If anything, this topic kinda proves that many people who play video games do not understand the existence of non-zero sum games. The amount of people who see others gaining something, at no cost to them, as a loss is depressing. Not because Hearthstone matters overmuch, but because you know they carry that zero sum attitude to other concepts.
Not very surprising, as shown e.g. in the ultimatum game. This seems to be more about 'fairness' rather than logic, but personally I agree with you. I also spent a lot of money and time in HS and wouldn't mind at all if they handed out the classic set for free to all players.
That is demonstrably false. A quick google search determined that accounts similar to mine has prices around of 500€ or even more than that, which I'm almost positive is more than zero. I'm not going to sell it, but the value is certainly real.
Not wanting to see that price reduced to zero seems like a reasonable argument for being against the suggestion in the OP.
There are plenty of actions you can do with your property which is not allowed, which generates value for you. That does not mean it is a valid argument nor an argument a governing body should care for when adjusting its policies.
The difference between us long time players and new players is that we have been able pay for our goods over long time and split our cost. New players don't have that luxury and have to pay everything up front. Obviously that creates an artificial barrier to the game that we never had. And that is without even accounting for the fact that when we started there was only one set.
It is similar to how people who bought houses in the 60-70s got them very cheap compares to their salary, but now the housing prices compared to income is way higher. Now imagen not being able to pay those houses with a loan, but have to pay almost all upfront. It creates a barrier which should not be there for new consumers and makes everything stale.
But you're not arguing with blizzard, you're arguing with players who can choose to ignore the ToS and sell their account.
People can also sell their kidney illegally in Egypt and have the money to be trafficked to Europe. That does not however mean that we should pay attention to the monetary value of your kidney on the blackmarket when we are able to 3D-print organs.
No because my time would be wasted for nothing , I don’t think that blizzard wouldn‘t consider this from their standing point either :).Me and many other players earned their classic set over the time now some bumpkin who recently joined the game wishes to get everything instantly? The only thing they should change are the rewards, make a monthly reward with a better pay out
I myself have around 90% of the collection of old and new cards and did spend a lot of money into this game and i would say yes to older expansions but not classic. The idea is that you are able to play with wild cards and the wild format would get a bit more attention. Unfortunatly this will never happen even if blizzard would want to do this. The amount of complaints there would be and refunds that are going to be demanded will be huge. So i do support some of your ideas but you can still forgett it. The only way this would be possible if everyone gets the whole wild set in addition if you have the cards already. But that would make problems for blizzard.
But you're not arguing with blizzard, you're arguing with players who can choose to ignore the ToS and sell their account.
People can also sell their kidney illegally in Egypt and have the money to be trafficked to Europe. That does not however mean that we should pay attention to the monetary value of your kidney on the blackmarket when we are able to 3D-print organs.
Look, I didn't comment to discuss the morality of violating terms of service, or to get sucked in to some game of ridiculous comparisons.
Someone asked why any player would be opposed to making old cards free, and losing a potential selling value is a valid reason for that. End of discussion.
A much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much better idea would be to offer newbies the full set of Classic cards for a fixed price, maybe $150 or so.
It needs to be slightly cheaper than if you were to try to collect them by opening packs, but not so cheap that it's a slap in the face to those of use who already spent time and money getting the full set.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
As someone that always buys all the cards since GvG I would love that.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people wouldn't like it because of their "investment" of time and/or money. But as someone else has pointed out: It's just the extreme case of you buying a game one day before it gets discounted. I'd say: Never Lucky. But what do you want to do about that? To be fair it really is extreme since it's for free in this proposal not just discounted, but otherwise it's totally the same.
I personally would really like to see that just so I can have some more fun games. I think a lot of people would love to try out crazy fun decks, but they simply can't afford much of it so "they keep grinding". Which is terrible in my opinion.
I think the big thing here really is people's attitude and why they're playing the game. I would see a lot of value in giving out as much as possible for free to everyone if it's doable. Even from a more competitive standpoint it's... well at least weird. Do you love to stomp people with terrible decks because they don't have access to the right cards? Maybe. Maybe not?
