFUL move, however, for a number of reasons:

1: The power level of Ice Block:
Ice Block is a unique card that has followed mage's up- and down swings in the meta. It gives you time, but no value, no tempo, no removal and no board presence, hence it's "terrible" rating in arena. The 2 most cancerous mage decks since the game release, Flamewaker tempo mage and mech mage did not run Ice Block, and the card would be an awful choice in those decks. As I write this, Ice Block is sitting right around a 50% winrate at higher levels, and secret mage is an easily countered tier 2 deck.

3: The card IS interactive
Ice Block is a often talked about as a non-interactive card, but I think this is false. The mage does make important sacrifices to get the card in play, making it up to the opponent to take advantage: How early can you pop it? How can you push your board advantage without overextending? Is there a way to make them take damage on their own turn? How to put the mage at as low health as possible before poping?

It is not the card itself it is the possibility of getting the ice block many times in a random way that is the problem

And now the mage has a lot of armor, the 2 things can not coexist for long

I don't agree with everything you said, but I do think that Ice Block does add a lot to the Mage class identity. I think the idea that mage has survivability that is wholly different than other classes makes it a very unique and interesting class. Warrior has armor gain, warlock has heal, mage has two Ice Blocks. The problem is Blizzard screwed up that formula by allowing mages to generate more Ice Blocks. In a world where mage only has two Ice Blocks and no other source of significant life gain everything is fine, but now mages can get more than two Ice Blocks and they also have other sources of significant life gain so things are no longer fine.

Quote from DennisReynoIds >>

sorry but its just bullshit to lose a game you've technically already one once or even twice. 

its like last stand in call of duty, and we both know how much everyone LOVED that... 

Quote from DennisReynoIds >>

sorry but its just bullshit to lose a game you've technically already one once or even twice. 

its like last stand in call of duty, and we both know how much everyone LOVED that... 

stop complaining aout ice block being an op card. it is actually not that op. it is actually only as op as the person using it. their are many ways to play around ice block for instance

rogue: you know how many cards are in your opponents deck, your opponent has alluneth, you mill theeir deck. ice block does not trigger and they die to fatigue damage on their own turn

other mage: you play explosive runes when you believe ice block is about to trigger. the opponent stupidly plays a 1 health minion with 5 or less heatlh. the opponent dies due to taking the damage on their turn

you play eater of secrets when you think ice block is in play 

you attack the opponent until they have only 1 health left (or 2) then hit them to trigger ice block, thus guaranteeing they die next turn. if the opponent has not set up their plays properly they will just concede.

you counterspell it. ice block is either played early game as a guaranteed trigger to medihv's valet or at the last moment.

you flare your opponent and they lose all secrets (flare is a classic card)

ice block is not op. it is not a defensive card. it is an offensive card that is meant to allow the mage to due damage withoiut having to worry about taking face. ice block is only as powerful as the player who is using it. by itself it is a blah card that really has a lot of drawbacks since it is a secret and secrets do not trigger on your own turn, you can still lose.

So why nerf Fiery War Axe?

Quote from TanookiJack >>

 

Quote from DennisReynoIds >>

sorry but its just bullshit to lose a game you've technically already one once or even twice. 

its like last stand in call of duty, and we both know how much everyone LOVED that... 

 

 The problem is that you didn't win it. The mage played a card that prevented their death, just like AoE Freeze, a large taunt, or any other defensive tool. Just because it didn't make their HP go up or put a shield icon on the board doesn't mean they forfeited that 3 mana and you gained an advantage.

It looks like you're winning, but only if you don't know any better or have decided that you would rather not acknowledge your opponent has played a card that resists a loss. Ice Block is simply a healing card that, much to the opponent's dismay, heals for exactly  the amount of health at the point of death that would leave you at 1hp. Choosing to believe you've "won" already is willful ignorance.

Quote from Belzzzz >>

Ice Block wasn't a problem until they added Discover and "here, get some random spells" cards. Having 4 Ice Blocks in a single game kind of feel like cheating ...

You make very good points.

I don't think the card will get hall of fame'd by the way, it is far too easy to control it, just make sure a kezan 2.0 or 3.0 is always within the rotation and whatever combo mage is up will never spiral out of balance.

Hmmm.

Last year, the devs explained their decision to relegate Ice Lance to the Hall of Fame -

"Freeze Mage is a fun deck that has been around for over three years now, and we’d like to see more variety with Mage decks after each major release. This move allows Freeze Mage to continue existing in Wild, while creating more variety in Standard."

The evergreen set provides Control Mage with a core of about twenty cards. The game plan for the archetype hasn't changed since the open beta, regardless of whether the control deck is Freeze Mage, Reno Mage, Quest Mage, or any other variety of Control Mage - use the same twenty evergreen cards to stall the game long enough to draw your win condition. None of the OP's points address the most salient issue - Blizz doesn't want Standard to have the same decks, playing the same twenty evergreen cards, year after year. They relegated Ice Lance last year, and they'll keep chipping away at those twenty evergreen cards until they are happy that Mage won't be pigeon-holed into playing the same control deck year after year. Ice Block is arguably the most powerful stall card in the format - in any event, it's difficult to imagine any other stall card being released that could squeeze Ice Block out of Control Mage.

Ice Block is not really a very interactive card. Rotating it would open up a lot of design space and they would be able to make other mage stalling cards that would be more acceptable.

Its seen as a limiting design space card because of a mage being able to win with sometimes no board because of it, and the fact that it can consistently be discovered. In standard there is one neutral secret counter rotating out, and 2 eaters can't do Much about 3 or 4 iceblocks played per game. It is fine on paper but with Exodia mage and mage being able to generate so many spells with primordial and the spellstone , it's becoming a problem. Mage has arcane artificer to compensate defensively so they should be fine. It just promotes an unhealthy playstyle blizz doesnt want

In standard there is one neutral secret counter rotating out, and 2 eaters can't do Much about 3 or 4 iceblocks played per game.

I'm all for rotating it, but that's not really a valid reason for it. You play Eater on the turn you're going to pop the block; the number they can generate is irrelevant at that point.

Quote from AProudMurloc >>

Its seen as a limiting design space card because of a mage being able to win with sometimes no board because of it, and the fact that it can consistently be discovered. In standard there is one neutral secret counter rotating out, and 2 eaters can't do Much about 3 or 4 iceblocks played per game. It is fine on paper but with Exodia mage and mage being able to generate so many spells with primordial and the spellstone , it's becoming a problem. Mage has arcane artificer to compensate defensively so they should be fine. It just promotes an unhealthy playstyle blizz doesnt want