Hearthpwn

Quote from arsartis >>

Interesting. It would nullify permanent characteristic boosts but at the same time it also removes negative characteristics effects. And with this wording it would heal them too.

It would work in a completely different way, giving heals but ruining its synergy with charge, which is not a bad thing as it would force interaction.

Quote from MmeMemeStone >>

Quote from arsartis >>

Interesting. It would nullify permanent characteristic boosts but at the same time it also removes negative characteristics effects. And with this wording it would heal them too.

It would work in a completely different way, giving heals but ruining its synergy with charge, which is not a bad thing as it would force interaction.

 Exactly. My biggest concern with this card is its lack of interaction and thus lack of an actual counter (non-aggro plays I mean).

This change would give control decks a chance against it.

EDIT: and the flavour of the effect is far better. It would explain why transform effects and silence end up not working, while being useful to buy one turn at least.

Its on tempostrom as bottom of tier 1 not sure where this "its tier 3" comes from perhaps citing a source may help ?

Quote from Mandelised >>

Its on tempostrom as bottom of tier 1 not sure where this "its tier 3" comes from perhaps citing a source may help ?

• http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-48/
• http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-47/
• http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-46/
• http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-45/

Vicious Syndicate's tier system is defined as follows:

• Tier 1: Win rate 54-58%
• Tier 2: Win rate 50-53.9% - (In report 45 and 46, Crystal Rogue was in Tier 2 only in legend with a win rate just above 50%)
• Tier 3: Win rate 45-49.9% - (In reports 45 through 48, Crystal Rogue is in Tier 3 at all ranks with a win rate around 48-49%)
• Tier 4: Win rate below 45%

Quote from definitelynotsalty >>

Quote from MmeMemeStone >>

Quote from arsartis >>

Interesting. It would nullify permanent characteristic boosts but at the same time it also removes negative characteristics effects. And with this wording it would heal them too.

It would work in a completely different way, giving heals but ruining its synergy with charge, which is not a bad thing as it would force interaction.

 Exactly. My biggest concern with this card is its lack of interaction and thus lack of an actual counter (non-aggro plays I mean).

This change would give control decks a chance against it.

EDIT: and the flavour of the effect is far better. It would explain why transform effects and silence end up not working, while being useful to buy one turn at least.

 An army of 1 mana 5/5s that are immune to enemies with 4 or less attack.  Great idea.

What you really meant is "At the end of your turn, set all your minions that were summoned this turn to 5/5".

Your version also erases stat related battlecry and combo effects and this destroys a lot of unexplored creative space I see around the Crystal Core as any minion with those effects is useless. Not worth it in my opinion.

Quote from definitelynotsalty >>

Quote from MmeMemeStone >>

Quote from arsartis >>

Interesting. It would nullify permanent characteristic boosts but at the same time it also removes negative characteristics effects. And with this wording it would heal them too.

It would work in a completely different way, giving heals but ruining its synergy with charge, which is not a bad thing as it would force interaction.

 Exactly. My biggest concern with this card is its lack of interaction and thus lack of an actual counter (non-aggro plays I mean).

This change would give control decks a chance against it.

EDIT: and the flavour of the effect is far better. It would explain why transform effects and silence end up not working, while being useful to buy one turn at least.

 An army of 1 mana 5/5s that are immune to enemies with 4 or less attack.  Great idea.

What you really meant is "At the end of your turn, set all your minions that were summoned this turn to 5/5".

I'm a fairly new player(played for a couple weeks last year, been playing since early May this year) and I have to say...Quest rogue is extremely toxic. It's the only deck I've faced that makes me feel like I "have" to switch decks if I see a couple during any given play session. No other deck I've faced makes me feel like that. It's an extremely anti-fun deck. The deck literally plays by itself for the first 4 turns before even caring about the other player. I understand that it's considered "T2-3" but that doesn't change the nature of the deck and that it HARD counters some decks without any chance for counter-play.

As I said, I'm fairly new so maybe I'm misunderstanding these match-ups. Let's say I'm playing as a dragon priest(my favorite deck right now). I face a mage and it's a 50/50 MU. I face an aggro deck such as pirate warr, token druid, murlocadin and I'm probably going to lose, BUT I can win if I draw/play very well. I face a midrange deck and I'll usually win. But then I face that quest rogue and lose 100% except for if he draws terribly and can't complete his quest until turn 6 when I have dragonfire potion ready. Let's just be honest though, what rogue doesn't have 4-5 5/5 charge minions on the board by turn 5? I've played a couple games with absolute perfection vs quest rogues and still lost.

Due to the "quest rogue" existing, I've preferred climbing with my face hunter deck because at least I feel like I have a chance vs any deck. Are priests/mages difficult while I'm playing face hunter? Yes, they're difficult to face but I can still beat them given good card draw. 

Anyways, I go back to one of my first points. My biggest issue with quest rogue is that it doesn't even interact with the opposition until it completes the quest. Extremely anti-fun IMO, regardless of the deck's winrate. It's a flawed design that I don't think was intended when blizzard developed the card. Just my 2 cents ^_^

Quote from MmeMemeStone >>

Quote from arsartis >>

Interesting. It would nullify permanent characteristic boosts but at the same time it also removes negative characteristics effects. And with this wording it would heal them too.

