Hi everybody,this is the list of suggested Standard changes I posted before Blizzard came out with 2017's nerfs and rotations. Now, I want to hear your feedback. Are any of my changes better than the official ones ? Is there any change on my list that should be done and isn't on the Blizzard's list ? Which changes from my list are just terrible and why ? Let me now in the comments below !
Small-Time Buccaneer: is now a 1mana 1/1 Has +2/1 while you have a weapon equipped.
This aggresive card known as a part of the Pirate Package ( which was included in many different meta dominating decks) is in the most of cases just a straight up upgraded Flame Imp. This nerf should hurt his abilitty to survive on the board while you don't have a weapon. This nerf should also improve the efficiency of anti-pirate tech cards like [card]Acidic Swamp Ooze [/card
Blizzard's and my comparison:
Blizzard decided to nerf this card harder than I suggested. I can't judge if that's good for the game or not ,but on the parer the Blizzard's Small-Time is just a 0 drop (Murloc Tinifin) in the worst case scenario and a normal 1 drop ( restated Enchanted Raven) in the best case scenario. So it's pretty underpowered. However, that's just "on the parer" and even the most underpowered cards can be wildly played If they fit the right purpose in the right deck. They just went for the safest way how to significaly turn down the power level of Small-Time and I kinda get it. To compare my and Blizzard's nerf : the main goal of Blizzard nerf was to make this card significally less strong (even if it would mean that we will end up with unplayble trash) while the main goal of my nerf was to make card less broken and still playable. You can decide what's better.
Molten Giant: changed mana cost to 22 mana + moved to wild
The nerf of a Molten Giant was indeed in a mistake. The original Molten Giant was indeed a little bit overpowered, but the only reason why they nerfed this card as hard as they did was to that hey wanted to "force the change of meta". So, now they should finally admit they that made a mistake, and they should rebalance this card and move it to the wild. I think that 22 mana cost is an accurate change for this case.
Blizzard's and comparison:
I don't know why, but changes to the Molten Giant were postponed to 2018. That's just weird, because it seems like a pretty clear step, which most of the players would be thankful about.
Secretkeeper: now reads "Whenever you play a friendly secret gain +1/+1"
While the Secrekeeper might not seem as huge meta destroyer it's indeed the strogest classic 1 drop and it's very simillar to the pre-nerf Undertaker. Firstly I wanted to hit it hard just, because of this fact and how "Secret design space" limiting this is, but then I realised that this small nerf might be enough for now.
This is the change I am really sad about, because I like both of these cards, but they are way to much "single archeotype pushing" to stay with us in the Standard environment.
Classes - Druid:
Innervate: now reads "The next minion you play cost 2 less"
While I do think that Blizzard will nerf much more of Druid Basic or Classic Classic cards, INHO this is the only one, which really deserves it. It's really powerfull 0 mana card (which general means a lot of problems), which pushes druid in to the one stereotypical Archeotype (Ramp).
(Force of Nature: now reads summon two 3/2s with charge with die at the on of your turn + moved to Wild)
This one is really questionable and would need a serious in game testing. I know that there is a lot of people, who would like to play a balanced version of old combo druid in Wild, but the question is "Is there a Balanced combo druid or the whole point Archetype was broken and there's nothing to do with that ? If there is a balanced Force Nature than this one might be it. It summons just two 3/2s so it deals two less damage together with Savage Roar and it's also much worse if you want to use it for trading.
Ancient of Loreis now a 7 mana 5/7 + moved to Wild or 7 mana 5/6 and stay in Standard
I am sure that Ancient of Lore nerf needs to be reconsidered. However I am not sure which way it should be done. I am sure that 5/7 would be fine in Wild, but way too auto-include card in Standard (especially with Fandaral in the rotation) . So what would you do ? Hurt Wild and make it 5/6 or hurt Standard and make it 5/7 Wild only. I mean we shouldn't move to many cards to the Wild, because we would end up with low number of cards in a rotation or and that's even worse we would end up with "Trash and the Rest" Set in the rotation, but it's still a hard choice.
This card is just way too broken even for a Wild environment. In wild you rather play a secret paladin or you need play a package of anti-secret techs and that's not funny any more. Just hit it Blizzard, hit it hard !
This and Mana Wyrm are auto-includes in every aggressive mage decks. This card's abilitty is way to strong and creates some isane situations with Mana Wyrm on the board and yet this card has no stat paytment for such a abilitty. Well, this should be changed.
Ice Block: now reads " When your hero takes a fatal damage, gain 18 armor this turn only" or moved to wild without changes
We now learned that Freeze mage is just staying with us forever without any bigger changes to it's concept until something really happens (to the Ice Block). This change would make Ice Block usable only if your opponent's board isn't out of your control and filled with tons of high attack minions or key combo pieces. Than there's always a second option - move Ice Block ( and whole freeze mage) to wild and keep it without nerfs.