I guess it really is mostly this "lost investment" thing. And that comes down to how you see this "investment". Contray to popular perception money is never really wasted (except you burn it or such) because the other person now holds this "value". The only difference is that it's not longer you (or your group) who holds this "value". I wouldn't see giving out everything for free as bad (as long as they can "afford it") since I don't see the other players as separate. After all I even need someone to play with. As I said: Would you really like to play against Basic decks all day long? Well, maybe I guess? A super tryhard that only cares to win... probably would like that... maybe? I really can't imagine it. I certainly wouldn't play it that way. Of course it isn't like that, but just to show how bizzare this way of playing the game feels to me.
Unfortunately it seems many are indeed more "competitive" and as such might not really give a fuck about their opponent. So giving out stuff for free when they payed for it probably feels for them like if they're running a 2 KM race with a couple of people and after 1 KM a dozen other people come in, completely fresh and unexhausted. It would understandably feel very unfair as a "competition". Since I don't give a fuck about winning though I wouldn't mind and rather be happy for them. It really depends on how you look at it. Even though the game is very "competitively framed" it doesn't mean you can't have fun with something like a Shudderyogg mirror match for example. Now that I think about it...
To a certain degree we even have this. The "Borrow Deck" function when playing a friendly match. So maybe this discussion is more about "competitive" play. Well, I certainly don't give a fuck about that. I guess this function doesn't get used too often though or at least it doesn't effect their sales/profit too much. Which actually means... a whole lot of people more than I thought play it "competitively". This is... just sad. I mean it's potential 50% discount if we would do it right. You just need to find someone with a big enough or better complete collection. (Like me. Complete non-golden collection. Battletag to the left. Region: EU. Usual playtime: 2 - 6 AM CEST) But of course if you're playing with this "competitive" mindset this is probably next to useless to you. And I was so happy when they first showed that. I should've seen it coming. Such an amazing feature for free? Yeah, but almost nobody cares about it. #FeelsBadMan
I would rather add some sort of sandbox mode where all Cards are availible and free. This mode does not have to be permanent it could be in a tavern Brawl or something? I think it’s a good way for players to try new decks that they’re intersted in before they craft them and for new players to mess around with cards they doesn’t own!
I voted no for 2 reasons, and none of them are including envy or the feeling of devaluation of my collection.
When I start to play a new card game, the most important thing to me is to grow my collection. And I think its not good to have access to 10-15 archetypes without even working to get a single card, without even understanding the basics of the game. The grind is an important part of the game, if you have to work for your cards, you will understand the game better, when you lose, you understand better why did you lose instead of just being salty in this already quite toxic community.
Secondly, this would actually hurt the game's balance. Why? Lets say there is a new expansion, and Im interested in playing about 50-60% of the new cards. I buy like 200 packs, I dont even need a lot of luck especially with the legendary duplicate protection, so I get mostly everything I want, I craft the rest and I still have some dust remaining. So I craft some classic or older wild cards Im missing. Then we got all of the old/classic stuff for free. OK, no big deal. Next expansion comes. Now I think its ok if I buy just 100-150 packs because I couldnt use the extra dust anyways. So Blizzard loses money. What do they do to compensate? Its easy, they are making so powerful expansions to make the classic set irrelevant. Remember MSoG? Do you really think they wouldnt powercreep the hell outta the classic set if it was free?
So no, this is a bad idea. It would give us more toxic players and it would destroy the balance and eventually made the classic set unplayable.
It's depressing to see how many people vote "No" when there hardly is a rational reason to do so. Unless you literally plan to sell your account - which is against the HS TOS - there is no downside to it at all; people just seem unable to not begrudge others for getting something for free.
Why do people vote no? (I am just curious, is it because you already bought it and finished it, and don't want any new players?
Because if all of the olds contents become free, I'll ask for a full refund. Hundred of euros. And I won't be the only one. This is nonsense.
Why? You wouldn't be losing anything.
We would lose our investment. We bought a product which later had its value strippen away and was handed out for free. Imagine buying 100 packs today and tmrw finding out that all of the cards were given out for free. Nice way of losing money, isn't it?
