In that case, every legendary would be a 5, though (something like Temporus, King Togwaggle and Baku). In that case, a normal player would prefer going for the best statline, sure.
Otherwise, I do think that Azalina can be useful in specific situations, while both Baku and Genn are only understated bodies. If I compare it with the ratings of K&K:
Geosculptor Yip, Marin the Fox, Rin, the First Disciple got a 4 aswell, but all of them do have some uses. The Chest can actually impact quite heavily, Rin provides some free cards which are underwhelming in the beginning, but do get useful with time and Geosculptor can, with the right setup, be extremly rewarding. Baku though? Well... It has slightly better stats than Marin. To be honest, I would maybe consider Rhok'delar a better choice, even if only because it is a '7 mana 4 damage "charge"'.
I'm calling it, Echo cards are going to be the most powerful cards in the upcoming Witchwood arena meta. They just give you massive card advantage when no other types of card can. They can fill up your curve on multiple turns (think that's also what helps you build an odd/even cards only constructed deck), giving you the flexibility to react to the boardstate. Take Phantom militia as an exmaple, you can use it as a 2/4 taunt on turn 3, or sort of your own Spreading Plague on turn 9 onwards. Compare to card draws like Devour Mind, Echo cards are minions which they can be played immediately and you gain tempo right away. When your opponent sees you just drew 3 cards, they will try to end the game as soon as possible. But they can never expect an Echo card, generating huge value from one single card. Their value increases as the game progress and you would happily draft them no matter you have a aggro or control deck.
Glitter MothRating 5(Terrible): Sadly, this will rarely be useful in an Arena game.
Gloom StagRating 4(Poor): At least it keeps Taunt, regardless of the odd-only card bonus, but I would still rather have a Druid of the Claw instead.
Murkspark EelRating 3(Average): Like the other odd/even cards, I don't expect to get the bonus from this card, but it's still just fine as a two-drop.
Black CatRating 3(Average): Don't expect to get the card draw bonus, but it's still absolutely fine as a 3/3 for three mana and the Spell Damage +1 isn't a bad addition.
It was confirmed that the odd/even cards won't appear in Arena, so scratch that analysis!
Militia Commander is a (1) VERY strong board control card, it's not good to just drop it, but when trying to remove an opponent minion it does a really good job, at that, I think it's underestimated here.
I hope they just retire the odd/even costed cards from arena, there's no meaning to drafting most of them.
Black Cat Rating 3(Average): Don't expect to get the +1 Spell Damage bonus, but it's still absolutely fine as a 3/3 for three mana.
Well, the card draw in the Black Cat is the bonus, you mean that it won't use spell damage that much since without Firelands Portal we won't use damaging spells that often after it rotates?
He probably meant that the minion wont stay up for long, so you wont get much use from the Spell Damage, same as with any Spell Damage minion rly :) Its basically a Soot Spewer :)
Well, the card draw in the Black Cat is the bonus, you mean that it won't use spell damage that much since without Firelands Portal we won't use damaging spells that often after it rotates?
Yeah, whoops! I meant the card draw, because that's the bonus. I'll fix my original comment.
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
Militia Commander is a (1) VERY strong board control card, it's not good to just drop it, but when trying to remove an opponent minion it does a really good job, at that, I think it's underestimated here.
I hope they just retire the odd/even costed cards from arena, there's no meaning to drafting most of them.
Mby you have a point to an extent, i originally thought about it just like a slightly better Stormwind Knight, but its more like a Spiked Hogrider that just leaves a worse body behind (tho the good thing about hogrider is a 5/5 charge face for a "power play" sometimes), which is still quite good. I would definitely not call it a (1), but i will up it from (3) to (2) in my list, it is a decent control tool idd :)
Militia Commander is a (1) VERY strong board control card, it's not good to just drop it, but when trying to remove an opponent minion it does a really good job, at that, I think it's underestimated here.
