People saying you can "play around" ice block are in my opinion mistaken. Aside from Eater of secrets/Flare the options to play around it (as far as I can see) are as follows:
1) take them to 1 health and trigger it then try to kill them next turn. This fails if multiple ice blocks are available or if next turn you die. This isn't really "playing around it" imo.
2) Take them to 1 and do some fatigue shenanigans so they die without triggering ice block. Very situational.
3) Take them to 1 and do some Doomsayer + leper gnome (or equivalent) shenanigans so they die without triggering ice block. Very situational.
Personally I would leave the effect of ice block as it is, change the mana cost to say 4 or 5 and change the way secrets work in general. Rather than limit them to fixed mana costs per class I would hide the "remaining mana crystals" graphic from the opponent and then secrets could be costed appropriately without giving them away. This would have the added benefit of being able to print some decent paladin secrets!
Gadgetzan Auctioneer - 5 mana 4/4 "Whenever you cast a spell, draw two cards and discard one of them at random"
Preparation - 3 mana Rogue Spell: "Add two The Coins to your hand. You cannot play either The Coin this turn, and you can only play one The Coin each turn" - Preparation defeats the purpose of the Combo mechanic (be rewarded for playing multiple cards off curve instead of just mid-ranging it up) because it costs 0. 0 cost cards in general are just toxic but Preparation and Innervate are the worst offenders. This way, Preparation allows the rogue to invest mana on one turn and set up free Combo effects in future turns, but the card loses its synergy with Gadgetzan Auctioneer, Fan of Knives, The Caverns Below, Edwin Van Cleef and several others.
Ice Block - 3 mana Mage Spell - "Secret: If you would take lethal damage, prevent it. Immediately end the current turn and take an extra turn after it. At the end of that turn, you lose the game." So the core of Ice Block remains. It gives you an extra turn. One. Extra. Turn. And if you can't get lethal that turn, you die. It buys you time, and gives you mana, and that's fair. But you don't get to chain them infinitely and you don't get to stall for time with more freeze effects. If they pop your block, you get one more shot. Better use it well.
Innervate - 5 mana Druid Spell - "Reduce the cost of all minions in your hand by 2 (Minimum 1)." Innervate is mostly annoying because of its use as a spell synergy card when it's in a ramp class. The card should be used to help druid play big expensive minions, that's its primary goal. Side note - at 5 mana this card combines really well with Nourish on 10. Draw three expensive minions that you can't afford to play, and discount them all for next turn.
Alexstrasza - 9 mana Neutral Dragon - "Battlecry: Restore 5 health to your hero or deal 5 damage to your opponent" (Works like a Choose One effect). Alexstrasza is nice for its versatility but at the end of the day the card allows combo decks to ignore the board for too long. Combo decks can focus on drawing cards and killing everything without ever touching the opponent or playing any minions that need to strike face, then they just Alex and end. This way, Alexstrasza still has benefits without being a Battlecry: Deal 15 damage to the opponent card.
Lord Jaraxxus - 8 mana 0/15 Warlock Legendary Demon - "Battlecry: Destroy your hero and replace him with Lord Jaraxxus". - Card works exactly the same as before, but it costs 8 mana so you can always get in a free hero power (or play it on 8 for that emergency heal, aggro has gotten worse) and in exchange you do not get the weapon. Lord Jaraxxus has always been kind of polarized based on how much weapon destruction was in the meta. This way, the card acts as a heal and a way to get value out of your hero power in the late game when you don't want to be drawing cards. It doesn't also give you 0 mana Dark Bombs every turn. As a side note, weakening the 8 mana slot permanently with a 0/15 minion also helps keep cards like Forbidden Shaping, Free From Amber and Medivh the Guardian under control in the future.
Hex, Deadly Shot, Polymorph - Cards like these emphasize aggressive tempo-based decks because of their low mana cost. You can play Tunnel Trogg into Flametongue Totem and then when your opponent tries to contest the board with a 3 drop you can Hex it and keep pushing face damage because your opponent didn't have any cards to play on turn 1 or 2. Now, these cards should cost low mana so you can play them and do something else in the same turn in the late game, but they don't need to be so oppressive early game. So I propose increasing all of their costs by 3 each, and then having them refund 3 mana on cast. For example: Hex - 6 mana Shaman Spell - "Transform a minion into a 0/1 Frog with Taunt. Fill 3 of your empty mana crystals." See? As long as you cast it on turn 6 or later it has almost the exact same effect as before. The only difference is that you can't just swing the board super hard in the early to mid game when your opponent is trying to stabilize with a decent body compared to your small fast bodies.
It's a legitimate problem. Hopefully the Classic set just gets scrapped altogether so we can have more variety in decks in the future. The point of a rotating set is to keep things fresh after all.
