Vicious syndicate just posted their wild meta report and all seemed pretty on target but one of the focal points of the report was that recruit pally has the edge over Reno priest. I've played over 300 games of Reno priest over the past 2 seasons and let me tell you...this couldn't be further from the truth. I've played at least 50 games against recruit pally and I have only ever lost 2 of those games. I guess you can say that most players playing Reno priest in wild have very very suboptimal builds, some that completely missed the boat, like the ones playing the quest and those with dragons and then some that just have multiple suboptimal cards in them like entomb, voljin, recruiter and many other cards that sort of lose sight of the purpose of the deck. (Btw I'm not saying don't play those cards, go right ahead and play what you enjoy but its just not the best choices for high laddering.) But if you play with a list that is very focused on the prize, which is winning the highest percentage of games, you have the most aoe of any class and can destroy every single onslaught of silver hand recruits that is thrown your way. Between wild pyro, spirit lash, auchenai circle, (pint-sized) horror), dragonfire potion, lightbomb, and whatever else you get from Lyra (if you run him), and the fact that you can milk them for cards from acolyte and northshire cleric, there's just no way to lose and be unfavored! So I don't really understand why vs says that pally has the edge.
By playing enough games I'm %100 sure that if you run an optimal reno priest list rectruit paladin is your best match up.
Vicious syndicate just posted their wild meta report and all seemed pretty on target but one of the focal points of the report was that recruit pally has the edge over Reno priest. I've played over 300 games of Reno priest over the past 2 seasons and let me tell you...this couldn't be further from the truth. I've played at least 50 games against recruit pally and I have only ever lost 2 of those games. I guess you can say that most players playing Reno priest in wild have very very suboptimal builds, some that completely missed the boat, like the ones playing the quest and those with dragons and then some that just have multiple suboptimal cards in them like entomb, voljin, recruiter and many other cards that sort of lose sight of the purpose of the deck. (Btw I'm not saying don't play those cards, go right ahead and play what you enjoy but its just not the best choices for high laddering.) But if you play with a list that is very focused on the prize, which is winning the highest percentage of games, you have the most aoe of any class and can destroy every single onslaught of silver hand recruits that is thrown your way. Between wild pyro, spirit lash, auchenai circle, (pint-sized) horror), dragonfire potion, lightbomb, and whatever else you get from Lyra (if you run him), and the fact that you can milk them for cards from acolyte and northshire cleric, there's just no way to lose and be unfavored! So I don't really understand why vs says that pally has the edge.
By playing enough games I'm %100 sure that if you run an optimal reno priest list rectruit paladin is your best match up.
The reason this is is that most don't play it optimally.
If you run a list that is optimal to deal with them, then yes, you probably win almost all games. Now is the list they are refering to in VS running all those AoEs? Also, what do you mean farm recruits with Acolyte and Cleric? It's not like a good player will summon recruits when you have a Cleric or Acolyte on board unless they can buff them right away... A good player will not give you cards when you are playing a deck which needs card draw to function well...
Highlander Priest, being a Combo deck that falls under Control, should, like most Control decks, have a tougher matchup against Midrange decks, which the Paladin is. That can obviously adjusted by the exact builds being used though.
The reason why Reno priest is one of the best combo decks in history is because it's so good against board flooding aggro decks. And every Reno priest deck should be built with enough aoe to deal with pally boards because it's one of the most popular decks right now.
I have only ever reached rank 9 so I can't say that the higher ranks would be the same but I find that playing recruit pal I have a pretty even match up with reno priest. As a previous poster mentioned as long as you aren't a moron and save your recruits for immediate buffs or when you are sure your opponent has no answer to leave them for a round (just used an AoE/ number of cards left in their hand/ board state) you can make massive swings both in life total and in tempo. Especially by using the 3/3 that gives your 1 health minions divine shield and following that (say the summon 5 or summon 3 and 1/4 wep) with a qm or lightforged or sunkeeper next turn. Again I never get into the higher ranks due to lack of play time and anxiety when reaching personal high ranks but I don't imagine your play history is true of the reno priest recruit match up in general. As people previously said perhaps you just have a deck better optimized for this specific match up but I don't doubt overall that it is more even than you think.