Classes Rogue:
Preparation: now reads "The next spell you play cost 2 less"
Another strong zero mana card which pushes a class in to one archeotype (Miracle one), which deserves a nerf.
Blade Flurry:now cost 3 mana or cost 4 mana deals damage face+ moved to wild
The Blade Flurry nerf was a really huge overnerf. While I do think that the original card was way to cheap and that the fact that it could good face was just ridiculus I think that making cost two mana more instead of just one was an overkill, which was done to " force a change of Standard". So, there are two ways how to fix this card rather making it a cheap both modes AOE for rogue or kinda expensive Wild-only combo peace for Oil Combo Archeotype. I think that the first one seems really reasonable.
This card is just so weak that I fell bad, when I want to nerf card in the class with this trash in ever-green set. This change should make a playable, but still not something like auto-include card.
Classes-Shaman:
General note: I know that will be hited hard by the rotation, but following cards are just so broken itself that they can't remain unerfed.
Spirit Claws: Is now a 1/2 weapon with the same effect
This one mana weapon was used in almost every aggresive or mid-range shaman deck since it's release. One mana weapon that can be a 3/3 weapon if the not quite that hard condition is met is just way to broken for game like Hearthstone. This nerf should make it still good and in line with a (also) nerfed Fiery War Axe.
4 mana 7/7 was a step in to the wrong direction. This card is just soo good if you haven't got some advance or you if don't top deck a hard removal your opponent just won. This change should make your trades into it much easier and make it dying to spells like Fireball.
This card is way too good, because summoning of totems is something that you want to the in Shaman anyway and this card benefits you for doing just way too much. This nerf should make this card balanced ,but not broken.
Classes- Warrior:
Fiery War Axe: is now 1/2 weapon which reads "deals 2 more damage to minions"
The 2 mana 3/2 weapon is just way too universal. It's really strong as a control tool, but it's strong like agro tool as well and that's really really wrong. In the ever-green set, there just shouldn't someting which is auto-included and almost broken in every SINGLE warrior's deck no matter what archetype it is. So, that's way I decided to change this weapon, so it's usable only as a preety strong control tool.
This card is a 3 mana 2/4 , which can easily decide games and deal up to 24 damage if it goes out of your opponent's control. It was proved that this type of card isn't welcome in any kind of the meta. This card was broken in a Patron deck, this card was broken in Combo decks and now it is broken in agro Pirate warrior. So, it's time to nerf it. This change would make it much less dangerous while keeping it playable. The nerfed version would be pretty simillar to a Darkshire Councilman.
Charge: Now "gives +2 health" to the targeted minion.
Last card to be changed is a overnerfed Charge. This buff should make it a solid Control card simillar to a Power Word: Shield
EDIT: Corrected typos, Blizzard revealed the changes
Thats why there should be people that think a lot before they nerf or move anything to wild, moving Leeroy and Gadgetzan Auctioneer to wild how we will play with miracle rogue, a deck that already not tier 1 still loses i think more that 50% as its difficult deck to play also and we will destroy it, and then what jade rogue or maly rogue? emperor is going wild also if they move Gadgetzan Auctioneer to wild why not Ysera , Alexstrasza , ragnaros and many other classic good cards that other classes or decks need and dominate the game.
Do you think that Blizzard really wants us to play a Miracle Rogue forever ? Just think about that. That's not point of Standard. They already said they want Standard to be different with every rotation and they said that they nerf cards if they won't archive it naturally. If you want a different meta every year play Standard if you want to play Miracle forever play Wild that's the point of two ladder modes man :)
Why move these two and not Ysera ? You can play Ysera in any deck and you don't need o run anything that combos with , but these two require you to run whole deck around them and that means that you will probably want to run just a very limited types of cards and if most of these types of cards are in classic or basic set you create a stale "centre of deck" that won't change with any new cards or rotation and that's were we are returning to the - Do you think that Blizzard really wants us to play a Miracle Rogue forever ?
Some of these a good, and some of them are VERY VERY BAD. Examples of some of the baddies: Mysterious Challenger: Secret Paladin isn't even tier 1 in Wild. Small Time Bucc: Now it becomes a 2/3?? That just means that you win if you have Bucc + First Mate.. Ice Block: Move it to Wild instead of destroying the card. Drakonoid OP: Nerf makes no sence, you literally removed the concept of the card... Dragon Priest isn't even tier 1.
Some of these a good, and some of them are VERY VERY BAD. Examples of some of the baddies: Mysterious Challenger: Secret Paladin isn't even tier 1 in Wild. Small Time Bucc: Now it becomes a 2/3?? That just means that you win if you have Bucc + First Mate.. Ice Block: Move it to Wild instead of destroying the card. Drakonoid OP: Nerf makes no sence, you literally removed the concept of the card... Dragon Priest isn't even tier 1.
