So yesterday I was testing some combo deck with a friend and did not quite understand the interaction going on between Kel'Thuzad and two Blood of The Ancient Ones.
I don't understand it. As I see it, the situation at the end of those two turns was the same and therefore the outcome should have been the same. If someone has an explanation I would be grateful.
I don't think the merging added to the death count, since you would've had 3 Blood of The Ancient One's at the end of the first turn. The only way I see it working is if a Blood of The Ancient One had already died before that turn you explained.
During my first turn, only one BoTAO died and KT was not on the board. The second turn CC died, summoning 2x BoTAO, which were killed merging into TAO. So only two BoTAO died and they died due to the merging... Which is exactly what happened the turn after, except KT did not resurrect.
As i see it, i think it is a matter if order in which it is played. Your Cube is already on the board before Kelly is even played. You destroyed the cube spawning 2 bloods. In this case the bloods are technically there on the field before kelly. Hence, the combining of both bloods trigger before the re-summoning of kelly.
After the next turn, you have 2 more bloods which are on the field AFTER Kelly is played. Hence kelly will re-summon stuff first, then the bloods combine.
This interaction is similar to Ice block and Ice barrier for example, or Potion of Polymorph and Mirror entity. If u play barrier first, u will gain 8 armor first before being immune with iceblock later after receiving lethal damage; vice versa if u play iceblock first, u will be immune and barrier will not trigger. Likewise, playing potion of polymorph first in addition to mirror entity, will net you both 1/1 sheep, while playing mirror entity first will end up getting you their minion while they end up with a sheep.
My bad. The ice barrier does trigger but after ice block so say, you are at 1 health, with ice block up first. Upon attack, you will end up with 1 health 8 armor and immunity. There are many other examples online. Although it is a bit outdated, idk if it still works like this.
That is the question of having: 1hp + 8 armor = 9, attack of >9 power will result in ice block triggering as otherwise the hero would be dead. Didnt think about before read your post thanks!
The question is the order of the triggers of end of turn effects.
T1: After the cube dies, you get 2 bloods and play a KT. End of turn: bloods got in play first, trigger first, when KT triggers, both bloods are dead.
T2: The bloods revived by KT got into play after him, therefore KT triggers first, there is no dead bloods, and bloods trigger after KT.
Just tought about that. Kripp posted a video saying this combo would result in infinite ancient ones (source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CEEEKQRVEs), but I just realized it would not happen infinite times.
As i see it, i think it is a matter if order in which it is played. Your Cube is already on the board before Kelly is even played. You destroyed the cube spawning 2 bloods. In this case the bloods are technically there on the field before kelly. Hence, the combining of both bloods trigger before the re-summoning of kelly.
After the next turn, you have 2 more bloods which are on the field AFTER Kelly is played. Hence kelly will re-summon stuff first, then the bloods combine.
(...)
This is the solution. The "end of turn" effects Trigger in the order of play/summon. After they re-summoned, both blood of the ancient one are triggering after Kel-thuzad. And therefore you do not get any bloods any more.
Thanks for all your answers! But one last question: if on T2 I had played KT first, then killed off the cube, would that count as the bloods being summoned after KT and therefore result in KT not resurrecting them or not?
Kripps video is where I got the inspiration from to create a consistent combo. But I guess infinite Ancient Ones won‘t happen with KT.
Thanks for all your answers! But one last question: if on T2 I had played KT first, then killed off the cube, would that count as the bloods being summoned after KT and therefore result in KT not resurrecting them or not?
Kripps video is where I got the inspiration from to create a consistent combo. But I guess infinite Ancient Ones won‘t happen with KT.
If u do it like that, I believe Kelly's resummon will trigger first before the bloods. The end result should be 1x kelly, 1x cube, 1x ancient one, similar to your original T3 except without the extra ancient one
It's the order you play them. In that order they activate their effects. So I think that KT would not have resurrected them. It s the same reason why a rag/ysera/yshaarj do not trigger their effects when they are ressurected or pulled from yshaarj.
I'm not sure. I know that Kelthuzad has done some strange things in the past. There used to be a bug, for instance, where if Ragnaros killed Kelthuzad on the other side, Kelthuzad would somehow resurrect himself after Rag procced his thing :p Now, however, there's a different bug, where if Ragnaros kills something other than Kelthuzad, Kel won't resurrect it at all. (At least I think this is still there; I haven't seen Rag and Kel both on the board at once in forever)
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So yesterday I was testing some combo deck with a friend and did not quite understand the interaction going on between Kel'Thuzad and two Blood of The Ancient Ones.
With Kel'Thuzad, Shadow Word: Death, Blood of The Ancient One and Carnivorous Cube in hand I played Emperor Thaurissan and Drakkari Enchanter. Then I played Temporus to gain two turns.
