Here we are folks, a week and one day since the release of the Witchwood expansion, and my ladder experience over the last few days has been cubelock city. Deck diversity is usually a lot higher at this point in a new expansion, but where I am at rank 2-3 it seems that if you wanna win, you better be playing cubelock. I love the new expansion and all the new cards it brought, rush minions feel great to have a back and forth contest for the board, the even/odd archetypes are great as deck building restrictions. I don't mind spiteful priest, spiteful druid, taunt druid, baku paladin, even paladin, taunt warrior, vex crow mage, face hunter, shudderwock shaman, or any of the new decks in the meta, but cubelock feels like a overly efficient deck that kills aggro and combos control.
Potential ideas for nerfs on the core cards of the deck: (pick one)
Dark Pact: Change the text to read, "Destroy a friendly demon. Restore 8 health to your hero." Now they can no longer hit lackey or cube so early and so efficiently.
Really hoping the big man Brode comes down hard with the nerf hammer on cubelock in the coming weeks. Remember lads, this is just my opinion on the matter, maybe I'm wrong and good counters to cubelock will settle into the meta soon, just wanted to put out my 2 cents on the matter.
edit: Some people thought I wanted to nerf all the cards (which seems crazy and I didn't think I needed to specify), but I just want some piece of the deck changed, as in use one of my nerf ideas.
I don't feel the same way, I have this deck and I don't play with cubelock because I think it's boring, but the biggest problem playing against cubelock was the end game when warlock play Nzoth, and Nzoth has gone to wild, so now, for me, the thing that is bothering me is the aggro paladin decks, it's a braindead situation, because you just don't need to think to choose the cards.. anw, even shudder decks are ok.
You don't need to nerf ALL the cubelock cards to remove cubelock. the biggest issue lies in doomguard, make him gain charge through battlecry and suddenly cubelock loses it's biggest threat.
And if cubelock needs to go then so does aggro paladin and spiteful summoner, cubelock isn't the only deck that has been on top for a whole expansion.
control warlock shouldn't suffer as a result of another deck of the same class being op. come on man think.
If you play almost exclusively versus one archetype it shouldn't be too hard to counter it.
RNG is RNG but if someone has bad luck (ME?) then anytime when I include tech card or switch deck which has good WR against certail class which annoys me - suddenly ladder is out of this class for me ... conspiracy theory since beginning of HS, but maybe something is there on servers? :)
And if cubelock needs to go then so does aggro paladin and spiteful summoner, cubelock isn't the only deck that has been on top for a whole expansion.
IMO Warlock is most hated because you lose after long, disgusting game with big taunts T6 and insane ammount of healing where you've done like 50-60 dmg and still lost against T10 massive resurrected taut wall/charge lethal damage.
Against paladin it's mostly fast lose - you forget about it and queue next game.
I would appreciate if players will be allowed to ban a class from their ladder matches, same as tournaments. Just add this feature from rank 25 to rank 1 and Legend normal without ban. It would be more fun and less frustrating!
Sometimes I just want to do fast games without endless taunts, this annoy me so much
I am SO SALTY over this stupid deck. Cubelock is EVERYTHING degenerate about hearthstone rapped up in 1 deck. I for one wouldn't mind if Doomguard as a card disappeared into the ether forever never to be heard from again. The ability to cheat minions out of your deck is so stupid. Aggro Pally is exactly the same way though (ie. Call to Arms).
For me Cubelock can't leave soon enough. It's probably just as bad as Jade Druid was when it got hit.