Fist of all thanks a lot for a solid constructive feedback.
Small-Time Bucc as 2/3 was a typo (fixed allready).
Mysterious Challenger: We probably play different Wilds. No matter what that card is broken and it deserves a nerf (maybe a 5/5 nerf would more accurate?) .
Ice Block: Do you think that 18 armor solution would destroy it ? Well , if yes than you are right it's better to move it ofc.
Drakonid Op: I mean the archetype might not be tier one, but that doesn't mean that this card isn't broken. Just look at the pure value it gives ! Do you think that a 5/5 nerf would be better ?
Why should Blade Flurry be moved to wild? At 3 mana it would be a reasonable alternative to fan, not drawing you a card but in decks where you have more weapon interactions (e.g. Pirate Rogues) dealing more damage. I think Thing from below should just be changed to gain stats when it's in your hand for consistency with cards like Knight of the wild. Then you would rarely get it to zero mana unless you're playing totem shaman. Great changes overall, probably the coolest is the Fiery win axe nerf.
Challenger would be good as a 5/5, but all that you'll see at high-ranks in Wild is usually Pirate Warrior, Reno decks Ice Block wouldn't be bad, but it would ruin the theme of it. (also it's one of those ''iconic'' cards like Ragnaros or Sylvanas that'd be better rotated out than changed) Drakonid OP: It's overpowered as hell (Blizz tends to do that when they push stuff), but it's the single reason as to why Dragon Priest is a viable deck and Dragon Priest is going away with the next rotation no matter what. If Drakonid should be nerfed so should Kazakus and Reno, they're t least as over powered as Drakonid - probably more. (and I'm not saying this because I play Dragon Priest, I personally think it's boring and I don't even own more than 2 wings of Blackrock :D)
Force of Nature: Is now just a Leeroy with Savage Roar synergy, it's current version is pretty good to discover when playing Token Druid. :) Innervate: While this argueably is the most broken card in the game, I don't think your nerf really does all that much... :P
I think force of nature should be buffed at least in some way, it's basically the exact same as Doppelgangster, except for the fact that Doppelgangster is neutral and has synergy with hand buffs. Honestly every class card that is the same as a neutral card should be buffed.
Jade Idol now either summons a jade or adds two Jade Spirits to your hand. This would improve the card against aggro but give control a chance
Huffer is now a 3/2. This is still better than Wolfrider and when Reno Jackson leaves expect to lose to this stupidity once again
Why would you nerf Huffer? Also I think Jade idol should just shuffle 3 "Jade maps" into your deck. These cards would only be able to summon jade golems and not give you infinite value.
Challenger would be good as a 5/5, but all that you'll see at high-ranks in Wild is usually Pirate Warrior, Reno decks Ice Block wouldn't be bad, but it would ruin the theme of it. (also it's one of those ''iconic'' cards like Ragnaros or Sylvanas that'd be better rotated out than changed) Drakonid OP: It's overpowered as hell (Blizz tends to do that when they push stuff), but it's the single reason as to why Dragon Priest is a viable deck and Dragon Priest is going away with the next rotation no matter what. If Drakonid should be nerfed so should Kazakus and Reno, they're t least as over powered as Drakonid - probably more. (and I'm not saying this because I play Dragon Priest, I personally think it's boring and I don't even own more than 2 wings of Blackrock :D)
Force of Nature: Is now just a Leeroy with Savage Roar synergy, it's current version is pretty good to discover when playing Token Druid. :) Innervate: While this argueably is the most broken card in the game, I don't think your nerf really does all that much... :P
Once again thanks for your feedback....
Challenger:. Ok, don't know why, but I still face Secret Paladin quite a lot so that's why a suggested the nerf. I realised that a 4/4 would be an overkill for a Secret paladin as a archeotype and changed to a 5/5 nerf.
Ice Block: Good point. I guess it's about a personal preference though. I am not sure if I would prefer to play changed Ice Block everywhere or good old original just in Wild.
Drakonid: You're right after rotation this card shouldn't be a problem and I could potentionally remove it from the list, but it's so broken that when I want to nerf something less broken it just doesn't feel right to keep this unchanged. I wouldn't say that Kazakus or Reno are anyway near to this one though.
Force of Nature: Another good point as I said that change is really questionable.
Innervate: Well, you're right once again, but I can think of a better changed that wouldn't a) change this card completly or b) kill this card completely.
Jade Idol now either summons a jade or adds two Jade Spirits to your hand. This would improve the card against aggro but give control a chance
Huffer is now a 3/2. This is still better than Wolfrider and when Reno Jackson leaves expect to lose to this stupidity once again
Why would you nerf Huffer? Also I think Jade idol should just shuffle 3 "Jade maps" into your deck. These cards would only be able to summon jade golems and not give you infinite value.
