I know he is not used in every deck but it is quite unfair card especially in rogue. I think he was bigger problem than conceal because conceal is actually useless without Auctioneer.
In all honesty, I'm really surprised he didn't get slapped into wild. Tempo mage is currently playing him, jade is playing him, miracle plays him. He's becoming viable to some extent. However he's not over played. so maybe he's played in 15% of all decks unlike azure who is roughly 40%
anything that has draw has skill, gadget its something that has so many ways to get value out of. Knowing what turn to play it on and how much value you need this turn or in the future is skill and what little blizzard accepts is definitely going to be something I support. Because otk and combo decks have been nerfed we need all we can get to have interesting cards in the game.
Conceal is arguably the single most unfair card in the entire game. The fact that you can create a 20/20 Edwin VanCleef, stealth it, hit face with it next turn, then stealth it again for a two-turn-kill that is virtually impossible to prevent has been a great source of frustration for me and, I imagine, many others. Gadgetzan Auctioneer is a brilliantly designed card that you can build a deck around, so it's actually great for the game. Conceal, however, is not.
Valeera is an assassin who moves under cover in the shadows to strike an opponent without warning. Why would you nerf a card that is an important part of the character and archtype?
I'm on the team of "send him to Wild!" because it means a much harder time for the team to create things like Spare Parts in the future.
There is a TON of idea space for cards that create little cantrip spells with small effects for 1 or 0 mana, but as long as auctioneer is around, those ideas are much harder to implement.
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I'm not a huge fan of auctioneer myself, but I do get that it is a card that favors more skilled players. It's kinds of a love-hate relationship. I'd hate to see him go but I'd love to watch him leave.
The reason Conceal was moved rather than Gadgetzan Auctioneer is because Conceal is a lot easier to abuse. Yes, Auctioneer makes card draw easy, allowing big Edwin VanCleefs and Questing Adventurers, but the only way to counter Conceal is to have AoE that will flat out prevent the big minions from attacking which are as follows:Blizzard, Frost Nova, Wild Pyromancer + Equality, Vanish, Devolve, Brawl, Mass Dispel, Twisting Nether, DOOM!, and Deathwing. If you look back at a lot of dev comments, they want to encourage counterplay and interactivity. If Conceal continued to be a thing, they would have to make more AoE of this sort, rather than strong neutral minions that everyone could use, which I think would be more oppressive to all the classes, not just rogue. Besides, you still can stealth your big card with Fadeleaf Toxin and Master of Disguise, but that will just stealth that one card and you will have to budget your mana more wisely.
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Wants to play Captain Cookie Druid because why not?
Combined with Jade Idol, the worst fucking card in the history of this game, Team 5's failure to rotate Auctioneer is maybe the biggest indictment yet of their ability to balance the game.
Classes like Rogue and Druid that have, as part of their class identities, the ability to accelerate mana within a turn or within the game overall, should be balanced by making draw more costly and by the risk of fatigue. Auctioneer completely obviates any challenge either class faces in card draw, as been seen by anyone who has ever played a game against Miracle Rogue or Jade Druid. Add to that Jade Idol, and Druid has nearly unlimited card draw with no risk of fatigue.
If we are going to have 0-cost spells that also accelerate / buff other plays and classes that literally cannot fatigue, this card has no place in the game. People who bitch about aggro for the next 15 months have Jade Idol and Gadgetzan Auctioneer to blame almost exclusively.
Combined with Jade Idol, the worst fucking card in the history of this game, Team 5's failure to rotate Auctioneer is maybe the biggest indictment yet of their ability to balance the game.
Classes like Rogue and Druid that have, as part of their class identities, the ability to accelerate mana within a turn or within the game overall, should be balanced by making draw more costly and by the risk of fatigue. Auctioneer completely obviates any challenge either class faces in card draw, as been seen by anyone who has ever played a game against Miracle Rogue or Jade Druid. Add to that Jade Idol, and Druid has nearly unlimited card draw with no risk of fatigue.
If we are going to have 0-cost spells that also accelerate / buff other plays and classes that literally cannot fatigue, this card has no place in the game. People who bitch about aggro for the next 15 months have Jade Idol and Gadgetzan Auctioneer to blame almost exclusively.
Having gone through Spare Parts existing in standard, I can assure you that Archmage Antonidas is a much stronger barrier for cheap spells coming from neutral minions than Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
Having gone through Spare Parts existing in standard, I can assure you that Archmage Antonidas is a much stronger barrier for cheap spells coming from neutral minions than Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
I disagree. Antonidas is a legendary which means that he is much more difficult to draw. Having 2x Auctioneer greatly increases the probability of being able to abuse the card in any game. Additionally, Antonidas is Class specific meaning that only 1 class can try to abuse him whereas Auctioneer is a Neutral that can be used by any class and limits potential card design for all 9 classes. Antonidas also costs more meaning it is slower to hit the field.