I hope they just retire the odd/even costed cards from arena, there's no meaning to drafting most of them.
Mby you have a point to an extent, i originally thought about it just like a slightly better Stormwind Knight, but its more like a Spiked Hogrider that just leaves a worse body behind (tho the good think about hogrider is a 5/5 charge face for a "power play" sometimes), which is still quite good. I would definitely not call it a (1), but i will up it from (3) to (2) in my list, it is a decent control tool idd :)
I agree that it's probably worth bumping to a 2, but not more than that.
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
Face Collector - 2 - Low tempo play, but insane value card. Legendaries can be horrible to game breaking and in a slower meta this is a nice value generator into a potential game winning swing.
Warpath - 1 - Warrior gets a real AOE. Finally! Insanely flexible for an early game removal, or a late game wipe. You pay for the flexibility in mana, but its ridiculously good considering Warrior has never been given a solid AOE since Brawl. This is good enough to go into constructed decks, and make Frothing Berserker a huge threat for one turn KO's.
I finally got off my lazy butt, to share my over 4000 wins (which is worth something maybe...) arena opinions. And do agree or disagree with me, that's always the fun part.
Face Collector - 2.5 - This can be really good, though it can also backfire pretty bad. Getting a good and a meh legendary while getting two 2/2 bodies on the field on turn 6 is probably worth it.
Warpath - 1 - If this was in any other class I'd probably put this at 2 (since they already have other forms of AOE and it does hurt that it also damages your minions), but since this is warrior who got his first true AOE, I think it deserves a 1.
Even ignoring all of that, this card really is great, for the same reason Phantom Militia is, and that is flexibility. You can either use this as a small 1 or 2 damage weenie removal, or a big 5 damage clear. Oh and the cherry on top: this is a common.
Face Collector Rating 3(Average): It's a cool concept, that increases in value late game. You've got to keep in mind that drawing a Legendary doesn't guarantee you something good, just ask Lorewalker Cho.
Warpath Rating 1(Excellent): It's about time that Warrior got some decent removal! This is extremely flexible and shows a lot of promise. Since this is a Common it could end up being as frustrating as facing multiple Flamestrikes from Mages.
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
Face Collector (2): to be honest, i think this card will perform way better than we give it credit for, but it is just a horrible turn when you play it, i think the best thing you can do actually is to play it on T3, then it would be similar play to a Kabal Courier, not amazing, but it usually doesnt hurt that much. Playin two 2/2s or three 2/2s later on can ever be afforded only if you're winning, or if your're desperate AF. But like i said, even if you can get some crappy legendaries, i think this card will perform very well on average, most value generators do.
Warpath (1): very good versatile AOE, warrior can definitely use that. Nothing much to say about this card, super good.
I think that Face Collector is far better than you give it credit for - as long as it is in the right deck. That means:
- Bounce. If you can bounce one of your copies, you can create a lot additional value - Tempo: It is best in a deck that is fast-paced. Once you get against Control and loose tempo, you can now drop the Collector, gaining 8/8 stats and three legendaries. It is especially useful in a top-deck situation. - playing it as early as possible is the worst move you can make. You play Cabal quite early because you can decide what you pick, enabling yoou new strategies. Face Collector, though, does not generate similar value, since you have a higher chance to get something useless. I would hold on to it iuntil I can play it at least twice, or even later, to decide whetever I want more cards, or play my gained legendary.
That said, it is not a 1. I would probably mark it as 2 as well, with a 1-potential in the right deck.
I understand the argument for Face Collector, and I agree you can generate some excellent value in the late-game, but I'm coming from the mindset that there are a LOT of crappy Legendary cards and you are not guaranteed any high-rolls. Yes, this can be an excellent card that saves the day, but you can also burn your entire turn 6 (as an example) to put 4/4 worth of stats on the board and possible garbage in your hand. I feel the baseline is average (even though card advantage is king). It can definitely increase in value under the right circumstances.
