What’s funny about that is how Peter Whalen said before the previous expansion, that they wanna get away from infinite value cards ( like DKs) , and still they printed the 1 mana Rogue scheme...
I guess they will slowly print less anti fatigue cards.
Yes, Peter Whalen, it is in Blizzard's power to murder Dr. Boom. Why haven't you done it yet?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
What’s funny about that is how Peter Whalen said before the previous expansion, that they wanna get away from infinite value cards ( like DKs) , and still they printed the 1 mana Rogue scheme...
I guess they will slowly print less anti fatigue cards.
Yes, Peter Whalen, it is in Blizzard's power to murder Dr. Boom. Why haven't you done it yet?
When they said they want to move away from inifnite value cards, they meant they will stop printing them, they didn't say they will butcher the ones that already exist in Standard. And that 1 mana Rogue scheme is not Jade Idol.
Nothing wrong with infinite value options. If there is a strategic cost of including it. It is just when infinite value requires only one card added as an after thought it is a problem.
Im curious, what is so apealing for developers in this "infinite value" mechanics? Best hearthstone for me is just 30 cards game, you used it all, you lost.
You pretty much answered your question. They don't like the usual "i ran out of resources, time to concede".
You have to think through your deck to have a balance between early, mid and late game.
Ok, Hearthstone is not meant to be a complicated game. It's meant to be a casual game where you win or lose without the need to think too much. This is something the majority of people should really learn to accept.
"Wah wah wah, my opponent played like a complete idiot while I played like a god and I still lost, not fair!", yeah, deal with it, Hearthstone doesn't care about your 140 IQ.
"But why does Hearthstone have tournaments if it's casual?". The answer is simple: because there are people willing to play it competitively, because there are people willing to watch and because Blizzard gets something in return from organising these tournaments. Anything can be competitive nowadays, even flipping a coin.
Those "jade" decks are just imunne to those rules.
There are no rules in Hearthstone. Anything is possible.
Someone explain this to me or im simply done ith it.
Hope everything is clear for you. Feel free to quit if you're not happy with the game. Don't worry, Blizzard will continue to succeed with or without you.
Just came back here to say. Answers like that is what make this game even worse. Lots of losers sucking blizzard's balls about every shit they produce. People like you make me sick, are the classics sheeps that make this world worse to live each day.
Just because there's something you don't like doesn't mean it's bad for everyone else. You have different tastes, that's fine, we all have, but not accepting other's tastes is one of the reasons people will avoid having a serious relationship with you.
If you don't like Hearthstone, then stop playing it and if Blizzard asks why did you stop playing, politely tell them: "Because I'm not happy with the game. I want the game to be different than it is right now." And if they ask you how you want the game to be, tell them exactly the changes you want them to make. There's ABSOLUTELY no shame in it.
Have a beautiful day, I wish you the best life can offer and I hope you'll succeed in it more than in HS!
Here's the Irony. You say Infinite Resource Strategy is a Strategy that beats every other Strategy, and you decide to destroy your own point in the next segment of the sentence, by stating that OTK beats Infinite Strategies, and you also forget to mention that Aggro and Midrange also beat Infinite Strategies.
Remember last expansions when we had OTKstone? The reasons: lack of hand disruptions, powerful anti-aggro tools and Infinite value decks which could only be countered by OTK. Every other strategy was useless.
That's what might happen in the future expansions. Warrior has good anti-aggro tools and has access to some hand disruption, what do you think will happen if Blizzard will print more Dirty Rats? Control Warrior will become Tier S.
That's what I meant when I said that one strategy can be powerful enough to make other strategies useless.
I don't care for infinite strategy decks, the aggro always keep that in check and is good to have counters to slow control fatigue decks.
My problem is get infinite value with a single f...... card, like hunter DK, the warrior infinite a least need x2 hands to go infinite and both cards are useless until lategame.
I dont see any problem here. Even more, it is a must for a game to have these kind of cards/decks.
The parent of HS - paper MtG has it, and it is very good that we have to not only go face on curve.
Rich diversity is exellent.
I don't think that MTG has cards making cards (I played that last time around 5 years ago). I agree with the OP cards making extra cards are cancer of this game. Omega Assembly / dr. Boom / Mana Cyclone / Elysiana and much more shouln't exists. You should have 30 cards in deck and thats it. There can be RNG in the game (drawing will be random always), also random rolls on Knife Juggler and such things are OK. Discovering next removal when you need it is not fun.
As paper I think scissors is OP. And I refuse to play rock like a newb!
I lolled. Much lol.