Speaking of Hunter it seems that I somehow managed to compleletly miss him from nerfs. Do you think that's right ? Because as for now I can only think of one card that would deserve to be hitted and I am not even sure if that nerf would really be needed.
If they move gadgetzan auctioneer in to wild, there is no Rogue anymore. All Rogue decks are heavily based on gadgetzan and i doubt that the new expansion/adventure will change that.
And you say we will be stuck with freeze mage, in my opinion there haven't been a real freeze mage in long time. Personally i would play against freeze mage any day, any where if that means there is no more pirate warrior.
And what comes with operative. I dont think we need to worry about it, when rotation comes, dragon priest will rest in peace. At least in standard.
I think small time buccaneer is the only card with real problem, but with 1/1 (+1attack with weapon), no one will play it anymore. There are 1 drop minions with much better stats and they doesen't require a weapon. So maybe 1/1 and +2 attack with weapon. Much easier to deal with, but it still can make some damage. Or 1/2 and +1 attack with weapon. Littlebit stickier, but 2/2 1 drop ain't bad.
I am neutral towards un-nerfing the 2016 classic nerfs and moving to wild, since cherry picking class cards to delete from classic is problematic.
Innervate, ice block, and prep are not problem cards IMO. they are class defining cards. Freeze mage is a non factor. Even with a ban, it has so many dreadful matchups that it loses no threat to the integrity of the game on ladder and in competitive play. Even with Innervate, druid is on the edge of oblivion. There is no limitation on design space. Kudos to players who manage to survive long enough to pull some 12 mana combo. same goes for prep. 33% of the time prep is a dead card and rogue dies t5. That risk justifies the payoff.
IMO taking action on auctioneer bc miracle rogue is premature. they purposefully designed cards for rogue that specifically synergize with this, and purposefully designed complete shit for alternatives. oil rogue didnt even use auctioneer. They could easily design a compelling archetype for rogue that would not require auctioneer, but instead they reprint brewmasters and magma ragers. Why should players be punished for team 5's own malfeasance?
Well basically iam not a man... but... yea you are right thats why they are moving adventures and expansion cards to wild they never said that they will move classic or basic cards to wild only that they will nerf them , and actioneer is already nerfed,..
First of all sorry for that wrong expression. I would recommend you to watch this video in which Lead Game Designer Ben Brode(apart from other improtant things he talks about) speaks about the possibility that this time they might move some Basic and Classic cards to Wild instead of nerfing them and explains which benefits and which cons it has.
EDIT :Thank you everybody for the feedback. Thanks to it I have removed the Drakonid Operative from the list.
Jade Idol now either summons a jade or adds two Jade Spirits to your hand. This would improve the card against aggro but give control a chance
Huffer is now a 3/2. This is still better than Wolfrider and when Reno Jackson leaves expect to lose to this stupidity once again
It would change the strategy behind jade druid: no gadgetzan combo, risk of milling the entire deck since it's a drawing based deck. Plus a weak early game.
Probably the right solution could be reducing Jade Behemoth mana cost to counter aggro and putting a cap for the number of Jade Idol stored in the deck
Maybe they could make it so it just shuffles plain old jade golems into the deck? Then it won't have auctioneer synergy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On the third day before Witchwood, Blizzard gave to me,
Thats why there should be people that think a lot before they nerf or move anything to wild, moving Leeroy and Gadgetzan Auctioneer to wild how we will play with miracle rogue, a deck that already not tier 1 still loses i think more that 50% as its difficult deck to play also and we will destroy it, and then what jade rogue or maly rogue? emperor is going wild also if they move Gadgetzan Auctioneer to wild why not Ysera , Alexstrasza , ragnaros and many other classic good cards that other classes or decks need and dominate the game.
Do you think that Blizzard really wants us to play a Miracle Rogue forever ? Just think about that. That's not point of Standard. They already said they want Standard to be different with every rotation and they said that they nerf cards if they won't archive it naturally. If you want a different meta every year play Standard if you want to play Miracle forever play Wild that's the point of two ladder modes man :)
Why move these two and not Ysera ? You can play Ysera in any deck and you don't need o run anything that combos with , but these two require you to run whole deck around them and that means that you will probably want to run just a very limited types of cards and if most of these types of cards are in classic or basic set you create a stale "centre of deck" that won't change with any new cards or rotation and that's were we are returning to the - Do you think that Blizzard really wants us to play a Miracle Rogue forever ?