I don't understand the skepticism. I'm running wild pyromancer-full clear (clears even divine shielded boards), Spirit lash-full clear and heal, shadow word horror-full clears through divine shielded + pint sized if buffed, auchenai circle-full clear plus additional removal along with a hero power, dragon fire potion-full clear, lightbomb-full clear. Oh, and I forgot to mention kazakus potions for full clears and massive flexibility. The decks runs so much aoe it's insane. It's one of the only control decks that are favored vs aggro druid which is perhaps the fastest deck in the game. So please people...Im playing most of my games at high ranks and my opponents are good players and it doesn't take much skill from my end of it to see a board clear a board, over and over and over...
I don't understand the skepticism. I'm running wild pyromancer-full clear (clears even divine shielded boards), Spirit lash-full clear and heal, shadow word horror-full clears through divine shielded + pint sized if buffed, auchenai circle-full clear plus additional removal along with a hero power, dragon fire potion-full clear, lightbomb-full clear. Oh, and I forgot to mention kazakus potions for full clears and massive flexibility. The decks runs so much aoe it's insane. It's one of the only control decks that are favored vs aggro druid which is perhaps the fastest deck in the game. So please people...Im playing most of my games at high ranks and my opponents are good players and it doesn't take much skill from my end of it to see a board clear a board, over and over and over...
Pyromance is only a clear if they are not buffed, not to mention, you need cheap spells aswell, Pyro's effect is a trigger. This means it's a combo of single cards in you deck. Spirit Lash is only when they are not buffed. Horror is only when they are not buffed, otherwise you need Pint-Sized, which are also one offs and need to be a specific combination of 2 cards in 30. Alchenai + Circle, just like the previous one, is a 2 card combo of 2 specific cards in 30. The only easy clears are Dragonfire and Lightbomb, both 6 Mana, which is not the early game, by this time a board flood deck already has the option to deal massive damage if they didn't alraedy, and they are also 1 offs. If you couple this with card draw that is also limited to 1 offs and no option to slow them down with freezes, the fact that Kazakus is random..
There is a very important point that most Pro players will tell you, which is, when playing against Highlander decks, you mostly don't play around anything because the decks are singles so the likelyhood of the opponent having the cards in hand are half of the normal, meaning very low. This is not just something they say for fun, it is just reality. If you deck is all one offs, you drop it's consistency, Each and every tool you have needs to be drawn but you have less chances to draw them because you only have one of each...
It shouldn't be too hard to understand...
I guess you haven't played the match up too often. What can i tell you, I just know from experience that it's such an easy match up for me. And by not playing around anything in singleton decks will not do you any good. Obviously you dont play around pain on turn 2 but you definitely play around anduin by turn 8 or else you'll lose more games than not. And besides, Reno priest has a certain amount of redundancy that all other Reno decks don't have. In almost all situations more than one card in the deck can deal with what you are facing, and that's pyro or lash, pain or smite or silence, death or anduin, dragonfire or lightbomb, and to top it off you have shadow visions which sort of makes every spell in your deck a 2 of in terms of consistency. And recruit paladins power isn't in comboing their buffs with their recruits, but In the ability to have a board stick and then buffing it. A turn 10 play of stand against darkness plus quartermaster is not a strong play vs Reno priest, it's a board that is easily dealt with. And wild pyro and spirit lash both do an amazing job of cleaning up after muster on turn 3, which is sort of the key turn, and comboing pyro with a cheap spell is super easy being that half of the deck is cheap spells:)
The last time I played against an all reactive Reno Priest deck, I played Lost in the Jungle, then did nothing but hero power until I was ready to kill him with Quartermasters. Won the game on turn 7 having only played 3 cards. Decks that run nothing but removal are really easy to manipulate, especially as a Paladin, who can replenish the board over and over without having to commit a single resource from hand.
Viciousyndicate is data based. So the data shared by players indicate that Recruits have a slightly favored matchup against Reno Priest and the pros that make the report agree on that. If OP has a good matchup against them probably is because you are playing a deck teched against flood decks, it will lower your winrate against other control decks.