Auctioneer limits design space probably more than any current card in the game. Heck it is so strong and op that an entire class basically entirely revolves around this 1 neutral minion (rogue).
Because Auctioneer without conceal is never going to be problematic on it own, it's just a strong draw engine for some specific decks. Maybe this kills Miracle rogue but it's fine. People are happy that freeze mage is gone because it's been around for 3 years, well Miracle rogue too.
If they removed Auctioneer but kept Conceal, this kills miracle rogue too, but conceal is still problematic on its own, you just killed a deck but didn't solve anything.
freeze isnt gone. maybe once emperor rotates it will be severely weakened, but right now its still pretty strong. The only deck too fast for it most of the time is pirate warrior. since it can OTK renolock/priest. As long as mage doesn't have ice block up its dead too. Druid should be fodder for it most of the time as well. Maybe midrange jade shaman can beat it because of hex on doomsayer, but thats more draw dependent than anything for the shaman.
As for conceal, aggro rogue would still be strong with conceal, especially with the finja package without auctioneer. Miracle rogue is already going to be fucked losing its 4 and 5 drops (1 that develops a coin for auctioneer) and conceal which hurts miracle turns and removes the huge edwin/questing conceal turns
lets put it like this. the cards were not rotated out based on power level to be honest, even if it looks that way. they were rotated out to open up design space. with each new expansion they have to come up with new, interesting, powerful cards that arent too broken or too garbage, atleast not every slot.
and to achieve that how will they make a better 6 drop than sylvanus? thaurassian? mysterious challenger? the card makes their job very hard to do and its too versatile.
and for rag, imagine making a better 8 drop than ragnaros. there really isnt too many options that arent completely busted. also its existence prevents a control styled mage from really shining, sure renomage has been good but when a rag is dropped late game they just lose to it half the time.
conceal, with this card it limits the power level of any card they give rogue because they can just hide it, essentially giving it charge, or your whole board charge since there are very little ways to interact with a stealthed board for many classes.
power overwhelming 1 mana deal 4 damage. this basically prevents them from making any charge or windfury card with decent stats for warlock or even neutral because they can exploit it with power overwhelming OTK combos.
and although gadgetzan is very powerful in rogue and sometimes druid it doesn't really limit design space. you could argue that it prevents rogue from receiving good spells. but even after cards like shadow strike and counterfeit coin were introduced rogue never reached a feeling of "oh wow this is broken and not fun"
also if you were to rotate out gadgetzan at the same time as conceal, and tomb pillager is also going... what is rogue? like really what does rogue even do. a burgle deck? thats a meme at best
I really agree with you, as a miracle player I feel like conceal is just ridiculous since it allows you to stealth key win conditions for just one mana. Whenever I get a gadgetzan auctioneer and questing concealed it is almost GG. I feel like conceal is the real problem since it really takes no skill to use, all you need to do is build a big minion (which is not very hard to do as rogue can questing and Edwin) and you are almost all the time guaranteed an attack, a lot of the time threatening lethal. The only drawback is that it could be a dead draw quite a bit if you don't get auctioneer, but that is the case for almost every cheep spell.
I know he is not used in every deck but it is quite unfair card especially in rogue. I think he was bigger problem than conceal because conceal is actually useless without Auctioneer.
then read it again.
In all honesty, I'm really surprised he didn't get slapped into wild. Tempo mage is currently playing him, jade is playing him, miracle plays him. He's becoming viable to some extent. However he's not over played. so maybe he's played in 15% of all decks unlike azure who is roughly 40%
anything that has draw has skill, gadget its something that has so many ways to get value out of. Knowing what turn to play it on and how much value you need this turn or in the future is skill and what little blizzard accepts is definitely going to be something I support. Because otk and combo decks have been nerfed we need all we can get to have interesting cards in the game.
Conceal is arguably the single most unfair card in the entire game. The fact that you can create a 20/20 Edwin VanCleef, stealth it, hit face with it next turn, then stealth it again for a two-turn-kill that is virtually impossible to prevent has been a great source of frustration for me and, I imagine, many others. Gadgetzan Auctioneer is a brilliantly designed card that you can build a deck around, so it's actually great for the game. Conceal, however, is not.
My personal suspicion is that they like what Auctioneer does for Jade Druid and don't want to risk weakening that deck.
