Patches will rotate next expansion, no need to nerf anything there.
Bonemare is good, but not OP in my opinion. It does have reasonable counterplay (just don't elave anything up turn 6) and it's actually a very important tool for midrange decks to get taunt in the later stages, which keep full aggro in check.
Corridor Creeper I agree is busted and should be nerfed as soon as possible. It ahs no counterplay, no required synergies and no real downsides. I'd like it if they just changed th effect to Friendly minions only in order to either make it a card for token/swarm decks (like Shaman or Zoolock), or to enemy minions only to make it a card for defensive decks that can use it as tempo after clearing the board. Right now it's just a boring must-have that doesn't require any deckbuilding.
Nerfing Vilepsine would be a terrible idea right before the rotation. Tempo Rogue already loses a bunch of tools (PIrate package is very important) and nerfing this card would inevitably just harm any slower Rogue decks as well, which would just seem unfair to the class
well Corridor Creeper is good in Evolve Shaman but I don't know if that deck is still meta. I mean, for Bonemare, I guess either making it give a minion 3-3 and taunt or make bonemare a 8 mana would be good changes.
Bro corridor creeper is good in every single hearthstone deck
You people realize the game maker intended Corridor Creeper to be a must-have, right? These people are CCG veterans, do you really think they didn't know exactly what they were doing? But whatever you want to tell yourself, an 'honest mistake', right?
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I really don't like cubelock, just because sometimes you feel powerless against the onslaught of Doomguards. The deck is cool, but it's sometimes too easy to get the Lackey combo. I think nerfing Dark Pact by increasing its mana cost would be a nice way of nerfing the deck, so that warlocks can't recruit a demon on their turn six. One less healing card in warlock won't really hurt their long game, as they already have so much heal and removal. If warlocks had to wait for a deathrattle to pop like every other class, I think the power level of the deck would decrease so that other classes have a shot at killing warlocks.
Honestly I never liked the "well the card will be rotating next expansion so who cares" line of thought. Unless you're committed to playing this game for a very long time (which to be fair, most of us on the forum probably are), saying Patches and Raza etc are going away in "just" a few months doesn't sound all that great. That is a lot of time.
Yeah it may be too late to do anything now, but my point is they should have done it sooner, but even back before K&C people were still saying "don't worry about those cards, they'll go away next year". It just feels lazy to me and is basically a big "we don't care about wild at all" gesture. To me it's an attitude like if you have a very noisy neighbor who annoys the hell out of you every day multiple times a day and you never do anything about it because "it's ok, they will move out in just a few months". Why not do something as soon as a problem is identified?
They have an opportunity to do that with Corridor Creeper - It is still pretty recent, and they have a chance to fix it (not sure what the best fix is, but several simple ones have been suggested) - why wait until the next release to do it? I know in the past they have said they don't like doing live tweaks like that, but I've never heard a compelling reason why the way they do it now is better.
Patches the Pirate gives too much tempo to the aggro decks it is not only free 1/1 with charge also it increases chance to draw topdeck by decreasing number of the cards to the 29 card.
Nah only if Blizzard make Control warrior viable again, then aggro is not really a problem for the meta. Even with the pathetic state of Warrior right now I still kill of these aggro paladin with ease. Control Warrior will keep every aggro deck honest
Scalebane is a good option to be nerfed too and some card to affect the annoying Raza combo priest... Talking about Raza, anyone knows when he will rotate out?
Jade druid still exists and I've always really disliked the way the works, so simple, too much unlimited power.
Pirate warrior has faded away but Patches (and his pirate package) is still in every single tempo, aggro and token deck. Dat deck/class diversity.
Corridor Creeper. In combo with Patches and....
Call To Arms - wow does this card feel unfair at times, why does juggler trigger off of it? Or ship's cannon? The deck thinning power is the worst side of it, making answering board clears far weaker than they should be - not only that but Creeper then further punishes the clear - Bad design. Reminds me somewhat of Mysterious Challenger with it's deck thinning.
Big Priest (and this is very much IMO, don't get offended) is possibly the worst designed deck of all time, just ahead of jade druid. High-rolling has always been a thing in hearthstone, but there has never been a deck so polarised - it's either super unfair or completely useless, no middle-ground, full auto-pilot deck, no fun for either player in either circumstance, just appalling. Blizzard hasn't just based nerfs in the past on raw power, but public perception of 'fun', this deck would be a primary candidate for that.
Raza Priest is oppressive, it just seems too versatile for a combo deck, though I can't deny it is fun to play.