Lol this is a bad example. It's not tomorrow, it's more like 5 years from now. I think giving all classic cards for free should be something they look into for the future, if they want to bring in more new players that is. Come on, I paid for Starcraft 2 when it was released, and basically the game is free now ( minus the 2 extra campaigns) but I'm not bitching about it.
No because: it would leave blizzard with less money. And that's a bad thing because if there will not be enough money coming from this game shareholders/financial responsible @ blizzard will demand changes/higher roi. In the end they will stop Hearthstone altogether.
My alternative would be: give a new player all the cards from a random classic deck recipe. They will receive some dust/some legendaries and a deck to start their learning into Hearthstone.
This will allow the new player experience to be better while keeping the game profitable from everybody that want a quicker/more filled collection.
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And what will brawls reward? Card backs? That would kill a massive part of the enjoyment for me.
Giving everyone everything from classic would probably make the game very stale, very fast.
Not very surprising, as shown e.g. in the ultimatum game. This seems to be more about 'fairness' rather than logic, but personally I agree with you. I also spent a lot of money and time in HS and wouldn't mind at all if they handed out the classic set for free to all players.
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I don't think that ppl who spent several thousands dollards on HS (like me) would be anyhow glad that their boughts are now free for all.
People can also sell their kidney illegally in Egypt and have the money to be trafficked to Europe. That does not however mean that we should pay attention to the monetary value of your kidney on the blackmarket when we are able to 3D-print organs.
No because my time would be wasted for nothing , I don’t think that blizzard wouldn‘t consider this from their standing point either :).Me and many other players earned their classic set over the time now some bumpkin who recently joined the game wishes to get everything instantly? The only thing they should change are the rewards, make a monthly reward with a better pay out
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I myself have around 90% of the collection of old and new cards and did spend a lot of money into this game and i would say yes to older expansions but not classic. The idea is that you are able to play with wild cards and the wild format would get a bit more attention. Unfortunatly this will never happen even if blizzard would want to do this. The amount of complaints there would be and refunds that are going to be demanded will be huge. So i do support some of your ideas but you can still forgett it. The only way this would be possible if everyone gets the whole wild set in addition if you have the cards already. But that would make problems for blizzard.
Look, I didn't comment to discuss the morality of violating terms of service, or to get sucked in to some game of ridiculous comparisons.
Someone asked why any player would be opposed to making old cards free, and losing a potential selling value is a valid reason for that. End of discussion.
ppl selling accounts of a dying game wtf
A much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much better idea would be to offer newbies the full set of Classic cards for a fixed price, maybe $150 or so.
It needs to be slightly cheaper than if you were to try to collect them by opening packs, but not so cheap that it's a slap in the face to those of use who already spent time and money getting the full set.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
As someone that always buys all the cards since GvG I would love that.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people wouldn't like it because of their "investment" of time and/or money. But as someone else has pointed out: It's just the extreme case of you buying a game one day before it gets discounted. I'd say: Never Lucky. But what do you want to do about that? To be fair it really is extreme since it's for free in this proposal not just discounted, but otherwise it's totally the same.
I personally would really like to see that just so I can have some more fun games. I think a lot of people would love to try out crazy fun decks, but they simply can't afford much of it so "they keep grinding". Which is terrible in my opinion.
I think the big thing here really is people's attitude and why they're playing the game. I would see a lot of value in giving out as much as possible for free to everyone if it's doable. Even from a more competitive standpoint it's... well at least weird. Do you love to stomp people with terrible decks because they don't have access to the right cards? Maybe. Maybe not?
I guess it really is mostly this "lost investment" thing. And that comes down to how you see this "investment". Contray to popular perception money is never really wasted (except you burn it or such) because the other person now holds this "value". The only difference is that it's not longer you (or your group) who holds this "value". I wouldn't see giving out everything for free as bad (as long as they can "afford it") since I don't see the other players as separate. After all I even need someone to play with. As I said: Would you really like to play against Basic decks all day long? Well, maybe I guess? A super tryhard that only cares to win... probably would like that... maybe? I really can't imagine it. I certainly wouldn't play it that way. Of course it isn't like that, but just to show how bizzare this way of playing the game feels to me.