I LOVE the OP's opinion on Dark Pact though. Just change it to ONLY be able to target demons and I think the entire deck will be fine.
yeah i dont get it, with cubelock you have sometimes really bad matchups. spiteful druid is really hard matchup if you dont have vodol doll on turn 6 or they have prince 2 on 2.
also paladin can snowball really hard even after you used your hard removals and board clears
Here we are folks, a week and one day since the release of the Witchwood expansion, and my ladder experience over the last few days has been cubelock city. Deck diversity is usually a lot higher at this point in a new expansion, but where I am at rank 2-3 it seems that if you wanna win, you better be playing cubelock. I love the new expansion and all the new cards it brought, rush minions feel great to have a back and forth contest for the board, the even/odd archetypes are great as deck building restrictions. I don't mind spiteful priest, spiteful druid, taunt druid, baku paladin, even paladin, taunt warrior, vex crow mage, face hunter, shudderwock shaman, or any of the new decks in the meta, but cubelock feels like a overly efficient deck that kills aggro and combos control.
Potential ideas for nerfs on the core cards of the deck:
Dark Pact: Change the text to read, "Destroy a friendly demon. Restore 8 health to your hero." Now they can no longer hit lackey or cube so early and so efficiently.
Really hoping the big man Brode comes down hard with the nerf hammer on cubelock in the coming weeks. Remember lads, this is just my opinion on the matter, maybe I'm wrong and good counters to cubelock will settle into the meta soon, just wanted to put out my 2 cents on the matter.
Paladin is more problematic than cubelock, and if they nerf dark pact or lakely, they kill control lock too, which is not fair. stop crying learn, to play
Dear ten-year-old, with these nerfs control warlock will be killed on the whole, thus destroying almost the whole class. The fact that you are incapable of beating a deck that is not even played because everyone is bored of it is just sad. Many others have complained about this deck even though it can be countered by all heavy aggro decks so this post is just gonna go unnoticed. Stop wasting your and our time with this meaningless post.
Dear pretentious poster: I didn't specify that I wanted only one of my proposed nerfs considered so I can't knock you for misunderstanding that, but to your point on "can be countered by all heavy aggro" I'd say the deck is the counter to heavy aggro when it runs 2x Defile, 2x Doomsayer, 2x Hellfire, and can summon a 3/9 taunt with deathrattle summon 3 more taunts on turn 5/6. I'm also not sure what you mean by "a deck that is not even played" because at the ranks 1-5 or legend its a pretty common sight.
I'd suggest you stop wasting your time negatively replying to posts you consider beneath you and spend more time being constructive in your responses if you feel so confident in your position.
I hope my edit clarifies my position, I don't want to destroy the archetype just make it seem a little more fair.
What is unfair about the deck? It's not even Tier1 and has quite a lot of counterdecks
Can you name a counterdeck (WR > 55%) which doesn't suck (WR < 50%) against any other class? Warlock unfortunately needs some nerf (but it could be only tiny one). It's OK if a deck is strong, it's not OK if a deck is strong against mostly anything. Insanely powerful, versatile decks with huge amount of heal, removals, taunt, charge OTK and even big comeback T10 are disgusting.
VS Pala around turn 7-8 you know that there is a big chance to win, and you also know what to do (kill dudes). With warlock you never know, and after 15-20m you lose ...
Cubelock is not broken. There are stronger decks out there and it has counters (Spiteful Druid/Priest, Odd Hunter, Dudadin, Quest/Odd Rogue, Tempo Mage). You are either unwilling to counter another deck (which then is basically your problem, because that is how a competetive game works) or you suck so hard at the game that you still loose with a counterdeck (which sucks for you, but the best way would be to just keep playing to learn the matchup).
Why is everyone so hostile? You can present you position without being condescending. I would disagree with you that cubelock has that many counters, I will admit spiteful priest/druid have a decent match-up but I definitely don't want the meta to become spiteful decks vs. cubelock. Part of my complaint is that I feel incredibly restricted in my deck building to the point where anything I can make has to consider cubelock as 50% of my opponents, which said deck might not be great against anything else I face.
I hope my edit clarifies my position, I don't want to destroy the archetype just make it seem a little more fair.