Agreed, but mage NEEDS the life gain to survive as I can't tell you how many times I've been drilled down to near 0 before finally getting the DK out and being able to come back. Without the ability to come back, mage will struggle. I'm not claiming to be a superior player, so maybe you are right, but the life gain will be even more necessary if they HOF Ice Block.
BTW: Love the Demonic Tutor avatar. Haven't seen that card in a LONG time. 😉
This is my two cents on cube-lock but with no real solution ramblings..
I hope they don't target Dark Pact (by making it 2 mana as an example) otherwise we will find the same issue but with the use of Sacrificial Pactinstead, and this one won't be targeted by Skulking Geist. In my opinion the problem is not one specific card in this deck, and certainly nothing to do with void lord/doom-guard themselves. I think it's more with the recruitment mechanic within warlock (druid and warriors recruit mechanic takes much more "setting up.") I can't think of a solution to warlocks recruitment interactions, but I can only suggest that it was given too many tools to recruit a demon that cost the same mana. (Both the weapon and the minion are mid range.) Where as warrior's recruit feature, although it is not exclusive to one "type" of card like demon seem to work much better. )
I agree cube is a great card for other classes and when used it's not as over powered as it is with warlock. While I know cube lock can easily be countered, the simple fact is other decks have to go out their way to put these counters in place. (The amount of silence/geist has increased.)
Don't get me wrong I love having a slower paced meta, but for me there is no skill in waiting for one particular combination in your hand without having to struggle for survival. (Warlock has too many board clears and heals to struggle, same with priest - exodia mages I have a bit more respect for!)
I don't really have the solution for cubelock as such to me it is the only deck that really needs looked into as it won't loose any significant cards in the April rotation.
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I was going to make a thread like this but will just necro since this is supposed to be an ongoing discussion about problematic cards. I think Cubelock/Control Warlock is an issue and we need to do something, but the issue lies in: With what card do we work on to make this deck a little less reliable? (Side note: Yes, I know Dude Paladin is an issue too, but I figured I'd start here)
1. Doomguard has a large drawback and if the other two cards that can pull this for free are neutralized, it becomes pretty crap to play this since it's not guaranteed you won't retain your Carnivorous Cube and Dark Pact post-discard.
2. Voidlord costs 9 and again, without the free-play, it's still a good 9 drop but not nearly as powerful when you burn your whole turn just dropping this.
3. Dark Pact is one major enabler of the combo but can only be changed in a couple of ways. One way is to reduce its healing capability, but really I feel the only way to hit them where it hurts is to add a discard drawback to the card. However, the best way I see helping the situation would be:
4. Possessed Lackey is the main enabler allowing for such devastating pulls. You can basically just throw 2 demons in your deck and get immense value with no drawback on very little mana and resources. It kind of reminds me of dropping Barnes on 4 with Priest and pulling your Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound. I think the best way to fix this card is to do this:
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-It's better to have something you don't need, than to need something you don't have
Dark Pact Don't let cubelock benefit from this card than entire archetype will slow down Destroy a friendly minion with a tribe, Restore 8 healt to your minion.
DoomguardBattlecry: Gain charge, discard 2 random cards
Call to Arms Costs 6 mana they cannot make it cost 5 mana or odd paladin will benefit from this too much
Divine Favor If your opponent have more than 6 cards draw 4 cards. If your opponent have less than 6 cards draw 2 cards. If your opponent have 6 cards draw 6 cards
Dark Pact Don't let cubelock benefit from this card than entire archetype will slow down Destroy a friendly minion with a tribe, Restore 8 healt to your minion.
DoomguardBattlecry: Gain charge, discard 2 random cards
Call to Arms Costs 6 mana they cannot make it cost 5 mana or odd paladin will benefit from this too much
Divine Favor If your opponent have more than 6 cards draw 4 cards. If your opponent have less than 6 cards draw 2 cards. If your opponent have 6 cards draw 6 cards
So your idea is to nerf every strong deck. Do you really think it will balance the game?
I only agree with you that Call to Arms is sooo good right now but your idea is to change it to a useless card. I don't really know how to fix it but maybe with some condition on how minions do you control would be better.
Dark Pact Don't let cubelock benefit from this card than entire archetype will slow down Destroy a friendly minion with a tribe, Restore 8 healt to your minion.