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Conceal works because it fits the Rogue archtype.
Valeera is an assassin who moves under cover in the shadows to strike an opponent without warning. Why would you nerf a card that is an important part of the character and archtype?
They said that it is on their watchlist.
The key argument was that it is a high skill card and they left it in for that reason.
I'm on the team of "send him to Wild!" because it means a much harder time for the team to create things like Spare Parts in the future.
There is a TON of idea space for cards that create little cantrip spells with small effects for 1 or 0 mana, but as long as auctioneer is around, those ideas are much harder to implement.
Building Quirky Decks Every Week, Loving Life at Rank 15!
I'm not a huge fan of auctioneer myself, but I do get that it is a card that favors more skilled players. It's kinds of a love-hate relationship. I'd hate to see him go but I'd love to watch him leave.
The reason Conceal was moved rather than Gadgetzan Auctioneer is because Conceal is a lot easier to abuse. Yes, Auctioneer makes card draw easy, allowing big Edwin VanCleefs and Questing Adventurers, but the only way to counter Conceal is to have AoE that will flat out prevent the big minions from attacking which are as follows:Blizzard, Frost Nova, Wild Pyromancer + Equality, Vanish, Devolve, Brawl, Mass Dispel, Twisting Nether, DOOM!, and Deathwing. If you look back at a lot of dev comments, they want to encourage counterplay and interactivity. If Conceal continued to be a thing, they would have to make more AoE of this sort, rather than strong neutral minions that everyone could use, which I think would be more oppressive to all the classes, not just rogue. Besides, you still can stealth your big card with Fadeleaf Toxin and Master of Disguise, but that will just stealth that one card and you will have to budget your mana more wisely.
Wants to play Captain Cookie Druid because why not?
Combined with Jade Idol, the worst fucking card in the history of this game, Team 5's failure to rotate Auctioneer is maybe the biggest indictment yet of their ability to balance the game.
Classes like Rogue and Druid that have, as part of their class identities, the ability to accelerate mana within a turn or within the game overall, should be balanced by making draw more costly and by the risk of fatigue. Auctioneer completely obviates any challenge either class faces in card draw, as been seen by anyone who has ever played a game against Miracle Rogue or Jade Druid. Add to that Jade Idol, and Druid has nearly unlimited card draw with no risk of fatigue.
If we are going to have 0-cost spells that also accelerate / buff other plays and classes that literally cannot fatigue, this card has no place in the game. People who bitch about aggro for the next 15 months have Jade Idol and Gadgetzan Auctioneer to blame almost exclusively.
Having gone through Spare Parts existing in standard, I can assure you that Archmage Antonidas is a much stronger barrier for cheap spells coming from neutral minions than Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
lets put it like this. the cards were not rotated out based on power level to be honest, even if it looks that way. they were rotated out to open up design space. with each new expansion they have to come up with new, interesting, powerful cards that arent too broken or too garbage, atleast not every slot.
and to achieve that how will they make a better 6 drop than sylvanus? thaurassian? mysterious challenger? the card makes their job very hard to do and its too versatile.
and for rag, imagine making a better 8 drop than ragnaros. there really isnt too many options that arent completely busted. also its existence prevents a control styled mage from really shining, sure renomage has been good but when a rag is dropped late game they just lose to it half the time.
conceal, with this card it limits the power level of any card they give rogue because they can just hide it, essentially giving it charge, or your whole board charge since there are very little ways to interact with a stealthed board for many classes.
power overwhelming 1 mana deal 4 damage. this basically prevents them from making any charge or windfury card with decent stats for warlock or even neutral because they can exploit it with power overwhelming OTK combos.
and although gadgetzan is very powerful in rogue and sometimes druid it doesn't really limit design space. you could argue that it prevents rogue from receiving good spells. but even after cards like shadow strike and counterfeit coin were introduced rogue never reached a feeling of "oh wow this is broken and not fun"
also if you were to rotate out gadgetzan at the same time as conceal, and tomb pillager is also going... what is rogue? like really what does rogue even do. a burgle deck? thats a meme at best
I really agree with you, as a miracle player I feel like conceal is just ridiculous since it allows you to stealth key win conditions for just one mana. Whenever I get a gadgetzan auctioneer and questing concealed it is almost GG. I feel like conceal is the real problem since it really takes no skill to use, all you need to do is build a big minion (which is not very hard to do as rogue can questing and Edwin) and you are almost all the time guaranteed an attack, a lot of the time threatening lethal. The only drawback is that it could be a dead draw quite a bit if you don't get auctioneer, but that is the case for almost every cheep spell.
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