Unfortunately it seems many are indeed more "competitive" and as such might not really give a fuck about their opponent. So giving out stuff for free when they payed for it probably feels for them like if they're running a 2 KM race with a couple of people and after 1 KM a dozen other people come in, completely fresh and unexhausted. It would understandably feel very unfair as a "competition". Since I don't give a fuck about winning though I wouldn't mind and rather be happy for them. It really depends on how you look at it. Even though the game is very "competitively framed" it doesn't mean you can't have fun with something like a Shudderyogg mirror match for example. Now that I think about it...
To a certain degree we even have this. The "Borrow Deck" function when playing a friendly match. So maybe this discussion is more about "competitive" play. Well, I certainly don't give a fuck about that. I guess this function doesn't get used too often though or at least it doesn't effect their sales/profit too much. Which actually means... a whole lot of people more than I thought play it "competitively". This is... just sad. I mean it's potential 50% discount if we would do it right. You just need to find someone with a big enough or better complete collection. (Like me. Complete non-golden collection. Battletag to the left. Region: EU. Usual playtime: 2 - 6 AM CEST) But of course if you're playing with this "competitive" mindset this is probably next to useless to you. And I was so happy when they first showed that. I should've seen it coming. Such an amazing feature for free? Yeah, but almost nobody cares about it. #FeelsBadMan
Kirby's Dreamland
Been saying this for ages. The classic set should be free.
This game is awful for new players in it's current state. I would not recommend it to anyone.
Yeah it sucks for those who spent a lot of time any money trying to collect it but shit happens. Games evolve.
I would rather add some sort of sandbox mode where all Cards are availible and free. This mode does not have to be permanent it could be in a tavern Brawl or something? I think it’s a good way for players to try new decks that they’re intersted in before they craft them and for new players to mess around with cards they doesn’t own!
It shouldn't.
Yes, it sucks for those who are new but shit happens.
If the Classic set becomes free, then the Classic set should not be part of Standard.
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I voted no for 2 reasons, and none of them are including envy or the feeling of devaluation of my collection.
When I start to play a new card game, the most important thing to me is to grow my collection. And I think its not good to have access to 10-15 archetypes without even working to get a single card, without even understanding the basics of the game. The grind is an important part of the game, if you have to work for your cards, you will understand the game better, when you lose, you understand better why did you lose instead of just being salty in this already quite toxic community.
Secondly, this would actually hurt the game's balance. Why? Lets say there is a new expansion, and Im interested in playing about 50-60% of the new cards. I buy like 200 packs, I dont even need a lot of luck especially with the legendary duplicate protection, so I get mostly everything I want, I craft the rest and I still have some dust remaining. So I craft some classic or older wild cards Im missing. Then we got all of the old/classic stuff for free. OK, no big deal. Next expansion comes. Now I think its ok if I buy just 100-150 packs because I couldnt use the extra dust anyways. So Blizzard loses money. What do they do to compensate? Its easy, they are making so powerful expansions to make the classic set irrelevant. Remember MSoG? Do you really think they wouldnt powercreep the hell outta the classic set if it was free?
So no, this is a bad idea. It would give us more toxic players and it would destroy the balance and eventually made the classic set unplayable.
It's depressing to see how many people vote "No" when there hardly is a rational reason to do so. Unless you literally plan to sell your account - which is against the HS TOS - there is no downside to it at all; people just seem unable to not begrudge others for getting something for free.
Dab
Lol this is a bad example. It's not tomorrow, it's more like 5 years from now. I think giving all classic cards for free should be something they look into for the future, if they want to bring in more new players that is. Come on, I paid for Starcraft 2 when it was released, and basically the game is free now ( minus the 2 extra campaigns) but I'm not bitching about it.
Hi my dood.
I voted no but feel there is an alternative.
No because: it would leave blizzard with less money. And that's a bad thing because if there will not be enough money coming from this game shareholders/financial responsible @ blizzard will demand changes/higher roi. In the end they will stop Hearthstone altogether.
My alternative would be: give a new player all the cards from a random classic deck recipe. They will receive some dust/some legendaries and a deck to start their learning into Hearthstone.
This will allow the new player experience to be better while keeping the game profitable from everybody that want a quicker/more filled collection.