Priest machine gun is similar to Exodia Mage, which still exists, except that it does cost mana to play each card and you have finite cards.
Exodia Mage is an OTK and you can't really play around it you just have to hope you kill them before their Quest is finished.
You can play around and bait Priest tools pretty effectively and you could read their hand pretty easily because of its Highlander Nature.
Even if the Priest gets their combo on curve you are at an obvious disadvantage but you haven't lost the game either.
I don't know if Highlander Priest is oppressive but it's definitely more robust than Exodia Mage. If you tech 2x Dirty Rats against Exodia Mage in any deck, you can turn that matchup around. There's no such card against Priest (unless you snipe Raza but that's a lot harder to do and they can still win with Anduin). Priest also has better survival tools overall outside of Ice Block that again is weak to Eater of Secrets.
In Wild the deck is ridicules imo. Up to 4 full board clears (Dragonfire + Lightbomb + Shadow Visions + Kazakus), unlimited healing (Reno + Greater Healing Potion + Priest of the Feast ) and a pretty easy OTK setup without jumping through hoops (Spawn of the Shadows).
I might be biased because I like to play slow decks but in Wild the deck definitely seems a bit over powered to me (especially if you factor in how many Priests I run into on average).
VS has it at 52% on legend ranks and below 50 on high ranks. That's not oppressive. Tempo rogue is marginally better at legend ranks and much better on higher ranks.
It might have other issues in design, but that's a different discussion.
Here's my fix: Make it cost (1) more every time it's used in a turn. This doesn't kill Machine Gun Priest, just makes it slightly more expensive to barrage an opponent down.
So casting it 3 times in a turn would be: 0 -> 1 -> 2.
The flaw to your logic is you can say that every single class in HS is "unfun" to play against:
Rogue - oh yay I get to sit back and watch them draw card after card, playing combo after combo... 15 cards later they have a full hand, creatures on board, and effectively removed all my stuff. That's fun.
Mage - wow I get to watch them make infinite fireballs, and then eventually get around to hitting me in the face with them.
Warrior - whee I'm either dead by turn 5 due to pirates, get to watch them make a wall of taunt minons, or play endless copies of their hand over and over for 246 turns. FUN
Druid - Yay more Jades! Or maybe it's a bunch of 8/8s on turn 3. #winning
The POINT is, when you lose to a deck, especially if you lose badly, of course it's not fun. The lightbulb moment, though, is when you finally decide to stop blaming/hating on deck archetypes and realize that either:
a) your deck sucks, and you need to make it better;
The flaw to your logic is you can say that every single class in HS is "unfun" to play against:
Rogue - oh yay I get to sit back and watch them draw card after card, playing combo after combo... 15 cards later they have a full hand, creatures on board, and effectively removed all my stuff. That's fun.
Mage - wow I get to watch them make infinite fireballs, and then eventually get around to hitting me in the face with them.
Warrior - whee I'm either dead by turn 5 due to pirates, get to watch them make a wall of taunt minons, or play endless copies of their hand over and over for 246 turns. FUN
Druid - Yay more Jades! Or maybe it's a bunch of 8/8s on turn 3. #winning
The POINT is, when you lose to a deck, especially if you lose badly, of course it's not fun. The lightbulb moment, though, is when you finally decide to stop blaming/hating on deck archetypes and realize that either:
a) your deck sucks, and you need to make it better;
b) you make misplays, and need to play better; or
c) RNG wasn't in your favor, which happens.
d) your deck is fine but the matchup was unfavorable, and not every matchup can be favorable
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
I think it looks worse than it actually is, I think the problem is essentially the card draw that you're able to use in order to get your combo faster, I believe Kibler said there was way too much neutral card draw.
My solution to the problem would be to probably make it cost 9 mana? Although Raza Priest does have weaknesses unlike a lot of decks in the past at Tier S. That said, I don't think this deck is Tier S, it's just very high tier 1. I wouldn't touch the effect because it rotates out in 6 months but that said it would need touching up in wild. Maybe Raza needs changing a little, it could reduce the hero power to 1 mana?
I think it looks worse than it actually is, I think the problem is essentially the card draw that you're able to use in order to get your combo faster, I believe Kibler said there was way too much neutral card draw.
My solution to the problem would be to probably make it cost 9 mana? Although Raza Priest does have weaknesses unlike a lot of decks in the past at Tier S. That said, I don't think this deck is Tier S, it's just very high tier 1. I wouldn't touch the effect because it rotates out in 6 months but that said it would need touching up in wild. Maybe Raza needs changing a little, it could reduce the hero power to 1 mana?
If there was "way too much neutral card draw," then control paladin would still be around. Their late game can almost outvalue anything. But it doesn't. The reason Priest can play so much garbage card draw is because they have sooooo much removal to back it up. They can take the tempo loss.
Back to the thread - I believe that priest is strong but not OP. I have a solid highlander priest, got very good with it, but it's not even my favorite or strongest deck right now. It's like 3rd-4th place. Everyone will always have a deck they hate or will bitch about. I hate Exodia Mage because I like control decks and that's (mostly) what I play. But you don't see me starting a thread begging for a nerf. Because there's always gonna be strong decks, AND poor matchups. It's not op - find something else to complain about!
Yeah, I dunno if I can agree with a nerf to Raza. I'm an OTK combo man, and I haven't had more fun with a deck in Hearthstone than with Kripp's Chansey Priest. I still run that deck in Wild. I'd be all for a change to Voidform tho. The cost increase upon refreshing, as mentioned by Varron2, seems reasonable.
How about making it so that if the hero power is changed to a different one anytime after Raza is played that the HP mana cost will revert back to 2 mana.
This will make it so that the Priest DK will ALWAYS have to be played BEFORE Raza. The win condition is still there, but consistency will be hit a bit.