Well basically iam not a man... but... yea you are right thats why they are moving adventures and expansion cards to wild they never said that they will move classic or basic cards to wild only that they will nerf them , and actioneer is already nerfed, ..in addition each class has a basic style of playing for example rogue need that style of playing or else how he will survive, he dont have control decks if we want completely new style of game then why just dont remove all neutral cards to wild why just actioneer, why not sylvanas also and many many others that some classes uses over and over again in all decks from beggining (ysera, alestrasza, azure drake, doomsayer, malygos, cairne, murloc warleader etc etc...) ...... to these classes changes dont matter? i just dont think blizzard will move any classic or basic card to wild if they do it for one why not for all then because its something like unfair for other classes. The most important thing right now is too make better balance between classes and decks and not just change the completely way of style each class playing or else lets change the hero powers also fro new game and use the old ones in wild...anyway thats my opinion some will agree some wont agree with me whatever happens blizzard is the one that will decide in the end..
The reason why Ysera, Azure drake and Doomsayer aren't important to move is because you don't build your deck around them. If your deck has Auctioneer, you will fill your deck with cheap spells and cards that synergize with that kind of effect. Azure Drake you just toss into decks for cycle and spell damage and Ysera for a big late game threat/dragon synergy. The difference is, that some cards you build a deck around, and some cards are used to support the deck. Like doomsayer for control decks to clear the board. Removing doomsayer won't bring more variety because decks that use it will just replace it with the next best thing. But if you remove Auctioneer, Miracle rogue loses it's heart and people will have to search for new decks, bringing fresh things to the meta.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On the third day before Witchwood, Blizzard gave to me,
I dislike the idea of moving things to wild, because I play wild. Wild shouldn't just be a dumpster for broken combos. Nerfs should keep wild playable. If it's a problem in standard, then it's a problem in wild.
I didn't read the full list of proposed nerfs before posting but now I have, I just feel that most of these cards don't really require a nerf.
It's a shame that some of the cards have already received a nerf(blade flurry) and imo I don't think that so many cards require one or moving to wild. You don't need to remove every classes strongest cards because even with them they are still behind the shaman.
I honestly believe the problems lay at the feet of the shaman and this is because the class was so backwards that it received 3 expansions of considerable buffs. Personally I have a good win rate vs shaman with renolock and this is because renolock has received extra control tools to deal with a class that can populate a board in 1 turn. Pre mean streets I couldn't effectively and consistently deal with mid range shaman but now I can, and so can you.
Most of the cards don't belong on this list, just my opinion, it's just shaman that needs to lose some of its power so tempo mage, zoolock, pally, and the other decks can come back. They're all strong vs other decks but they aren't really competitive because of shaman.
I don't know how far have you read my post, but actually suggest to buff Blade Flurry or to buff it in a different way and move it to Wild. You're right Shaman is a problem. They just overbuffed him. I mean it's not so bad as it was that's why I am suggesting to nerf three of his Class cards. However, I choosed to don't nerf just cards which are broken. I also nerfed cards ,which are hurting the standard abilitty to be fresh every year , because that's what the designers said that they will do and that what's good for the Standard mode and Hearstone in genaral. More on which card are INHO hurting Standard mode and why in my previous posts (mainly replies to Annulla and in the main post).
Fiery Waraxe (2/2), Leeroy Jenkins is fine in Standard (same stats), Gadgetzhan Auctioneer (4/3), Flametongue Totem to (0/2), Totem Golem to (3/3), Jade Idol shuffle 2 copies, Gorhowl (6/1), Questing Adventurer (2/3) , gains +1 attack on each card played, Edwin Vancleef gains +2 +1, Hex 4 mana, Conceal 2 mana, Tunnel Trogg (1/2).
Some interesting points. Here few ones worth reply:
Kidnapper: You are probably right a 5/5 would be way to risky. Changed it to the 5/4 (4mana body + combo only Sap)
Fiery War Axe: Way too big nerf you just killed the card and that's not the point
Flametongue: Is one of the targets that could be hit, but I prefer nerfing non-ever green-cards if it's just, because "one class is op for a while". I mean do you remember pre-TGT shaman ? Do you really want to make that Classic and Basic Set even worse ?
Totem Golem: You just killed card that is going to be rotated. Why would you do that, when shaman isn't any problem in Wild?
Jade Idol: Interesting idea. What do you think that would be changed with this nerf ? I meant Jade would be slower than now, but Agro is allready killing it and Control still wouldn't have a way how to kill that close to fatigue Jades.
Gorehowl: I don't think that this card is problem. Sure it's solid control tool that will stay with us forever, but what's wrong on that ?
Questing Adventurer: I just don't think that this card would be a problem at not now and not in the Standard 2017 year. Also if there would be any problem I think it auto-solves with a Auctioneer's trip to Wild.
Edwin: Great nerf, I would support it if the Auctionner would stay as it or was nerfed as you say, but INHO with Auctioneer's trip to Wild everything would be solved.
Gadgetzhan Auctioneer : You see? How many "broken" cards would be allright if this card went to Wild. That's why I think it's the best solution.