First of all, can we use English words correctly? All of the mechanics you describe are "finite". That is the opposite of INFINITE. As opposed to something like Valeera'ed Lab Recruiter, which would, in fact, be infinite. Mechanics like Valeera and Lab Recruiter's interaction are why there is a turn limit. Mechanics like non-Valeera'ed Lab Recruiters and Archivist simply increase the FINITE limit of cards in the deck.
You're obviously free to have whatever opinion you like regarding extending the number of cards in deck above 30. You are not free to annex words into whatever meaning you desire.
By the way, since Pogo Rogue is a tier 3 deck at absolute best, I seriously doubt they will change the deck in any way. Archivist, on the other hand, was nerfed specifically to address the Baleful Banker and Youthful Brewmaster interactions. Not that any of these were INFINITE in the first place, but the powers that be realized that adding ten cards is an interesting anti-fatigue mechanic, but adding 30 might be a little abusive. For most people, that solved the issue.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I dont see any problem here. Even more, it is a must for a game to have these kind of cards/decks.
The parent of HS - paper MtG has it, and it is very good that we have to not only go face on curve.
Rich diversity is exellent.
I don't think that MTG has cards making cards (I played that last time around 5 years ago). I agree with the OP cards making extra cards are cancer of this game. Omega Assembly / dr. Boom / Mana Cyclone / Elysiana and much more shouln't exists. You should have 30 cards in deck and thats it. There can be RNG in the game (drawing will be random always), also random rolls on Knife Juggler and such things are OK. Discovering next removal when you need it is not fun.
HS has developed many of these types of cards at this stage of the game, to the point that you'd have to essentially overhaul/delete a dozen, or more, cards. That isn't going to happen. If the complaint is that these kinds of cards shouldn't exist then I think for these types of players they should move on to a game that they prefer more. The mechanic may dip or rise in design popularity, and receive nerfs from time to time, but it has been introduced to the game and isn't going anywhere. You'd have to feel quite optimistic to hope to craft any realistic argument debating otherwise.
I hate that decks are so unpredictable and weird to the point that a 2 or 3 mana card can win you the game because it discovered the best solution to his/her problem out of nowhere. Can we have 30 vs 30 card games?
It has become stupid, I once lost a game on turn 12 where the opponent mage had played 13 cards that didnt start in his deck.
Or even a not so problematic but still stupid, where in arena you play a Messenger Raven, discover a Kalecgos and insta win because of that.
Im curious, what is so apealing for developers in this "infinite value" mechanics? Best hearthstone for me is just 30 cards game, you used it all, you lost.
You pretty much answered your question. They don't like the usual "i ran out of resources, time to concede".
You have to think through your deck to have a balance between early, mid and late game.
Ok, Hearthstone is not meant to be a complicated game. It's meant to be a casual game where you win or lose without the need to think too much. This is something the majority of people should really learn to accept.
"Wah wah wah, my opponent played like a complete idiot while I played like a god and I still lost, not fair!", yeah, deal with it, Hearthstone doesn't care about your 140 IQ.
"But why does Hearthstone have tournaments if it's casual?". The answer is simple: because there are people willing to play it competitively, because there are people willing to watch and because Blizzard gets something in return from organising these tournaments. Anything can be competitive nowadays, even flipping a coin.
Those "jade" decks are just imunne to those rules.
There are no rules in Hearthstone. Anything is possible.
Someone explain this to me or im simply done ith it.
Hope everything is clear for you. Feel free to quit if you're not happy with the game. Don't worry, Blizzard will continue to succeed with or without you.
Just came back here to say. Answers like that is what make this game even worse. Lots of losers sucking blizzard's balls about every shit they produce. People like you make me sick, are the classics sheeps that make this world worse to live each day.
Just came back here to say. Answers like that is what make this game even worse. Lots of losers sucking his own cock about every shit they produce. People like you make me sick, are the classics egomaniacs that make this world worse to live each day.
Hello. Please, explain to me why in every single fckn expansion, theres some deck thats just goes "infinite". It started mainly with a DKs, Dr Boom, Rexxar, cubelock, jades and finally, when i was thinking it will be finally over, theres Elysiana and now Pogo.
...
Nope. Headcrack is in the Classic set. Not a good card, but it does provide "infinite value". Before all the things you mention, there was Malorne, Anub'arak, and Tentacles for Arms.
Now, none of these cards were "mega-defining"; in fact, they were barely even played. But the "infinite value" mechanic has always been part of the game. And always will be.
Hello. Please, explain to me why in every single fckn expansion, theres some deck thats just goes "infinite". It started mainly with a DKs, Dr Boom, Rexxar, cubelock, jades and finally, when i was thinking it will be finally over, theres Elysiana and now Pogo.