How about making it so that if the hero power is changed to a different one anytime after Raza is played that the HP mana cost will revert back to 2 mana.
This will make it so that the Priest DK will ALWAYS have to be played BEFORE Raza. The win condition is still there, but consistency will be hit a bit.
Thoughts?
Your proposal actually makes sense even from a logical point of view, and i am surprised it hasn't always been that way:
Your hero power for the rest of the game != any hero power you might receive during the game
BUT i'm not sure it'd hit consistency enough...
I think the abusable part is within DK, and it is the repeatability. Hit that (limited to either spells or minions) and Anduin will be much less oppressive, yet powerful.
There's nothing to "fix" here. The math doesn't support a nerf. Depending on whether you're first or second, you'll draw 13 or 14 cards by turn 10. If you're not doing a hard mulligan for your win condition (which you won't in many matches), that means you've got between 18% - 20% odds of drawing your win condition without any extra help. Now assume you get some extra draws (I'm assuming 4 - 6) from various understated minions like Novice Engineer and you'll improve your odds up to the 30% - 40% range. Those are pretty decent odds, but now you're playing weak minions like Novice Engineer and Gnomish Inventor, and midrange or tempo decks have a lot of opportunity to run you over by turn 10 (Tempo Mage in particular is great here). And lets not forget control killers like Jade Druid and Quest Mage, which also stand a pretty fair change - Jade because a highlander deck just doesn't have that many answers for big stuff, and Quest Mage because Ice Block goes a long way to preventing you from shotgunning them down.
Razakus Priest can be countered if that's what you're playing most on ladder, and it doesn't need nerfing. Nowadays, most of what I've seen on ladder is Keleseth Rogue (another deck that probably doesn't need a nerf, but is pretty damn annoying).
oh yeah, lets nerf hearthstone, u need to realized of u couldnt fight the meta and git gud u will get rekt
imagine we nerfed priest, he is so unplayable now, do u really think the meta will be balance ? before this meta it was much more cancerous with quest rogue and pirate warrior, even if we nerfed priest, another cancerous deck will rise and u will start crying all over again demanding a new nerf
In my heartstone history first time I am playing a cancer deck.
But it isn't oppressive?
VS has it at 52% on legend ranks and below 50 on high ranks. That's not oppressive. Tempo rogue is marginally better at legend ranks and much better on higher ranks.
It might have other issues in design, but that's a different discussion.
Here's my fix:
Make it cost (1) more every time it's used in a turn. This doesn't kill Machine Gun Priest, just makes it slightly more expensive to barrage an opponent down.
So casting it 3 times in a turn would be: 0 -> 1 -> 2.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
I think it looks worse than it actually is, I think the problem is essentially the card draw that you're able to use in order to get your combo faster, I believe Kibler said there was way too much neutral card draw.
My solution to the problem would be to probably make it cost 9 mana? Although Raza Priest does have weaknesses unlike a lot of decks in the past at Tier S. That said, I don't think this deck is Tier S, it's just very high tier 1. I wouldn't touch the effect because it rotates out in 6 months but that said it would need touching up in wild. Maybe Raza needs changing a little, it could reduce the hero power to 1 mana?
Maybe that just reduce the damages to 1 can be a solution
Yeah, I dunno if I can agree with a nerf to Raza. I'm an OTK combo man, and I haven't had more fun with a deck in Hearthstone than with Kripp's Chansey Priest. I still run that deck in Wild. I'd be all for a change to Voidform tho. The cost increase upon refreshing, as mentioned by Varron2, seems reasonable.
Dont you dare talk about nerfing my only golden deck 😡
How about making it so that if the hero power is changed to a different one anytime after Raza is played that the HP mana cost will revert back to 2 mana.
This will make it so that the Priest DK will ALWAYS have to be played BEFORE Raza. The win condition is still there, but consistency will be hit a bit.
Thoughts?
so many baby ragers in this game.... you like nerf everything.
There's nothing to "fix" here. The math doesn't support a nerf. Depending on whether you're first or second, you'll draw 13 or 14 cards by turn 10. If you're not doing a hard mulligan for your win condition (which you won't in many matches), that means you've got between 18% - 20% odds of drawing your win condition without any extra help. Now assume you get some extra draws (I'm assuming 4 - 6) from various understated minions like Novice Engineer and you'll improve your odds up to the 30% - 40% range. Those are pretty decent odds, but now you're playing weak minions like Novice Engineer and Gnomish Inventor, and midrange or tempo decks have a lot of opportunity to run you over by turn 10 (Tempo Mage in particular is great here). And lets not forget control killers like Jade Druid and Quest Mage, which also stand a pretty fair change - Jade because a highlander deck just doesn't have that many answers for big stuff, and Quest Mage because Ice Block goes a long way to preventing you from shotgunning them down.
Razakus Priest can be countered if that's what you're playing most on ladder, and it doesn't need nerfing. Nowadays, most of what I've seen on ladder is Keleseth Rogue (another deck that probably doesn't need a nerf, but is pretty damn annoying).
I think the best fix is the old hero power the developer have in mind:
2mana: resummon a random minion that died during the game (or something similar).
In this way raza is still strong and the dk priest become very less oppressive
What about stop crying about it?
The deck it's not opressive just because you don't like to lose to it.
Damn you people, always complaining about something that isn't remotely close to broken.
Where were all your whining when PW was the meta king since early MSoG?
oh yeah, lets nerf hearthstone, u need to realized of u couldnt fight the meta and git gud u will get rekt
imagine we nerfed priest, he is so unplayable now, do u really think the meta will be balance ? before this meta it was much more cancerous with quest rogue and pirate warrior, even if we nerfed priest, another cancerous deck will rise and u will start crying all over again demanding a new nerf