I think that Face Collector is far better than you give it credit for - as long as it is in the right deck. That means:
- Bounce. If you can bounce one of your copies, you can create a lot additional value - Tempo: It is best in a deck that is fast-paced. Once you get against Control and loose tempo, you can now drop the Collector, gaining 8/8 stats and three legendaries. It is especially useful in a top-deck situation. - playing it as early as possible is the worst move you can make. You play Cabal quite early because you can decide what you pick, enabling yoou new strategies. Face Collector, though, does not generate similar value, since you have a higher chance to get something useless. I would hold on to it iuntil I can play it at least twice, or even later, to decide whetever I want more cards, or play my gained legendary.
That said, it is not a 1. I would probably mark it as 2 as well, with a 1-potential in the right deck.
Bounce: you dont pick bounce effects in rogue (cause they r all horrible cards on their own) except like brewmasters, so this argument is void.
Tempo: obviously this card is a horrible tempo play and is a decent value generator, but if you truly r goin for a tempo deck, this card will literally become a dead card for you, that is not great.
Playing it early might give you a play on later turn, so no, it is not the worst possible play you can make with it. Obviously it depends on many other factors, but you cant just say its the worst thing to do, cause it will vary depeinding on the situation.
Im not arguing that the card isnt good, it is. But the arguments you presented seem quite misguided for the purpose of showing how good the card is :)
I think that Face Collector is far better than you give it credit for - as long as it is in the right deck. That means:
- Bounce. If you can bounce one of your copies, you can create a lot additional value - Tempo: It is best in a deck that is fast-paced. Once you get against Control and loose tempo, you can now drop the Collector, gaining 8/8 stats and three legendaries. It is especially useful in a top-deck situation. - playing it as early as possible is the worst move you can make. You play Cabal quite early because you can decide what you pick, enabling yoou new strategies. Face Collector, though, does not generate similar value, since you have a higher chance to get something useless. I would hold on to it iuntil I can play it at least twice, or even later, to decide whetever I want more cards, or play my gained legendary.
That said, it is not a 1. I would probably mark it as 2 as well, with a 1-potential in the right deck.
Bounce: you dont pick bounce effects in rogue (cause they r all horrible cards on their own) except like brewmasters, so this argument is void.
Tempo: obviously this card is a horrible tempo play and is a decent value generator, but if you truly r goin for a tempo deck, this card will literally become a dead card for you, that is not great.
Playing it early might give you a play on later turn, so no, it is not the worst possible play you can make with it. Obviously it depends on many other factors, but you cant just say its the worst thing to do, cause it will vary depeinding on the situation.
Im not arguing that the card isnt good, it is. But the arguments you presented seem quite misguided for the purpose of showing how good the card is :)
1) True, I kind of forgot that both Shadowcaster as well as Gadgetzan Ferryman rotate out. Though, theoretically, the synergy with Sonya Shadowdancer would be insane - if you would ever get that combo :D Still, worth a consideration once you draft Face Collector. 2) I mean it not as a Tempo Play, it is demerital for any Tempo Deck - I mean it, similar as Renounce Darkness to be a kind of Value Generator when you notice that you loose control. I rather would have one backup card, which can singlehandely generate enough value to help you back to your feet. Getting 3 cards as well as 6/6 bodies for 9 mana is not terrible at all, even if your card is a freaky 5/5 for 8. The worst cases would be something like Baku or Cho. If you are in Top Deck, it still is either a body or a tech card, though, so not too shabby either in the long run. In a control-orientated shell (Though Rogue is more tempo/aggro then anything else, on that note I should have rather stated 'Aggro' instead of 'Tempo', my bad), it would be not that noteworthy in comparison (though still a really good value generator). 3) I mean, playing Renounce Darkness early on is a mistake as well - because you loose Tempo. Same will be true for this legendary, either you need to generate a lot Tempo beforehand, or you have no alternative. Otherwise I would wait until you begin to loose out in Tempo, to try to get it back through the generated value.