DoomguardBattlecry: Gain charge, discard 2 random cards
Call to Arms Costs 6 mana they cannot make it cost 5 mana or odd paladin will benefit from this too much
Divine Favor If your opponent have more than 6 cards draw 4 cards. If your opponent have less than 6 cards draw 2 cards. If your opponent have 6 cards draw 6 cards
So your idea is to nerf every strong deck. Do you really think it will balance the game?
I only agree with you that Call to Arms is sooo good right now but your idea is to change it to a useless card. I don't really know how to fix it but maybe with some condition on how minions do you control would be better.
It is not nerfing strong decks it is nerfing power creeps that prevents people to create new successful decks.
I didn't touch odd paladin at all just limited the divine favor a little bit because it was highly unfair cards you spend your entire hand so fast but game punishes the opponent unfairly.
Also Call to Arms is not useless even at 6 mana because it doesn't only set 3 minion on board but also sinks your deck your chance to draw top decks increases significantly. you remember Mysterious Challenger right ?
Not for you but people takes nerfs so personal Right now I have cubelock, Odd paladin and Spitefull Druid decks yet I want nerfs
patches - put him in rogue class so not every deck is patches
You people realize the game maker intended Corridor Creeper to be a must-have, right? These people are CCG veterans, do you really think they didn't know exactly what they were doing? But whatever you want to tell yourself, an 'honest mistake', right?
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I really don't like cubelock, just because sometimes you feel powerless against the onslaught of Doomguards. The deck is cool, but it's sometimes too easy to get the Lackey combo. I think nerfing Dark Pact by increasing its mana cost would be a nice way of nerfing the deck, so that warlocks can't recruit a demon on their turn six. One less healing card in warlock won't really hurt their long game, as they already have so much heal and removal. If warlocks had to wait for a deathrattle to pop like every other class, I think the power level of the deck would decrease so that other classes have a shot at killing warlocks.
Honestly I never liked the "well the card will be rotating next expansion so who cares" line of thought. Unless you're committed to playing this game for a very long time (which to be fair, most of us on the forum probably are), saying Patches and Raza etc are going away in "just" a few months doesn't sound all that great. That is a lot of time.
Yeah it may be too late to do anything now, but my point is they should have done it sooner, but even back before K&C people were still saying "don't worry about those cards, they'll go away next year". It just feels lazy to me and is basically a big "we don't care about wild at all" gesture. To me it's an attitude like if you have a very noisy neighbor who annoys the hell out of you every day multiple times a day and you never do anything about it because "it's ok, they will move out in just a few months". Why not do something as soon as a problem is identified?
They have an opportunity to do that with Corridor Creeper - It is still pretty recent, and they have a chance to fix it (not sure what the best fix is, but several simple ones have been suggested) - why wait until the next release to do it? I know in the past they have said they don't like doing live tweaks like that, but I've never heard a compelling reason why the way they do it now is better.
Patches the Pirate gives too much tempo to the aggro decks it is not only free 1/1 with charge also it increases chance to draw topdeck by decreasing number of the cards to the 29 card.
what weed are you all smoking when you prattle on so much without mentioning Call to Arms?
not only is it broken NOW but it has big potential to be amazingly broken in the future while it is still in standard rotation
Nah only if Blizzard make Control warrior viable again, then aggro is not really a problem for the meta. Even with the pathetic state of Warrior right now I still kill of these aggro paladin with ease. Control Warrior will keep every aggro deck honest
Corridor Creeper ad Bonemare certanly needs nerf!
Scalebane is a good option to be nerfed too and some card to affect the annoying Raza combo priest... Talking about Raza, anyone knows when he will rotate out?
Raza is from 2016, so he'll rotate out with the first expansion of 2018 - I'm guessing March or April?
Jade druid still exists and I've always really disliked the way the works, so simple, too much unlimited power.
Pirate warrior has faded away but Patches (and his pirate package) is still in every single tempo, aggro and token deck. Dat deck/class diversity.
Corridor Creeper. In combo with Patches and....
Call To Arms - wow does this card feel unfair at times, why does juggler trigger off of it? Or ship's cannon? The deck thinning power is the worst side of it, making answering board clears far weaker than they should be - not only that but Creeper then further punishes the clear - Bad design. Reminds me somewhat of Mysterious Challenger with it's deck thinning.
Big Priest (and this is very much IMO, don't get offended) is possibly the worst designed deck of all time, just ahead of jade druid. High-rolling has always been a thing in hearthstone, but there has never been a deck so polarised - it's either super unfair or completely useless, no middle-ground, full auto-pilot deck, no fun for either player in either circumstance, just appalling. Blizzard hasn't just based nerfs in the past on raw power, but public perception of 'fun', this deck would be a primary candidate for that.
