These are not cards that I consider overpowered in the current meta game, but card design that really hurts Hearthstone balance wise, restricts future card design, and overall problematic.(In no particular order)
Remember when Lightning Storm was considered Strong? Or even arguably on of the best clears in the game because Shaman can RNG out Wrath of Air Totem and hit 4 to the enemy board for 3 mana? Well meet Devolve, an AOE Silence/"Fuck your board" spell, for only 2 Mana and No Overload tag. So overpowered it will have you wondering why Mass Dispel even exist. It gives Shaman favorable trades, Removes taunts/problematic cards ect. For a 2 Mana spell its way too efficient for the Utility it provides.
The Win-Con of every deck is the same. Reduce your opponents health to 0 or lower. Decks accomplish this in various ways. This card defies the very way Hearthstone is supposed to be played. Paying 3 Mana to become invincible with only 1 card that interacts with it is essentially an uninteractive experience because of the way Tech Cards typically work in Hearthstone, cards like Eater of Secrets and Skulking Geist are Great when they serve their purpose and completely useless in other match ups. So in a lot of cases running Tech Cards hurt you more than they benefit you. With this card Mage is able to cheat out 2 turns, which is a Huge advantage that is uninteractive and game winning.
As much as I hate the Aggressive Play style in Hearthstone because it constantly suffocates the meta, crushing every players hopes and dreams of a Control Meta. Spreading Aids is really an instant win against most aggressive decks that aren't Token Shaman. While your opponent spends 3 and a half years climbing over a wall. Druid completely stabilizes and the enemy is looking at an army of 1 mana 30/30 Jade Golem.
In the current meta this card isn't necessarily overpowered, but objectively it is. Sure this card has the combo tag, but lets be real its a 5 Mana "Combo" fuck any minion in the ass. This card generates way too much value on average, and with Blizzard announcing that they are going to be printing more Late Game minions in future sets(Which is why Hex was nerfed, Vilespine Slayer will get out of hand.
In its current state it isn't too overpowered, unless you highroll because as you guessed, 4 Mana(Insert OP Minion Here) is problematic. Big Priest is virtually unstoppable when it does High Roll. Considering that even more OP late minions are coming according to Blizzard, you can expect the power lever of this card to rise. But realistically it all depends on the power-level of late game minions, which is something Blizzard now has to worry about when creating Future big minions.
NOTE: I know some people are going to say Shadowreaper Anduin is problematic. But realistically, I would agree if he wasn't literally carrying Priest on his back. Shadowreaper Anduin is pretty OP when drawn on curve alongside Raza the Chained, but without it Priest is back to Hero Power , Emote, Pass for 5 turns then conceding after drawing every single Shadow Word in the game.
Hey, this is a pretty good list. I just wanted to say that unless your devolving like 1-2 mana minions this is pretty balanced. Devolving big minions might get rid of them, but also places down other minions that might be as good or even better. I've seen multiple times where my opponents 5 mana minion would be devolved into the 4 mana 7/7. Sure there's a lot of RNG in this card but you could easily get screwed over with a doomsayer. Now I'm not saying that it can't benefit you, but this is kind of like a win or lose kind of card. Maybe an overload would make it a little more balanced but hey, its leaving in a bit anyway.
I agree with Ice Block and Spreading Plague even tho it's just 6 mana.
The thing with Devolve and a little bit of Eternal Servitude is that you require luck. And the only thing making Eternal Servitude a bit dangerous is Barnes. But otherwise I think they're fine.
Personally and I may be a bit bias but I think Vilespine Slayer is fine. It's basically an Assassinate with a body and combo requirement. The only time I got salty against this card was when a rogue played it twice then bounced it 4 more times against me with Shadowstep and Shadowcaster.
Hey, this is a pretty good list. I just wanted to say that unless your devolving like 1-2 mana minions this is pretty balanced. Devolving big minions might get rid of them, but also places down other minions that might be as good or even better. I've seen multiple times where my opponents 5 mana minion would be devolved into the 4 mana 7/7. Sure there's a lot of RNG in this card but you could easily get screwed over with a doomsayer. Now I'm not saying that it can't benefit you, but this is kind of like a win or lose kind of card. Maybe an overload would make it a little more balanced but hey, its leaving in a bit anyway.
I agree, the mana cost of the enemy board does make a difference, and it does have a chance of screwing you over because of its RNG nature, but more often than not, its providing insane value and good trades. Also you can preemptively trade off certain cost minions to prevent it. If it was consistently screwing people over it wouldn't be so prevalent.
I do agree, that maybe a slight mana increase or overload would help even it out.
I agree with Ice Block and Spreading Plague even tho it's just 6 mana.
The thing with Devolve and a little bit of Eternal Servitude is that you require luck. And the only thing making Eternal Servitude a bit dangerous is Barnes. But otherwise I think they're fine.
Personally and I may be a bit bias but I think Vilespine Slayer is fine. It's basically an Assassinate with a body and combo requirement. The only time I got salty against this card was when a rogue played it twice then bounced it 4 more times against me with Shadowstep and Shadowcaster.