Hex: I dont think that hex is broken plus the "shaman with classic and basic was really weak" problem
Conceal: This card is OP, because it can give Stealth to the Gadgetzhan Auctioneer. So, once again every thing would be okey with his trip to Wild.
Tunnel Trog : Same as Totem Golem.
I dislike the idea of moving things to wild, because I play wild. Wild shouldn't just be a dumpster for broken combos. Nerfs should keep wild playable. If it's a problem in standard, then it's a problem in wild.
Well that's not guite true. Wild environment is much bigger. There's much more decks, much more cards,much more tech tools that can people run against your deck and so on. There is more competion. What do you need to do when you want to shine in a bigger competion ? You need to get better. So, cards which are problem in Standard might not be broken in Wild, because they simply run in to the much bigger competion than they used to face in the Standard. The great prove is a Shaman. Just look at how broken this class was pre-nerfs in Standard and at the sime time it wasn't even in a Tier 1 in WIld. Sure there are different cases as for exemple Pirate, which is even stroger in Wild, because of more synegies it has over there. However, as you can see (from my post) all cards that are really broken and might be dangerous even for a big competion in Wild meta are suggested to be nerfed and not moved to Wild.
Hi everybody,this is the list of suggested Standard changes I posted before Blizzard came out with 2017's nerfs and rotations. Now, I want to hear your feedback. Are any of my changes better than the official ones ? Is there any change on my list that should be done and isn't on the Blizzard's list ? Which changes from my list are just terrible and why ? Let me now in the comments below !
This aggresive card known as a part of the Pirate Package ( which was included in many different meta dominating decks) is in the most of cases just a straight up upgraded Flame Imp. This nerf should hurt his abilitty to survive on the board while you don't have a weapon. This nerf should also improve the efficiency of anti-pirate tech cards like [card]Acidic Swamp Ooze [/card
Blizzard's and my comparison:
Blizzard decided to nerf this card harder than I suggested. I can't judge if that's good for the game or not ,but on the parer the Blizzard's Small-Time is just a 0 drop (Murloc Tinifin) in the worst case scenario and a normal 1 drop ( restated Enchanted Raven) in the best case scenario. So it's pretty underpowered. However, that's just "on the parer" and even the most underpowered cards can be wildly played If they fit the right purpose in the right deck. They just went for the safest way how to significaly turn down the power level of Small-Time and I kinda get it. To compare my and Blizzard's nerf : the main goal of Blizzard nerf was to make this card significally less strong (even if it would mean that we will end up with unplayble trash) while the main goal of my nerf was to make card less broken and still playable. You can decide what's better.
The nerf of a Molten Giant was indeed in a mistake. The original Molten Giant was indeed a little bit overpowered, but the only reason why they nerfed this card as hard as they did was to that hey wanted to "force the change of meta". So, now they should finally admit they that made a mistake, and they should rebalance this card and move it to the wild. I think that 22 mana cost is an accurate change for this case.
Blizzard's and comparison:
I don't know why, but changes to the Molten Giant were postponed to 2018. That's just weird, because it seems like a pretty clear step, which most of the players would be thankful about.
While the Secrekeeper might not seem as huge meta destroyer it's indeed the strogest classic 1 drop and it's very simillar to the pre-nerf Undertaker. Firstly I wanted to hit it hard just, because of this fact and how "Secret design space" limiting this is, but then I realised that this small nerf might be enough for now.
This is the change I am really sad about, because I like both of these cards, but they are way to much "single archeotype pushing" to stay with us in the Standard environment.
Classes - Druid:
While I do think that Blizzard will nerf much more of Druid Basic or Classic Classic cards, INHO this is the only one, which really deserves it. It's really powerfull 0 mana card (which general means a lot of problems), which pushes druid in to the one stereotypical Archeotype (Ramp).
This one is really questionable and would need a serious in game testing. I know that there is a lot of people, who would like to play a balanced version of old combo druid in Wild, but the question is "Is there a Balanced combo druid or the whole point Archetype was broken and there's nothing to do with that ? If there is a balanced Force Nature than this one might be it. It summons just two 3/2s so it deals two less damage together with Savage Roar and it's also much worse if you want to use it for trading.
I am sure that Ancient of Lore nerf needs to be reconsidered. However I am not sure which way it should be done. I am sure that 5/7 would be fine in Wild, but way too auto-include card in Standard (especially with Fandaral in the rotation) . So what would you do ? Hurt Wild and make it 5/6 or hurt Standard and make it 5/7 Wild only. I mean we shouldn't move to many cards to the Wild, because we would end up with low number of cards in a rotation or and that's even worse we would end up with "Trash and the Rest" Set in the rotation, but it's still a hard choice.
Classes - Paladin:
Mysterious Challenger: is now a 5/5
This card is just way too broken even for a Wild environment. In wild you rather play a secret paladin or you need play a package of anti-secret techs and that's not funny any more. Just hit it Blizzard, hit it hard !