I think different deck varieties are good but I don't think any card in the game should deal 15 for 9. Surely there are other ways to make burst decks work than a single card dealing 15 damage.
Yes but we could make new cards if Alexstrasza was rotated out. In Standard right now, you have Archmage Antonidas, Grommash Hellscream and Prophet Velen as potential burst combo cards. You don't need Alexstrasza to just deal 15 as one card. You can play MORE burn spells instead of relying on one card.
Most control decks do not run Alexstrasza. It's only decks like Freeze Mage that seek to genuinely just ignore the board entirely for 8-10 turns of the game while drawing their entire deck.
That's not "most" control decks. Mage is one class. We've had Control Priest who doesn't use it, Control Paladin doesn't use it. Control Warlock doesn't use it. Control Hunter with Yogg-Saron didn't use it. Control Druid (the one with Yogg-Saron) didn't use it. Control Mage uses it as a win condition but Medivh, the Guardian also works for that.
That's still not most control decks. Plenty of control decks get by fine without the card. Mage can use Archmage Antonidas to get the burst they need, and warrior can with with N'Zoth, the Corruptor, Elise the Trailblazer, or good old Coldlight OracleViolet Illusionist. Yogg N Load Hunter was certainly a deck that worked. The Heavy Ramp version of Druid was a Midrange Deck, not a Control deck. And I don't care about Combo decks, I haven't been making any arguments in defense of Combo decks working without Alexstrasza. Combo decks getting 15 free damage is the problem I have with the card.
I would buff Ancient of Lore to make him playable again, not sure how but there are many combinations I'd consider. -current version but reduce cost by 1 -upgrade heal to 8
Nerf Alexstrasza to make it 20 life, to make it more healing focused rather than aggressive.
Definitely buff a bunch of the quests that are unplayable.
And yeah, Ice Block needs to be addressed somehow in my opinion, it's an auto-include for mages but it's not worth teching against because I find Eater of Secrets such a wasted play in almost every other situation.
Primordial Glyph is just a boring card that also appears to be an auto-include.
Jade Idol would be nerfed but really I think the Gadgetzan Auctioneer is the bigger problem for this card, but the idol will rotate out eventually anyways soooo... meh, idk
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You have some good points, but you debase your argument with ad hominem attacks. A point is a point regardless of my ability to play freeze mage.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
People saying you can "play around" ice block are in my opinion mistaken. Aside from Eater of secrets/Flare the options to play around it (as far as I can see) are as follows:
1) take them to 1 health and trigger it then try to kill them next turn. This fails if multiple ice blocks are available or if next turn you die. This isn't really "playing around it" imo.
2) Take them to 1 and do some fatigue shenanigans so they die without triggering ice block. Very situational.
3) Take them to 1 and do some Doomsayer + leper gnome (or equivalent) shenanigans so they die without triggering ice block. Very situational.
Personally I would leave the effect of ice block as it is, change the mana cost to say 4 or 5 and change the way secrets work in general. Rather than limit them to fixed mana costs per class I would hide the "remaining mana crystals" graphic from the opponent and then secrets could be costed appropriately without giving them away. This would have the added benefit of being able to print some decent paladin secrets!
No love for Ice block lol
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I like it. Gives it a little more life to it.
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Gadgetzan Auctioneer - 5 mana 4/4 "Whenever you cast a spell, draw two cards and discard one of them at random"
Preparation - 3 mana Rogue Spell: "Add two The Coins to your hand. You cannot play either The Coin this turn, and you can only play one The Coin each turn" - Preparation defeats the purpose of the Combo mechanic (be rewarded for playing multiple cards off curve instead of just mid-ranging it up) because it costs 0. 0 cost cards in general are just toxic but Preparation and Innervate are the worst offenders. This way, Preparation allows the rogue to invest mana on one turn and set up free Combo effects in future turns, but the card loses its synergy with Gadgetzan Auctioneer, Fan of Knives, The Caverns Below, Edwin Van Cleef and several others.
Ice Block - 3 mana Mage Spell - "Secret: If you would take lethal damage, prevent it. Immediately end the current turn and take an extra turn after it. At the end of that turn, you lose the game." So the core of Ice Block remains. It gives you an extra turn. One. Extra. Turn. And if you can't get lethal that turn, you die. It buys you time, and gives you mana, and that's fair. But you don't get to chain them infinitely and you don't get to stall for time with more freeze effects. If they pop your block, you get one more shot. Better use it well.
Innervate - 5 mana Druid Spell - "Reduce the cost of all minions in your hand by 2 (Minimum 1)." Innervate is mostly annoying because of its use as a spell synergy card when it's in a ramp class. The card should be used to help druid play big expensive minions, that's its primary goal. Side note - at 5 mana this card combines really well with Nourish on 10. Draw three expensive minions that you can't afford to play, and discount them all for next turn.