It would work in a completely different way, giving heals but ruining its synergy with charge, which is not a bad thing as it would force interaction.

 Exactly. My biggest concern with this card is its lack of interaction and thus lack of an actual counter (non-aggro plays I mean).

This change would give control decks a chance against it.

EDIT: and the flavour of the effect is far better. It would explain why transform effects and silence end up not working, while being useful to buy one turn at least.

Quote from AMJii >>

Quote from richard1234567891011 >>

if quest rogue will be nerfed will fall in tier 9 (actually is tier 3) and nobody will play it.

In other words "If quest rogue were to be nerfed, HS would be more fun to play".

Quote from MmeMemeStone >>

Quote from arsartis >>

Interesting. It would nullify permanent characteristic boosts but at the same time it also removes negative characteristics effects. And with this wording it would heal them too.

It would work in a completely different way, giving heals but ruining its synergy with charge, which is not a bad thing as it would force interaction.

 Exactly. My biggest concern with this card is its lack of interaction and thus lack of an actual counter (non-aggro plays I mean).

This change would give control decks a chance against it.

EDIT: and the flavour of the effect is far better. It would explain why transform effects and silence end up not working, while being useful to buy one turn at least.

Quote from MmeMemeStone >>

Quote from arsartis >>

It would work in a completely different way, giving heals but ruining its synergy with charge, which is not a bad thing as it would force interaction.

 Exactly. My biggest concern with this card is its lack of interaction

Quote from WraithM >>

Interactive cards are fair cards, and we all prefer that our opponents play with those, but when it comes to our own decks, we will often pass over such cards unless we have a means to 'correct' the cards weaknesses.

I was making a generalization and could have worded that better, especially when that statement doesn't always apply to what I'm playing with either. There are certainly more than one way to approach deck building, but when I look at the popular decks and what net deckers are doing, I get the impression that this is how most people think when they evaluate what cards they are going to run.

Out of curiosity though, when you say that my statement doesn't apply to you and how you build decks, what do you mean? What kind of cards do you pick and play with that don't fit in with what I said? For example for myself, when I play Quest Rogue I do it without charge minions. Charge minions are faster and less risky, making them an 'obviously better' choice for minions, but I choose not to use them in order to run other cards less often seen.

By the way you play Quest Rogue then it seems you also shouldn't be included in your own "we".

About my choice of decks: for example I started to play Miracle Rogue only now. Leroy nerf long time ago and conceal going to standard have taken away the consistently not-interactive ways to win of the deck.

Quote from WraithM >>

I was making a generalization and could have worded that better, especially when that statement doesn't always apply to what I'm playing with either. There are certainly more than one way to approach deck building, but when I look at the popular decks and what net deckers are doing, I get the impression that this is how most people think when they evaluate what cards they are going to run.

Out of curiosity though, when you say that my statement doesn't apply to you and how you build decks, what do you mean? What kind of cards do you pick and play with that don't fit in with what I said? For example for myself, when I play Quest Rogue I do it without charge minions. Charge minions are faster and less risky, making them an 'obviously better' choice for minions, but I choose not to use them in order to run other cards less often seen.

I know most people stick with charge. Rogue as a class has no board clears and Crystal Rogue can expect to not have control of the board because of all the tempo they lose completing the quest. The power spike from the Crystal Core is huge, but the longer the game goes the lower the win rate is, as you can see in one of the charts in the link below that was shared in the other thread:

https://hsreplay.net/cards/41222/the-caverns-below/#tab=quest-completion

Relying on taunts and trading is an alternative to charge, but any class with some removal can get past those taunts to let their board keep piling up the damage. My chargeless version does use taunts, but it is centered around Bilefin Tidehunter and Brann Bronzebeard, a card that rotated to Wild. While I am currently 17-10 with it and climbed to rank 15 with it, there are some games where I couldn't deal with their board where I might have had a chance at winning if I had been running charge.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/835627-rogue-zero-wild-quest-rogue

While it may feel gimmicky and cheesy to lose to charge, it is the only win condition besides just having a larger board that Crystal Rogue has access to. Even when I'm not using charge, if I don't have taunt, no one interacts with my board. One, because they don't know that I'm not using charge, and two, because the value from the Crystal Core represents a multi-turn kill timer. Whether I have a board or not, the threat of cheap minions flooding the board means it is a face race either way. Filling your deck with taunts to avoid playing with charge isn't worth it in standard. If there are design flaws to this quest, this is certainly one of them.

TLDR: Crystal Rogue is likely forced to use cheap charge minions because the tempo lost completing the quest means they lack board control and Rogue as a class doesn't have board clears outside of Vanish which only has synergy with cheap charge minions.

Quote from richard1234567891011 >>

If quest rogue will be nerfed will fall in tier 9 (actually is tier 3) and nobody will play it.

Rogue hasn't had a playable archetype outside of Miracle in a long time, so I think it is perfectly reasonable that Rogue players would want to see it stick around because it is cheaper to build than most popular Miracle lists that run multiple legendary cards. Not saying it isn't without its issues, but deck diversity is still at an all time high in this meta despite the presence of this deck.