Classes Mage:
This and Mana Wyrm are auto-includes in every aggressive mage decks. This card's abilitty is way to strong and creates some isane situations with Mana Wyrm on the board and yet this card has no stat paytment for such a abilitty. Well, this should be changed.
We now learned that Freeze mage is just staying with us forever without any bigger changes to it's concept until something really happens (to the Ice Block). This change would make Ice Block usable only if your opponent's board isn't out of your control and filled with tons of high attack minions or key combo pieces. Than there's always a second option - move Ice Block ( and whole freeze mage) to wild and keep it without nerfs.
Classes Rogue:
Another strong zero mana card which pushes a class in to one archeotype (Miracle one), which deserves a nerf.
The Blade Flurry nerf was a really huge overnerf. While I do think that the original card was way to cheap and that the fact that it could good face was just ridiculus I think that making cost two mana more instead of just one was an overkill, which was done to " force a change of Standard". So, there are two ways how to fix this card rather making it a cheap both modes AOE for rogue or kinda expensive Wild-only combo peace for Oil Combo Archeotype. I think that the first one seems really reasonable.
This card is just so weak that I fell bad, when I want to nerf card in the class with this trash in ever-green set. This change should make a playable, but still not something like auto-include card.
Classes-Shaman:
General note: I know that will be hited hard by the rotation, but following cards are just so broken itself that they can't remain unerfed.
This one mana weapon was used in almost every aggresive or mid-range shaman deck since it's release. One mana weapon that can be a 3/3 weapon if the not quite that hard condition is met is just way to broken for game like Hearthstone. This nerf should make it still good and in line with a (also) nerfed Fiery War Axe.
4 mana 7/7 was a step in to the wrong direction. This card is just soo good if you haven't got some advance or you if don't top deck a hard removal your opponent just won. This change should make your trades into it much easier and make it dying to spells like Fireball.
This card is way too good, because summoning of totems is something that you want to the in Shaman anyway and this card benefits you for doing just way too much. This nerf should make this card balanced ,but not broken.
Classes- Warrior:
The 2 mana 3/2 weapon is just way too universal. It's really strong as a control tool, but it's strong like agro tool as well and that's really really wrong. In the ever-green set, there just shouldn't someting which is auto-included and almost broken in every SINGLE warrior's deck no matter what archetype it is. So, that's way I decided to change this weapon, so it's usable only as a preety strong control tool.
This card is a 3 mana 2/4 , which can easily decide games and deal up to 24 damage if it goes out of your opponent's control. It was proved that this type of card isn't welcome in any kind of the meta. This card was broken in a Patron deck, this card was broken in Combo decks and now it is broken in agro Pirate warrior. So, it's time to nerf it. This change would make it much less dangerous while keeping it playable. The nerfed version would be pretty simillar to a Darkshire Councilman.
Last card to be changed is a overnerfed Charge. This buff should make it a solid Control card simillar to a Power Word: Shield
EDIT: Corrected typos, Blizzard revealed the changes
Take a look at my card creations here in vojza's mini expansion topic.
Just no.
Do you think that Blizzard really wants us to play a Miracle Rogue forever ? Just think about that. That's not point of Standard. They already said they want Standard to be different with every rotation and they said that they nerf cards if they won't archive it naturally. If you want a different meta every year play Standard if you want to play Miracle forever play Wild that's the point of two ladder modes man :)
Why move these two and not Ysera ? You can play Ysera in any deck and you don't need o run anything that combos with , but these two require you to run whole deck around them and that means that you will probably want to run just a very limited types of cards and if most of these types of cards are in classic or basic set you create a stale "centre of deck" that won't change with any new cards or rotation and that's were we are returning to the - Do you think that Blizzard really wants us to play a Miracle Rogue forever ?
Take a look at my card creations here in vojza's mini expansion topic.
Some of these a good, and some of them are VERY VERY BAD.
Examples of some of the baddies:
Mysterious Challenger: Secret Paladin isn't even tier 1 in Wild.
Small Time Bucc: Now it becomes a 2/3?? That just means that you win if you have Bucc + First Mate..
Ice Block: Move it to Wild instead of destroying the card.
Drakonoid OP: Nerf makes no sence, you literally removed the concept of the card... Dragon Priest isn't even tier 1.
Any other exemples of Bad Nerfs ?
Take a look at my card creations here in vojza's mini expansion topic.
Why should Blade Flurry be moved to wild? At 3 mana it would be a reasonable alternative to fan, not drawing you a card but in decks where you have more weapon interactions (e.g. Pirate Rogues) dealing more damage. I think Thing from below should just be changed to gain stats when it's in your hand for consistency with cards like Knight of the wild. Then you would rarely get it to zero mana unless you're playing totem shaman. Great changes overall, probably the coolest is the Fiery win axe nerf.