...
Nope. Headcrack is in the Classic set. Not a good card, but it does provide "infinite value". Before all the things you mention, there was Malorne, Anub'arak, and Tentacles for Arms.
Now, none of these cards were "mega-defining"; in fact, they were barely even played. But the "infinite value" mechanic has always been part of the game. And always will be.
Accept it and move on.
Headcrack is not infinite. It requires Combo activation to be returned to your hand and is therefore limited by the number of other cards in your deck.
The other cards you mentioned can be infinite, but:
Tentacles for Arms and Malorne have very steep recurring costs, whereas Dr. Boom, Mad Genius does not. You do have to pay for the mechs he generates, but the mana costs for those are normal, and the hero actually adds value to them by giving them Rush. Also, 3 1/1 minions for 2 mana is beyond ridiculous, as is 7 Armor.
So, like many arguments and complaints, this is not a binary yes/no problem. It's a matter of degree and context. Dr. Boom provides powerful infinite value at a very low cost, in terms of both mana and strategic trade-off. Your examples are nowhere near this level of broken, which is ehy they never saw much play.
I think the takeaway here is that infinite value cards need to be unplayably bad. If they are actually playable, they will tend to become oppressive most of the time.
Hello. Please, explain to me why in every single fckn expansion, theres some deck thats just goes "infinite". It started mainly with a DKs, Dr Boom, Rexxar, cubelock, jades and finally, when i was thinking it will be finally over, theres Elysiana and now Pogo.
...
Nope. Headcrack is in the Classic set. Not a good card, but it does provide "infinite value". Before all the things you mention, there was Malorne, Anub'arak, and Tentacles for Arms.
Now, none of these cards were "mega-defining"; in fact, they were barely even played. But the "infinite value" mechanic has always been part of the game. And always will be.
Accept it and move on.
Headcrack is not infinite. It requires Combo activation to be returned to your hand and is therefore limited by the number of other cards in your deck.
The other cards you mentioned can be infinite, but:
Tentacles for Arms and Malorne have very steep recurring costs, whereas Dr. Boom, Mad Genius does not. You do have to pay for the mechs he generates, but the mana costs for those are normal, and the hero actually adds value to them by giving them Rush. Also, 3 1/1 minions for 2 mana is beyond ridiculous, as is 7 Armor.
So, like many arguments and complaints, this is not a binary yes/no problem. It's a matter of degree and context. Dr. Boom provides powerful infinite value at a very low cost, in terms of both mana and strategic trade-off. Your examples are nowhere near this level of broken, which is ehy they never saw much play.
I think the takeaway here is that infinite value cards need to be unplayably bad. If they are actually playable, they will tend to become oppressive most of the time.
Right. The cards I mentioned weren't broken enough to see play. So Team Five made some better ones, which are broken enough to see play.
We don't play with "fair" cards. Only the most broken cards will be used in competitive decks. Not all cards are equal.
Now you can cry yourself to death about this, but the mechanic exists, and I for one am very glad it does. I like variety in the game. I like that there are aggro decks, combo decks, control decks, and yes, even "infinite value" decks.
I take you can't understand any of this, but can you accept it?
Yes, Peter Whalen, it is in Blizzard's power to murder Dr. Boom. Why haven't you done it yet?
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
When they said they want to move away from inifnite value cards, they meant they will stop printing them, they didn't say they will butcher the ones that already exist in Standard. And that 1 mana Rogue scheme is not Jade Idol.
Nothing wrong with infinite value options. If there is a strategic cost of including it. It is just when infinite value requires only one card added as an after thought it is a problem.
Just because there's something you don't like doesn't mean it's bad for everyone else. You have different tastes, that's fine, we all have, but not accepting other's tastes is one of the reasons people will avoid having a serious relationship with you.
If you don't like Hearthstone, then stop playing it and if Blizzard asks why did you stop playing, politely tell them: "Because I'm not happy with the game. I want the game to be different than it is right now." And if they ask you how you want the game to be, tell them exactly the changes you want them to make. There's ABSOLUTELY no shame in it.
Have a beautiful day, I wish you the best life can offer and I hope you'll succeed in it more than in HS!
one suggestion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Put actual win conditions on your deck<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Remember last expansions when we had OTKstone? The reasons: lack of hand disruptions, powerful anti-aggro tools and Infinite value decks which could only be countered by OTK. Every other strategy was useless.
That's what might happen in the future expansions. Warrior has good anti-aggro tools and has access to some hand disruption, what do you think will happen if Blizzard will print more Dirty Rats? Control Warrior will become Tier S.