I think Recruits can run the Reno Priest out of resources with the amount of reload the deck has. A good Paladin player will not let you draw much from Cleric and Acolyte, and Justicar is a handful for Priest, because they can make a board from nowhere and buff it for lethal. I just finished a game against Reno Priest when I forced the opponent to Reno at turn 6, next turn I just put Windyfury at my board of 4 4/1 recruits for lethal. The priest player used Spirit Lash and Pyro but I just got more boards than they had clears. That's happen more than often when the Reno deck is teched for draw instead of clears.
Mid-range pally used to completely crush control priest, as long as you hero-powered enough. Obviously times have changed considerably, both in tempo and value... but token paladin builds takes that tactic up to 11 and exploits priests main problem... it is very inefficient for priest to do small amounts of damage (yes, even with raza+dk).
Well OP your deck specifically seems like it is teched out to beat recruit pal as well, and by your own admission you are seeing it roughly 1/5 matchups seems like a good call. If I was seeing any deck 1/5 I would tech against it too...
I'm playing Paladin this month in Wild. I do not think that Recruiter Paladin is as good as the report says it is, but it is good.
I played Recruiter Paladin from around Rank 9 to Rank 7 (running mid-range murloc deck before). My impression is that Recruiter Paladin is a bit less than 50% vs. Reno Priest. It is not really consistent. Maybe it was the list I netdecked. Basically you must give a lot of guys divine shield or you probably can't win. Also Priest cannot have a strong early curve, because Recruiter Paladin actually has a lot of trouble with Northshire Cleric and Radiant Elemental. A few days ago a salty Reno Priest messaged me to say "Undeserved" when I beat her arrogant face (Well Met!). I had gotten the right draws and right Adaptations on curve, which of course is the potential of the deck, and she did not have early answers.
Even though Recruiter Paladin is okay, I had to switch to a fairly pure Agro-Murloc deck to pass the hurdle from Rank 7 to the Rank 5. Wild is so aggressive that even against Reno Priest you really need a 1-drop on turn 1 or you'll lose. Recruiter is a mid-range deck that is combo dependent - I just don't think it's the greatest, but obviously the stats don't agree with me.
OP's deck runs an unusually amount of AoE for Reno Priest's standards, so that is why he claims to be so favored vs them. Also, notice that, even though VS data indicates that pala is favored, it is only slightly favored at 54%, so almost a tie
Vicious syndicate just posted their wild meta report and all seemed pretty on target but one of the focal points of the report was that recruit pally has the edge over Reno priest. I've played over 300 games of Reno priest over the past 2 seasons and let me tell you...this couldn't be further from the truth. I've played at least 50 games against recruit pally and I have only ever lost 2 of those games. I guess you can say that most players playing Reno priest in wild have very very suboptimal builds, some that completely missed the boat, like the ones playing the quest and those with dragons and then some that just have multiple suboptimal cards in them like entomb, voljin, recruiter and many other cards that sort of lose sight of the purpose of the deck. (Btw I'm not saying don't play those cards, go right ahead and play what you enjoy but its just not the best choices for high laddering.) But if you play with a list that is very focused on the prize, which is winning the highest percentage of games, you have the most aoe of any class and can destroy every single onslaught of silver hand recruits that is thrown your way. Between wild pyro, spirit lash, auchenai circle, (pint-sized) horror), dragonfire potion, lightbomb, and whatever else you get from Lyra (if you run him), and the fact that you can milk them for cards from acolyte and northshire cleric, there's just no way to lose and be unfavored! So I don't really understand why vs says that pally has the edge.
By playing enough games I'm %100 sure that if you run an optimal reno priest list rectruit paladin is your best match up.
I have only ever reached rank 9 so I can't say that the higher ranks would be the same but I find that playing recruit pal I have a pretty even match up with reno priest. As a previous poster mentioned as long as you aren't a moron and save your recruits for immediate buffs or when you are sure your opponent has no answer to leave them for a round (just used an AoE/ number of cards left in their hand/ board state) you can make massive swings both in life total and in tempo. Especially by using the 3/3 that gives your 1 health minions divine shield and following that (say the summon 5 or summon 3 and 1/4 wep) with a qm or lightforged or sunkeeper next turn. Again I never get into the higher ranks due to lack of play time and anxiety when reaching personal high ranks but I don't imagine your play history is true of the reno priest recruit match up in general. As people previously said perhaps you just have a deck better optimized for this specific match up but I don't doubt overall that it is more even than you think.