Challenger would be good as a 5/5, but all that you'll see at high-ranks in Wild is usually Pirate Warrior, Reno decks
Ice Block wouldn't be bad, but it would ruin the theme of it. (also it's one of those ''iconic'' cards like Ragnaros or Sylvanas that'd be better rotated out than changed)
Drakonid OP: It's overpowered as hell (Blizz tends to do that when they push stuff), but it's the single reason as to why Dragon Priest is a viable deck and Dragon Priest is going away with the next rotation no matter what.
If Drakonid should be nerfed so should Kazakus and Reno, they're t least as over powered as Drakonid - probably more. (and I'm not saying this because I play Dragon Priest, I personally think it's boring and I don't even own more than 2 wings of Blackrock :D)
Force of Nature: Is now just a Leeroy with Savage Roar synergy, it's current version is pretty good to discover when playing Token Druid. :)
Innervate: While this argueably is the most broken card in the game, I don't think your nerf really does all that much... :P
I think force of nature should be buffed at least in some way, it's basically the exact same as Doppelgangster, except for the fact that Doppelgangster is neutral and has synergy with hand buffs. Honestly every class card that is the same as a neutral card should be buffed.
Jade Idol now either summons a jade or adds two Jade Spirits to your hand. This would improve the card against aggro but give control a chance
Huffer is now a 3/2. This is still better than Wolfrider and when Reno Jackson leaves expect to lose to this stupidity once again
Once again thanks for your feedback....
Take a look at my card creations here in vojza's mini expansion topic.
Take a look at my card creations here in vojza's mini expansion topic.
If they move gadgetzan auctioneer in to wild, there is no Rogue anymore. All Rogue decks are heavily based on gadgetzan and i doubt that the new expansion/adventure will change that.
And you say we will be stuck with freeze mage, in my opinion there haven't been a real freeze mage in long time. Personally i would play against freeze mage any day, any where if that means there is no more pirate warrior.
And what comes with operative. I dont think we need to worry about it, when rotation comes, dragon priest will rest in peace. At least in standard.
I think small time buccaneer is the only card with real problem, but with 1/1 (+1attack with weapon), no one will play it anymore. There are 1 drop minions with much better stats and they doesen't require a weapon. So maybe 1/1 and +2 attack with weapon. Much easier to deal with, but it still can make some damage. Or 1/2 and +1 attack with weapon. Littlebit stickier, but 2/2 1 drop ain't bad.
I agree with fwa, frothing, TV, and spirit claws.
I am neutral towards un-nerfing the 2016 classic nerfs and moving to wild, since cherry picking class cards to delete from classic is problematic.
Innervate, ice block, and prep are not problem cards IMO. they are class defining cards. Freeze mage is a non factor. Even with a ban, it has so many dreadful matchups that it loses no threat to the integrity of the game on ladder and in competitive play. Even with Innervate, druid is on the edge of oblivion. There is no limitation on design space. Kudos to players who manage to survive long enough to pull some 12 mana combo. same goes for prep. 33% of the time prep is a dead card and rogue dies t5. That risk justifies the payoff.
IMO taking action on auctioneer bc miracle rogue is premature. they purposefully designed cards for rogue that specifically synergize with this, and purposefully designed complete shit for alternatives. oil rogue didnt even use auctioneer. They could easily design a compelling archetype for rogue that would not require auctioneer, but instead they reprint brewmasters and magma ragers. Why should players be punished for team 5's own malfeasance?
Take a look at my card creations here in vojza's mini expansion topic.
On the third day before Witchwood, Blizzard gave to me,
three Handlock decks,
two Molten Giants
and a winstreak to Legend Rank #3
Disclaimer: This is a fictional poem and this didn't actually happen to me.
On the third day before Witchwood, Blizzard gave to me,
three Handlock decks,
two Molten Giants
and a winstreak to Legend Rank #3
Disclaimer: This is a fictional poem and this didn't actually happen to me.
5/5 is op for that effect, it should be 4/4 IMHO,
Fiery Waraxe (2/2),
Leeroy Jenkins is fine in Standard (same stats),
Gadgetzhan Auctioneer (4/3),
Flametongue Totem to (0/2),
Totem Golem to (3/3),
Jade Idol shuffle 2 copies,
Gorhowl (6/1),
Questing Adventurer (2/3) , gains +1 attack on each card played,
Edwin Vancleef gains +2 +1,
Hex 4 mana,
Conceal 2 mana,
Tunnel Trogg (1/2).
I dislike the idea of moving things to wild, because I play wild. Wild shouldn't just be a dumpster for broken combos. Nerfs should keep wild playable. If it's a problem in standard, then it's a problem in wild.
Take a look at my card creations here in vojza's mini expansion topic.