Alexstrasza - 9 mana Neutral Dragon - "Battlecry: Restore 5 health to your hero or deal 5 damage to your opponent" (Works like a Choose One effect). Alexstrasza is nice for its versatility but at the end of the day the card allows combo decks to ignore the board for too long. Combo decks can focus on drawing cards and killing everything without ever touching the opponent or playing any minions that need to strike face, then they just Alex and end. This way, Alexstrasza still has benefits without being a Battlecry: Deal 15 damage to the opponent card.
Lord Jaraxxus - 8 mana 0/15 Warlock Legendary Demon - "Battlecry: Destroy your hero and replace him with Lord Jaraxxus". - Card works exactly the same as before, but it costs 8 mana so you can always get in a free hero power (or play it on 8 for that emergency heal, aggro has gotten worse) and in exchange you do not get the weapon. Lord Jaraxxus has always been kind of polarized based on how much weapon destruction was in the meta. This way, the card acts as a heal and a way to get value out of your hero power in the late game when you don't want to be drawing cards. It doesn't also give you 0 mana Dark Bombs every turn. As a side note, weakening the 8 mana slot permanently with a 0/15 minion also helps keep cards like Forbidden Shaping, Free From Amber and Medivh the Guardian under control in the future.
Hex, Deadly Shot, Polymorph - Cards like these emphasize aggressive tempo-based decks because of their low mana cost. You can play Tunnel Trogg into Flametongue Totem and then when your opponent tries to contest the board with a 3 drop you can Hex it and keep pushing face damage because your opponent didn't have any cards to play on turn 1 or 2. Now, these cards should cost low mana so you can play them and do something else in the same turn in the late game, but they don't need to be so oppressive early game. So I propose increasing all of their costs by 3 each, and then having them refund 3 mana on cast. For example: Hex - 6 mana Shaman Spell - "Transform a minion into a 0/1 Frog with Taunt. Fill 3 of your empty mana crystals." See? As long as you cast it on turn 6 or later it has almost the exact same effect as before. The only difference is that you can't just swing the board super hard in the early to mid game when your opponent is trying to stabilize with a decent body compared to your small fast bodies.
It's a legitimate problem. Hopefully the Classic set just gets scrapped altogether so we can have more variety in decks in the future. The point of a rotating set is to keep things fresh after all.
I think different deck varieties are good but I don't think any card in the game should deal 15 for 9. Surely there are other ways to make burst decks work than a single card dealing 15 damage.
Yes but we could make new cards if Alexstrasza was rotated out. In Standard right now, you have Archmage Antonidas, Grommash Hellscream and Prophet Velen as potential burst combo cards. You don't need Alexstrasza to just deal 15 as one card. You can play MORE burn spells instead of relying on one card.
Most control decks do not run Alexstrasza. It's only decks like Freeze Mage that seek to genuinely just ignore the board entirely for 8-10 turns of the game while drawing their entire deck.
1. I would make jade idol only summon a jade, no kther effect
2. I would make charge not be able to hit face on turn it is summoned
3. I would make weapons only allowed to go face when enemy board is empty
4. I would make small minions less powerful overall because the power of tempo in HS is completely ridiculous
5. I would increase the wild deck size to 40
That's not "most" control decks. Mage is one class. We've had Control Priest who doesn't use it, Control Paladin doesn't use it. Control Warlock doesn't use it. Control Hunter with Yogg-Saron didn't use it. Control Druid (the one with Yogg-Saron) didn't use it. Control Mage uses it as a win condition but Medivh, the Guardian also works for that.
That's still not most control decks. Plenty of control decks get by fine without the card. Mage can use Archmage Antonidas to get the burst they need, and warrior can with with N'Zoth, the Corruptor, Elise the Trailblazer, or good old Coldlight Oracle Violet Illusionist. Yogg N Load Hunter was certainly a deck that worked. The Heavy Ramp version of Druid was a Midrange Deck, not a Control deck. And I don't care about Combo decks, I haven't been making any arguments in defense of Combo decks working without Alexstrasza. Combo decks getting 15 free damage is the problem I have with the card.
I would buff Ancient of Lore to make him playable again, not sure how but there are many combinations I'd consider.
-current version but reduce cost by 1
-upgrade heal to 8
Nerf Alexstrasza to make it 20 life, to make it more healing focused rather than aggressive.
Definitely buff a bunch of the quests that are unplayable.
And yeah, Ice Block needs to be addressed somehow in my opinion, it's an auto-include for mages but it's not worth teching against because I find Eater of Secrets such a wasted play in almost every other situation.
Primordial Glyph is just a boring card that also appears to be an auto-include.
Jade Idol would be nerfed but really I think the Gadgetzan Auctioneer is the bigger problem for this card, but the idol will rotate out eventually anyways soooo... meh, idk