It's also worth mentioning that the Recruit Paladin builds people use in Wild also aren't necessarily optimal.
Perhaps, just perhaps, your personal experience is not an actual reflection of the meta.
I don't understand the skepticism. I'm running wild pyromancer-full clear (clears even divine shielded boards), Spirit lash-full clear and heal, shadow word horror-full clears through divine shielded + pint sized if buffed, auchenai circle-full clear plus additional removal along with a hero power, dragon fire potion-full clear, lightbomb-full clear. Oh, and I forgot to mention kazakus potions for full clears and massive flexibility. The decks runs so much aoe it's insane. It's one of the only control decks that are favored vs aggro druid which is perhaps the fastest deck in the game. So please people...Im playing most of my games at high ranks and my opponents are good players and it doesn't take much skill from my end of it to see a board clear a board, over and over and over...
The last time I played against an all reactive Reno Priest deck, I played Lost in the Jungle, then did nothing but hero power until I was ready to kill him with Quartermasters. Won the game on turn 7 having only played 3 cards. Decks that run nothing but removal are really easy to manipulate, especially as a Paladin, who can replenish the board over and over without having to commit a single resource from hand.
Viciousyndicate is data based. So the data shared by players indicate that Recruits have a slightly favored matchup against Reno Priest and the pros that make the report agree on that. If OP has a good matchup against them probably is because you are playing a deck teched against flood decks, it will lower your winrate against other control decks.
I think Recruits can run the Reno Priest out of resources with the amount of reload the deck has. A good Paladin player will not let you draw much from Cleric and Acolyte, and Justicar is a handful for Priest, because they can make a board from nowhere and buff it for lethal. I just finished a game against Reno Priest when I forced the opponent to Reno at turn 6, next turn I just put Windyfury at my board of 4 4/1 recruits for lethal. The priest player used Spirit Lash and Pyro but I just got more boards than they had clears. That's happen more than often when the Reno deck is teched for draw instead of clears.
Mid-range pally used to completely crush control priest, as long as you hero-powered enough. Obviously times have changed considerably, both in tempo and value... but token paladin builds takes that tactic up to 11 and exploits priests main problem... it is very inefficient for priest to do small amounts of damage (yes, even with raza+dk).
Well OP your deck specifically seems like it is teched out to beat recruit pal as well, and by your own admission you are seeing it roughly 1/5 matchups seems like a good call. If I was seeing any deck 1/5 I would tech against it too...
I'm playing Paladin this month in Wild. I do not think that Recruiter Paladin is as good as the report says it is, but it is good.
I played Recruiter Paladin from around Rank 9 to Rank 7 (running mid-range murloc deck before). My impression is that Recruiter Paladin is a bit less than 50% vs. Reno Priest. It is not really consistent. Maybe it was the list I netdecked. Basically you must give a lot of guys divine shield or you probably can't win. Also Priest cannot have a strong early curve, because Recruiter Paladin actually has a lot of trouble with Northshire Cleric and Radiant Elemental. A few days ago a salty Reno Priest messaged me to say "Undeserved" when I beat her arrogant face (Well Met!). I had gotten the right draws and right Adaptations on curve, which of course is the potential of the deck, and she did not have early answers.
Even though Recruiter Paladin is okay, I had to switch to a fairly pure Agro-Murloc deck to pass the hurdle from Rank 7 to the Rank 5. Wild is so aggressive that even against Reno Priest you really need a 1-drop on turn 1 or you'll lose. Recruiter is a mid-range deck that is combo dependent - I just don't think it's the greatest, but obviously the stats don't agree with me.
OP's deck runs an unusually amount of AoE for Reno Priest's standards, so that is why he claims to be so favored vs them. Also, notice that, even though VS data indicates that pala is favored, it is only slightly favored at 54%, so almost a tie
I've had a Silver Hand deck in Wild since Wild's inception. It's always been pretty strong and keeps getting better.