After my opponents two turns, I played Blood of The Ancient One (7 mana) and destroyed it with Carnivorous Cube (3 mana). On my next turn, I played Inner Fire (1 mana) on Carnivorous Cube and killed it with Shadow Word: Death (1 mana), gaining 2x Blood of The Ancient One. After that I played Kel'Thuzad (6 mana).
At the end of that turn, I had Kel'Thuzad and 2x Blood of The Ancient One on the board. The latter formed The Ancient One and Kel'Thuzad resurrected 1x Carnivorous Cube and 2x Blood of The Ancient One (apparently merging into The Ancient One counts as dying?).
So far so good.
The next turn, I had the exact same situation at the end of my turn: 1x Kel'Thuzad, 2x Blood of The Ancient One (+1x The Ancient One which survived my friend's turn). But after that turn, Kel'Thuzad did not resurrect 2x Blood of The Ancient One after those merged into a second The Ancient One.
I don't understand it. As I see it, the situation at the end of those two turns was the same and therefore the outcome should have been the same. If someone has an explanation I would be grateful.
I don't think the merging added to the death count, since you would've had 3 Blood of The Ancient One's at the end of the first turn. The only way I see it working is if a Blood of The Ancient One had already died before that turn you explained.
From https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Blood_of_The_Ancient_One : "Despite the ambiguity of the word "merge", the successful activation of this minion's triggered effect simply results in the Blood of The Ancient Ones being immediately destroyed using a Forced Death Phase, and The Ancient One being summoned."
During my first turn, only one BoTAO died and KT was not on the board. The second turn CC died, summoning 2x BoTAO, which were killed merging into TAO. So only two BoTAO died and they died due to the merging... Which is exactly what happened the turn after, except KT did not resurrect.
As i see it, i think it is a matter if order in which it is played. Your Cube is already on the board before Kelly is even played. You destroyed the cube spawning 2 bloods. In this case the bloods are technically there on the field before kelly. Hence, the combining of both bloods trigger before the re-summoning of kelly.
After the next turn, you have 2 more bloods which are on the field AFTER Kelly is played. Hence kelly will re-summon stuff first, then the bloods combine.
This interaction is similar to Ice block and Ice barrier for example, or Potion of Polymorph and Mirror entity. If u play barrier first, u will gain 8 armor first before being immune with iceblock later after receiving lethal damage; vice versa if u play iceblock first, u will be immune and barrier will not trigger. Likewise, playing potion of polymorph first in addition to mirror entity, will net you both 1/1 sheep, while playing mirror entity first will end up getting you their minion while they end up with a sheep.
Doesnt ice barrier triggers first always because its trigger is an attack but not the hit to the face? dont confuse people
The goal of all life is death.
Hmm thanks so far! Sounds possible. Since the patch which changed how events are resolved and queued, I am getting confused as hell.
I might look into that and test both cases (2x blood first or KT first).
The bloods got back the first because they died from the cube, not from the merging
English second language
That is the question of having: 1hp + 8 armor = 9, attack of >9 power will result in ice block triggering as otherwise the hero would be dead. Didnt think about before read your post thanks!
The goal of all life is death.
The question is the order of the triggers of end of turn effects.
T1: After the cube dies, you get 2 bloods and play a KT. End of turn: bloods got in play first, trigger first, when KT triggers, both bloods are dead.
T2: The bloods revived by KT got into play after him, therefore KT triggers first, there is no dead bloods, and bloods trigger after KT.
Just tought about that. Kripp posted a video saying this combo would result in infinite ancient ones (source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CEEEKQRVEs), but I just realized it would not happen infinite times.
This makes it sad, though, I believe in the past they would trigger at the same time?
The goal of all life is death.
Thanks for all your answers! But one last question: if on T2 I had played KT first, then killed off the cube, would that count as the bloods being summoned after KT and therefore result in KT not resurrecting them or not?
Kripps video is where I got the inspiration from to create a consistent combo. But I guess infinite Ancient Ones won‘t happen with KT.
It's the order you play them. In that order they activate their effects. So I think that KT would not have resurrected them. It s the same reason why a rag/ysera/yshaarj do not trigger their effects when they are ressurected or pulled from yshaarj.
I'm not sure. I know that Kelthuzad has done some strange things in the past. There used to be a bug, for instance, where if Ragnaros killed Kelthuzad on the other side, Kelthuzad would somehow resurrect himself after Rag procced his thing :p Now, however, there's a different bug, where if Ragnaros kills something other than Kelthuzad, Kel won't resurrect it at all. (At least I think this is still there; I haven't seen Rag and Kel both on the board at once in forever)