What is unfair about the deck? It's not even Tier1 and has quite a lot of counterdecks
Can you name a counterdeck (WR > 55%) which doesn't suck (WR < 50%) against any other class? Warlock unfortunately needs some nerf (but it could be only tiny one). It's OK if a deck is strong, it's not OK if a deck is strong against mostly anything. Insanely powerful, versatile decks with huge amount of heal, removals, taunt, charge OTK and even big comeback T10 are disgusting.
VS Pala around turn 7-8 you know that there is a big chance to win, and you also know what to do (kill dudes). With warlock you never know, and after 15-20m you lose ...
Thank you for understanding what I mean, that's exactly how I feel about the deck. It's simply not fun to play against a deck that has virtually no bad match-ups.
Cubelock can: -clear boards early against aggro -pressure against control with doomguards/mountain giants -combo or even OTK against control -clear massive boards with tempo with Lord Godfrey -heal for 25+
Deelanders, you're a wonderful person with a lot of potential. Don't waste your time with proposed changes. Blizzard has shown us in the past that they don't like nerfing cards. They prefer to give tools to players to counter the problematic decks. That way,everyone is happy: the ones that abuse the broken decks are happy because they get to keep playing it, the other ones who play against those decks are happy because they got the tools needed to counter and Blizzard is happy because they earn money from creating all these tech cards.
Yes, these tech cards are so reliant that if you don't have them at the right turn, you pretty much lose the game. But hey, at least we got them,right? Also, don't blame Blizzard because we, the players have shown them in the past that we are willing to play the game no matter how the meta is. (huntrtaker meta, shaman meta, secret pala meta and the list goes on)
So yeah Deelanders, as you can see, it's not worth the effort. If you want to change something, start with yourself.
I agree that a lot of people are playing Cubelock, but here are my two cents: Cubelock does NOT need, require or deserve a nerf at all. Warlock was given some very fair and somewhat underpowered cards in Frozen Throne and K&C; remember how everybody mocked Skull of the Man'ari and Possessed Lackey when they came out? even Voidlord got sketchy looks. As a matter of fact, Warlock has probably been given the fairest cards in the whole game. By themselves, Warlock's cards are barely playable. However, it's the synergy within them that makes the class so good right now. It's not because of one or two cards, it's that all of the weaker cards happen to synergise with each other to make a greater output. It's the same way in Rogue, too: Preparation is, on its own, a pretty weak card. But put together with a bunch of other spells and Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Edwin VanCleef, suddenly it's a key component.
My point is that Blizzard created no forced synergy with the Warlock cards like in other classes (*cough* *cough* Shaman), they were all very balanced and in most cases, underpowered, but when put together in the right deck, it becomes very powerful. Isn't that key in card games? You give classes very balanced cards, you don't force players to play an exact deck (*cough* *cough* Shaman *cough* Quest cards), but they work together harmoniously anyways. Do you want Blizzard to try and push for Jade Mage and Control Hunter like they did with Freeze Shaman? No. My point here is that Cubelock is probably the most well-designed thing in this game since the League of Explorers PvE.
Yes, it's powerful. Yes, some cards in it are broken. Yes, the combos can be ridiculous. But that's what makes it a good deck. Moderately powerful cards, they can be played in most decks, but excel when you have synergy. In fact, that's the same strategy with Hunter and Warrior in The Witchwood. While they gave Hunter some Control-esque cards, they didn't go all in on the concept. Meanwhile, Warrior received cards that compliment the Rush archetype AND the Control archetype (See: Baku Quest Warrior). Isn't that how you design a game? I'd rather have this than forced synergy and no player creativity or initiative to play any other deck. It's the variance that's what sets apart Hearthstone from other card games.
P.s. How are you finding 50% of your matches being against Cubelock? I'm at rank 3-5 and all I see is 30% Aggro Pally, 30% Baku Quest Warrior, 10% Spiteful, 10% Taunt/Hand Druid, 10% Rogue and 10% people who don't know what they're doing (I just played against a Quest/Archmage Arugal/Elemental/Big Mage. I shit you not).