That's what I meant when I said that one strategy can be powerful enough to make other strategies useless.
Not everyone is a standard control main. Believe it or not some people simply like different things.
Plus, not every class is designed to be able to be a 30 card control deck (ie paladin, rogue, druid).
I don't care for infinite strategy decks, the aggro always keep that in check and is good to have counters to slow control fatigue decks.
My problem is get infinite value with a single f...... card, like hunter DK, the warrior infinite a least need x2 hands to go infinite and both cards are useless until lategame.
I don't think that MTG has cards making cards (I played that last time around 5 years ago). I agree with the OP cards making extra cards are cancer of this game. Omega Assembly / dr. Boom / Mana Cyclone / Elysiana and much more shouln't exists. You should have 30 cards in deck and thats it. There can be RNG in the game (drawing will be random always), also random rolls on Knife Juggler and such things are OK. Discovering next removal when you need it is not fun.
Pogo. Is like tier 4 deck and crying about it lol
I lolled. Much lol.
First of all, can we use English words correctly? All of the mechanics you describe are "finite". That is the opposite of INFINITE. As opposed to something like Valeera'ed Lab Recruiter, which would, in fact, be infinite. Mechanics like Valeera and Lab Recruiter's interaction are why there is a turn limit. Mechanics like non-Valeera'ed Lab Recruiters and Archivist simply increase the FINITE limit of cards in the deck.
You're obviously free to have whatever opinion you like regarding extending the number of cards in deck above 30. You are not free to annex words into whatever meaning you desire.
By the way, since Pogo Rogue is a tier 3 deck at absolute best, I seriously doubt they will change the deck in any way. Archivist, on the other hand, was nerfed specifically to address the Baleful Banker and Youthful Brewmaster interactions. Not that any of these were INFINITE in the first place, but the powers that be realized that adding ten cards is an interesting anti-fatigue mechanic, but adding 30 might be a little abusive. For most people, that solved the issue.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
HS has developed many of these types of cards at this stage of the game, to the point that you'd have to essentially overhaul/delete a dozen, or more, cards. That isn't going to happen. If the complaint is that these kinds of cards shouldn't exist then I think for these types of players they should move on to a game that they prefer more. The mechanic may dip or rise in design popularity, and receive nerfs from time to time, but it has been introduced to the game and isn't going anywhere. You'd have to feel quite optimistic to hope to craft any realistic argument debating otherwise.
Totally agree.
I hate that decks are so unpredictable and weird to the point that a 2 or 3 mana card can win you the game because it discovered the best solution to his/her problem out of nowhere. Can we have 30 vs 30 card games?
It has become stupid, I once lost a game on turn 12 where the opponent mage had played 13 cards that didnt start in his deck.
Or even a not so problematic but still stupid, where in arena you play a Messenger Raven, discover a Kalecgos and insta win because of that.
I agree with everything, except the very last thing.
you are one arrogant pos.
Peace!
Just came back here to say. Answers like that is what make this game even worse. Lots of losers sucking his own cock about every shit they produce. People like you make me sick, are the classics egomaniacs that make this world worse to live each day.
My first created Hearthstone cards:
Nope. Headcrack is in the Classic set. Not a good card, but it does provide "infinite value". Before all the things you mention, there was Malorne, Anub'arak, and Tentacles for Arms.
Now, none of these cards were "mega-defining"; in fact, they were barely even played. But the "infinite value" mechanic has always been part of the game. And always will be.
Accept it and move on.
Elysiana is not a fun card. But I'm cool with these things you mention if they make the end game more fun than losing to fatigue.
Headcrack is not infinite. It requires Combo activation to be returned to your hand and is therefore limited by the number of other cards in your deck.
The other cards you mentioned can be infinite, but:
So, like many arguments and complaints, this is not a binary yes/no problem. It's a matter of degree and context. Dr. Boom provides powerful infinite value at a very low cost, in terms of both mana and strategic trade-off. Your examples are nowhere near this level of broken, which is ehy they never saw much play.
I think the takeaway here is that infinite value cards need to be unplayably bad. If they are actually playable, they will tend to become oppressive most of the time.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Right. The cards I mentioned weren't broken enough to see play. So Team Five made some better ones, which are broken enough to see play.
We don't play with "fair" cards. Only the most broken cards will be used in competitive decks. Not all cards are equal.
Now you can cry yourself to death about this, but the mechanic exists, and I for one am very glad it does. I like variety in the game. I like that there are aggro decks, combo decks, control decks, and yes, even "infinite value" decks.
I take you can't understand any of this, but can you accept it?
big fucking whoopdy floop! cry me a river.