In that case, every legendary would be a 5, though (something like Temporus, King Togwaggle and Baku). In that case, a normal player would prefer going for the best statline, sure.
Otherwise, I do think that Azalina can be useful in specific situations, while both Baku and Genn are only understated bodies. If I compare it with the ratings of K&K:
Geosculptor Yip, Marin the Fox, Rin, the First Disciple got a 4 aswell, but all of them do have some uses. The Chest can actually impact quite heavily, Rin provides some free cards which are underwhelming in the beginning, but do get useful with time and Geosculptor can, with the right setup, be extremly rewarding. Baku though? Well... It has slightly better stats than Marin. To be honest, I would maybe consider Rhok'delar a better choice, even if only because it is a '7 mana 4 damage "charge"'.
I'm calling it, Echo cards are going to be the most powerful cards in the upcoming Witchwood arena meta. They just give you massive card advantage when no other types of card can. They can fill up your curve on multiple turns (think that's also what helps you build an odd/even cards only constructed deck), giving you the flexibility to react to the boardstate. Take Phantom militia as an exmaple, you can use it as a 2/4 taunt on turn 3, or sort of your own Spreading Plague on turn 9 onwards. Compare to card draws like Devour Mind, Echo cards are minions which they can be played immediately and you gain tempo right away. When your opponent sees you just drew 3 cards, they will try to end the game as soon as possible. But they can never expect an Echo card, generating huge value from one single card. Their value increases as the game progress and you would happily draft them no matter you have a aggro or control deck.
Glitter Moth
Rating 5(Terrible): Sadly, this will rarely be useful in an Arena game.Gloom Stag
Rating 4(Poor): At least it keeps Taunt, regardless of the odd-only card bonus, but I would still rather have a Druid of the Claw instead.Murkspark Eel
Rating 3(Average): Like the other odd/even cards, I don't expect to get the bonus from this card, but it's still just fine as a two-drop.Black Cat
Rating 3(Average): Don't expect to get the card draw bonus, but it's still absolutely fine as a 3/3 for three mana and the Spell Damage +1 isn't a bad addition.It was confirmed that the odd/even cards won't appear in Arena, so scratch that analysis!
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
Glitter Moth (4): 5 mana 4/4 beast, pretty horrible card, but iv seen worse.
Gloom Stag (3): one less stat compared to Fen Creeper in exchange for Beast tag, yeah pretty weak taunt, but its playable.
Murkspark Eel (3): vanilla 2drop and its a beast, w/e.
Black Cat (3): spell damage minion is always nice to have and pain to leave on board, so this is ok, nothing amazing, but very ok.
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Militia Commander is a (1) VERY strong board control card, it's not good to just drop it, but when trying to remove an opponent minion it does a really good job, at that, I think it's underestimated here.
I hope they just retire the odd/even costed cards from arena, there's no meaning to drafting most of them.
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
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Too earlie too conclude anything, but looking forward to give my input - so far echo seem like something that will impact arena.
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
Big news! Mike Donais confirms that the 6 odd/even cards revealed so far will not be offered in Arena.
Source
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
Face Collector - 2 - Low tempo play, but insane value card. Legendaries can be horrible to game breaking and in a slower meta this is a nice value generator into a potential game winning swing.
Warpath - 1 - Warrior gets a real AOE. Finally! Insanely flexible for an early game removal, or a late game wipe. You pay for the flexibility in mana, but its ridiculously good considering Warrior has never been given a solid AOE since Brawl. This is good enough to go into constructed decks, and make Frothing Berserker a huge threat for one turn KO's.
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I finally got off my lazy butt, to share my over 4000 wins (which is worth something maybe...) arena opinions. And do agree or disagree with me, that's always the fun part.