Raza Priest is oppressive, it just seems too versatile for a combo deck, though I can't deny it is fun to play.
Edit- This thread is older than my dog.
Raza - If your deck contains no duplicates, for the rest of the game, your current hero power costs 0.
Jade Idol - Choose 1 - summon a Jade Golem or Shuffle three copies of this card into your deck. They cost 1 more.
Spiteful Summoner - Battlecry: reveal a random spell from your deck. Summon a random minion that costs that much or less.
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Agreed, but mage NEEDS the life gain to survive as I can't tell you how many times I've been drilled down to near 0 before finally getting the DK out and being able to come back. Without the ability to come back, mage will struggle. I'm not claiming to be a superior player, so maybe you are right, but the life gain will be even more necessary if they HOF Ice Block.
BTW: Love the Demonic Tutor avatar. Haven't seen that card in a LONG time. 😉
This is my two cents on cube-lock but with no real solution ramblings..
I hope they don't target Dark Pact (by making it 2 mana as an example) otherwise we will find the same issue but with the use of Sacrificial Pactinstead, and this one won't be targeted by Skulking Geist. In my opinion the problem is not one specific card in this deck, and certainly nothing to do with void lord/doom-guard themselves. I think it's more with the recruitment mechanic within warlock (druid and warriors recruit mechanic takes much more "setting up.") I can't think of a solution to warlocks recruitment interactions, but I can only suggest that it was given too many tools to recruit a demon that cost the same mana. (Both the weapon and the minion are mid range.) Where as warrior's recruit feature, although it is not exclusive to one "type" of card like demon seem to work much better. )
I agree cube is a great card for other classes and when used it's not as over powered as it is with warlock. While I know cube lock can easily be countered, the simple fact is other decks have to go out their way to put these counters in place. (The amount of silence/geist has increased.)
Don't get me wrong I love having a slower paced meta, but for me there is no skill in waiting for one particular combination in your hand without having to struggle for survival. (Warlock has too many board clears and heals to struggle, same with priest - exodia mages I have a bit more respect for!)
I don't really have the solution for cubelock as such to me it is the only deck that really needs looked into as it won't loose any significant cards in the April rotation.
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Here's the cards that need a nerf:
1. Corridor creeper to 9 or 10 mana. The devs themselves are watching it.
2. Bonemare body becomes 4/4
3. Scalebane body becomes 4/4
4. The cube costs 6 mana
5. Acid ooze becomes 2/2
6. Priest DK loses the ability to refresh HP
7. Defile becomes 3 mana
8. Divine favor becomes 5 mana
9. Druid UI becomes 4/4/4/4
10. Rogue shadowstep gives 1 mana discount.
I was going to make a thread like this but will just necro since this is supposed to be an ongoing discussion about problematic cards. I think Cubelock/Control Warlock is an issue and we need to do something, but the issue lies in: With what card do we work on to make this deck a little less reliable? (Side note: Yes, I know Dude Paladin is an issue too, but I figured I'd start here)
1. Doomguard has a large drawback and if the other two cards that can pull this for free are neutralized, it becomes pretty crap to play this since it's not guaranteed you won't retain your Carnivorous Cube and Dark Pact post-discard.
2. Voidlord costs 9 and again, without the free-play, it's still a good 9 drop but not nearly as powerful when you burn your whole turn just dropping this.
3. Dark Pact is one major enabler of the combo but can only be changed in a couple of ways. One way is to reduce its healing capability, but really I feel the only way to hit them where it hurts is to add a discard drawback to the card. However, the best way I see helping the situation would be:
4. Possessed Lackey is the main enabler allowing for such devastating pulls. You can basically just throw 2 demons in your deck and get immense value with no drawback on very little mana and resources. It kind of reminds me of dropping Barnes on 4 with Priest and pulling your Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound. I think the best way to fix this card is to do this:
-It's better to have something you don't need, than to need something you don't have
Dark Pact Don't let cubelock benefit from this card than entire archetype will slow down Destroy a friendly minion with a tribe, Restore 8 healt to your minion.
Doomguard Battlecry: Gain charge, discard 2 random cards
Call to Arms Costs 6 mana they cannot make it cost 5 mana or odd paladin will benefit from this too much
Spiteful Summoner Cost 8 mana
Divine Favor If your opponent have more than 6 cards draw 4 cards. If your opponent have less than 6 cards draw 2 cards. If your opponent have 6 cards draw 6 cards