Before you get pissed at me, I would like to say that I don't play Cubelock. Yes, I did during K&C to climb, but after that, I mainly just play Hand Druid, Tempo/Burgle Rogue and Aggro Paladin.
Here we are folks, a week and one day since the release of the Witchwood expansion, and my ladder experience over the last few days has been cubelock city. Deck diversity is usually a lot higher at this point in a new expansion, but where I am at rank 2-3 it seems that if you wanna win, you better be playing cubelock. I love the new expansion and all the new cards it brought, rush minions feel great to have a back and forth contest for the board, the even/odd archetypes are great as deck building restrictions. I don't mind spiteful priest, spiteful druid, taunt druid, baku paladin, even paladin, taunt warrior, vex crow mage, face hunter, shudderwock shaman, or any of the new decks in the meta, but cubelock feels like a overly efficient deck that kills aggro and combos control.
Potential ideas for nerfs on the core cards of the deck: (pick one)
Possessed Lackey: make this f**kboi 6 mana or something, slow down the combo that is Dark Pact -> Voidlord.
Doomguard: Make him a rush minion, this would kill the effectiveness of the Bloodreaver Gul'dan combo.
Dark Pact: Change the text to read, "Destroy a friendly demon. Restore 8 health to your hero." Now they can no longer hit lackey or cube so early and so efficiently.
Really hoping the big man Brode comes down hard with the nerf hammer on cubelock in the coming weeks. Remember lads, this is just my opinion on the matter, maybe I'm wrong and good counters to cubelock will settle into the meta soon, just wanted to put out my 2 cents on the matter.
edit: Some people thought I wanted to nerf all the cards (which seems crazy and I didn't think I needed to specify), but I just want some piece of the deck changed, as in use one of my nerf ideas.
I don't feel the same way, I have this deck and I don't play with cubelock because I think it's boring, but the biggest problem playing against cubelock was the end game when warlock play Nzoth, and Nzoth has gone to wild, so now, for me, the thing that is bothering me is the aggro paladin decks, it's a braindead situation, because you just don't need to think to choose the cards.. anw, even shudder decks are ok.
Oh look it's THAT topic again.
For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
Here is a thread to discuss Cubelock.
You don't need to nerf ALL the cubelock cards to remove cubelock. the biggest issue lies in doomguard, make him gain charge through battlecry and suddenly cubelock loses it's biggest threat.
And if cubelock needs to go then so does aggro paladin and spiteful summoner, cubelock isn't the only deck that has been on top for a whole expansion.
control warlock shouldn't suffer as a result of another deck of the same class being op. come on man think.
Why u hav to be mad? is only card gaem.
peaople need to realise that they cant nerf every single deck we dont like, but i would really love to see dark pact or lakey nerfed.
I would appreciate if players will be allowed to ban a class from their ladder matches, same as tournaments.
Just add this feature from rank 25 to rank 1 and Legend normal without ban.
It would be more fun and less frustrating!
Sometimes I just want to do fast games without endless taunts, this annoy me so much
I am SO SALTY over this stupid deck. Cubelock is EVERYTHING degenerate about hearthstone rapped up in 1 deck. I for one wouldn't mind if Doomguard as a card disappeared into the ether forever never to be heard from again. The ability to cheat minions out of your deck is so stupid. Aggro Pally is exactly the same way though (ie. Call to Arms).
For me Cubelock can't leave soon enough. It's probably just as bad as Jade Druid was when it got hit.
I LOVE the OP's opinion on Dark Pact though. Just change it to ONLY be able to target demons and I think the entire deck will be fine.