Face Collector - 2.5 - This can be really good, though it can also backfire pretty bad. Getting a good and a meh legendary while getting two 2/2 bodies on the field on turn 6 is probably worth it.
Warpath - 1 - If this was in any other class I'd probably put this at 2 (since they already have other forms of AOE and it does hurt that it also damages your minions), but since this is warrior who got his first true AOE, I think it deserves a 1.
Even ignoring all of that, this card really is great, for the same reason Phantom Militia is, and that is flexibility. You can either use this as a small 1 or 2 damage weenie removal, or a big 5 damage clear. Oh and the cherry on top: this is a common.
Face Collector Rating 3(Average): It's a cool concept, that increases in value late game. You've got to keep in mind that drawing a Legendary doesn't guarantee you something good, just ask Lorewalker Cho.
Warpath Rating 1(Excellent): It's about time that Warrior got some decent removal! This is extremely flexible and shows a lot of promise. Since this is a Common it could end up being as frustrating as facing multiple Flamestrikes from Mages.
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
Face Collector (2): to be honest, i think this card will perform way better than we give it credit for, but it is just a horrible turn when you play it, i think the best thing you can do actually is to play it on T3, then it would be similar play to a Kabal Courier, not amazing, but it usually doesnt hurt that much. Playin two 2/2s or three 2/2s later on can ever be afforded only if you're winning, or if your're desperate AF. But like i said, even if you can get some crappy legendaries, i think this card will perform very well on average, most value generators do.
Warpath (1): very good versatile AOE, warrior can definitely use that. Nothing much to say about this card, super good.
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Right you are AbusingKel. Don't know why I was thinkin the collector returns to the hand after you play it... gonna bump him up a bit.
I think that Face Collector is far better than you give it credit for - as long as it is in the right deck. That means:
- Bounce. If you can bounce one of your copies, you can create a lot additional value
- Tempo: It is best in a deck that is fast-paced. Once you get against Control and loose tempo, you can now drop the Collector, gaining 8/8 stats and three legendaries. It is especially useful in a top-deck situation.
- playing it as early as possible is the worst move you can make. You play Cabal quite early because you can decide what you pick, enabling yoou new strategies. Face Collector, though, does not generate similar value, since you have a higher chance to get something useless. I would hold on to it iuntil I can play it at least twice, or even later, to decide whetever I want more cards, or play my gained legendary.
That said, it is not a 1. I would probably mark it as 2 as well, with a 1-potential in the right deck.
I understand the argument for Face Collector, and I agree you can generate some excellent value in the late-game, but I'm coming from the mindset that there are a LOT of crappy Legendary cards and you are not guaranteed any high-rolls. Yes, this can be an excellent card that saves the day, but you can also burn your entire turn 6 (as an example) to put 4/4 worth of stats on the board and possible garbage in your hand. I feel the baseline is average (even though card advantage is king). It can definitely increase in value under the right circumstances.
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
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2) I mean it not as a Tempo Play, it is demerital for any Tempo Deck - I mean it, similar as Renounce Darkness to be a kind of Value Generator when you notice that you loose control. I rather would have one backup card, which can singlehandely generate enough value to help you back to your feet. Getting 3 cards as well as 6/6 bodies for 9 mana is not terrible at all, even if your card is a freaky 5/5 for 8. The worst cases would be something like Baku or Cho. If you are in Top Deck, it still is either a body or a tech card, though, so not too shabby either in the long run. In a control-orientated shell (Though Rogue is more tempo/aggro then anything else, on that note I should have rather stated 'Aggro' instead of 'Tempo', my bad), it would be not that noteworthy in comparison (though still a really good value generator).
3) I mean, playing Renounce Darkness early on is a mistake as well - because you loose Tempo. Same will be true for this legendary, either you need to generate a lot Tempo beforehand, or you have no alternative. Otherwise I would wait until you begin to loose out in Tempo, to try to get it back through the generated value.