Cubelock needs a BIG nerf, not much else to say....
yeah i dont get it, with cubelock you have sometimes really bad matchups. spiteful druid is really hard matchup if you dont have vodol doll on turn 6 or they have prince 2 on 2.
also paladin can snowball really hard even after you used your hard removals and board clears
Here we are with the same old topic: "i don't like the deck and I don't want to tech against it, mama blizz plz help"
Top deck is cheat
I hope my edit clarifies my position, I don't want to destroy the archetype just make it seem a little more fair.
Cubelock can:
-clear boards early against aggro
-pressure against control with doomguards/mountain giants
-combo or even OTK against control
-clear massive boards with tempo with Lord Godfrey
-heal for 25+
Deelanders, you're a wonderful person with a lot of potential. Don't waste your time with proposed changes. Blizzard has shown us in the past that they don't like nerfing cards. They prefer to give tools to players to counter the problematic decks. That way,everyone is happy: the ones that abuse the broken decks are happy because they get to keep playing it, the other ones who play against those decks are happy because they got the tools needed to counter and Blizzard is happy because they earn money from creating all these tech cards.
Yes, these tech cards are so reliant that if you don't have them at the right turn, you pretty much lose the game. But hey, at least we got them,right? Also, don't blame Blizzard because we, the players have shown them in the past that we are willing to play the game no matter how the meta is. (huntrtaker meta, shaman meta, secret pala meta and the list goes on)
So yeah Deelanders, as you can see, it's not worth the effort. If you want to change something, start with yourself.
I agree that a lot of people are playing Cubelock, but here are my two cents: Cubelock does NOT need, require or deserve a nerf at all. Warlock was given some very fair and somewhat underpowered cards in Frozen Throne and K&C; remember how everybody mocked Skull of the Man'ari and Possessed Lackey when they came out? even Voidlord got sketchy looks. As a matter of fact, Warlock has probably been given the fairest cards in the whole game. By themselves, Warlock's cards are barely playable. However, it's the synergy within them that makes the class so good right now. It's not because of one or two cards, it's that all of the weaker cards happen to synergise with each other to make a greater output. It's the same way in Rogue, too: Preparation is, on its own, a pretty weak card. But put together with a bunch of other spells and Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Edwin VanCleef, suddenly it's a key component.
My point is that Blizzard created no forced synergy with the Warlock cards like in other classes (*cough* *cough* Shaman), they were all very balanced and in most cases, underpowered, but when put together in the right deck, it becomes very powerful. Isn't that key in card games? You give classes very balanced cards, you don't force players to play an exact deck (*cough* *cough* Shaman *cough* Quest cards), but they work together harmoniously anyways. Do you want Blizzard to try and push for Jade Mage and Control Hunter like they did with Freeze Shaman? No. My point here is that Cubelock is probably the most well-designed thing in this game since the League of Explorers PvE.
Yes, it's powerful. Yes, some cards in it are broken. Yes, the combos can be ridiculous. But that's what makes it a good deck. Moderately powerful cards, they can be played in most decks, but excel when you have synergy. In fact, that's the same strategy with Hunter and Warrior in The Witchwood. While they gave Hunter some Control-esque cards, they didn't go all in on the concept. Meanwhile, Warrior received cards that compliment the Rush archetype AND the Control archetype (See: Baku Quest Warrior). Isn't that how you design a game? I'd rather have this than forced synergy and no player creativity or initiative to play any other deck. It's the variance that's what sets apart Hearthstone from other card games.
P.s. How are you finding 50% of your matches being against Cubelock? I'm at rank 3-5 and all I see is 30% Aggro Pally, 30% Baku Quest Warrior, 10% Spiteful, 10% Taunt/Hand Druid, 10% Rogue and 10% people who don't know what they're doing (I just played against a Quest/Archmage Arugal/Elemental/Big Mage. I shit you not).
Before you get pissed at me, I would like to say that I don't play Cubelock. Yes, I did during K&C to climb, but after that, I mainly just play Hand Druid, Tempo/Burgle Rogue and Aggro Paladin.