That's why I stated I don't think Vilespine Slayer or Eternal Servitude is problematic right now, rather it could be soon because Blizzard stated they are printing more late game minions.
Mage is by far my most hated class in the game I would welcome an ice block HOF roatation with open arms despite the fact that I am a wild only player. The reason why I would encourage a change that dose not effect me is because once ice block gets HOF blizz must print more all class healing cards which not only helps mage but warlock and rouge in standard *Warlock is my favorite class*. This HOF rotation of ice block would also allow blizzard to print more mage minions which is great because it might influence some future mage decks to be more interactive and less freeze oriented.
Vilespine Slayer is fine, but the fact that you can Shadowstep it next turn is a big problem... I say Shadowstep is op and should be hall of famed... (though this will finish off the quest rogue in standard even more than it already was, but not that quest rogue is a nice archetype to begin with, mainly because of shadow stepping 5/5 charge minions)
I agree with Devolve, it needs a mana increase or an Overload, although Overload can sometimes be a benefit for them. Not that it's insanely oppressive, but I can't stand cards that completely disintegrate your gameplan, and Devolve does it to the whole board.
Basically it screws "tribal" type decks, N'Zoth building, and otherwise cheeky combos like shit with Blackguard. I think cards that "change" the minion shouldn't be in the game. Destroy and mass damage are fine.
Cards like Polymorph and Hex are way more problematic than destroy effects like Vilespine (the Warlock destroy effects obviously aren't seen as an issue by you), especially for the reasoning you mentioned about Blizzard wanting to print more late game minions in the future.
Ice Block is the stupidest card in the game, HoF or straight up delete please.
Eternal Servitude is only a problem when you can get those big minions to die early, like with Barnes. If they have to play the minions on curve, the deck just will not work as it does now. Barnes is the bigger issue, since Servitude by itself, without "cheating", is a very fair (yet very strong) card.
Lastly, I think people overreact about Spreading Plague. If your deck isn't strong enough to kill 1/5 minions, then you're just bad. Aggro players should realize they can't go overly wide against a Druid, and don't use up all your resources before they play it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Nature is the Day. Man is the Sun. Woman is the Moon. The Stone is the Sky. The Art is the Way.
then why is polymorph not on your list, or any other hard removal? I mean vilespine is pretty good but there are better tools.
Vilespine Slayer is arguably better in a lot of instances because it is a minion that can be bounced or trade up in the future and bodies can be targeted with buffs and require the opponent to deal with them, so the 3/4 body is a very relevant reason why it can be better.
Cards like Polymorph and the current Hex are examples of good removal that I think is actually really healthy for the game.
Devolve is the worst on here. I think evolve is a really fun card but only affects you. But to be able to completely break what your opponent has set up which can turn a game is crazy, not to mention the RNG bs that can occur
I agree that Bonemare is leagues above the power lever of other late game common cards, but that's precisely why I didn't include it.
I think viable late game common cards are a really haelthy thing for the game and making budget decks a little more viable, with Blizzard printing more late game orientated cards, Bonemare will be put in its place, but as I see it, Bonemare isn't nerf worthy.
Devolve is a total RNG card, I don't see what's wrong with it. I've watched many streams where someone has their board devolved just to get better cards than they had out. What I see mostly devolve used on are taunts and doomsayer. But most of the time, other minions get turned in to taunts or better cards and that person wins the game anyways.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You do not truly know someone, until you fight them.....
Vilespine? Someone is salty. I don't think a single one of those cards is problematic except Ice Block because it breaks the general rule of secrets. Which is that intuitive counterplay should allow you to beat them. You could change Ice Block to no longer being a secret and have words over the hero saying "YOUR OPPONENT HAS ICE BLOCK!" and it would still see play. That imo is problematic.
The other cards might annoy you, but you can play around them if you are a good player. Not Ice Block though. You either player Eater or you don't.
1 Reno Jackson : not only it rewards people for getting lucky (drawing reno before you are dead) but also promotes dump game play (the correct strategy when facing a reno deck is to not play around anything because the chance of them having a specific card is small).
2 Patches the Pirate : Rewards people for getting lucky and punishes them for getting unlucky and on top of that is too strong not to include I'm any aggro deck . (Prince is in the same category)
3 Tunnel Trogg : left unanswered thus little guy would just lose you the game and there are no things that answer a 1 13 efficient (except for pre nerf war axe)
4 Mysterious Chalanger : Rewards people for putting bad cards into their deck and get lucky not to draw them .
5 The mage quest : Promotes completely un interactive game play . When playing agains an exodus mage your only option is to go face and hope their plan does not work .
Since when has Mysterious Challenger been a problem 2016? The card is ok you have to but bad cards in your deck for a good effect. Your argument for Reno is stupid you have to draw it in order to live, so what you have to draw cards in order for them to work who knew? You can play around Reno decks at least in wild when ever I face Nzoth deck, evolve midrange shaman or Renodeck lf I draw kazauks or twisting nether I hold on to them until they drop their Nzoth or big play and then clear their board, Against Reno priest I wait to play slyvannas until the priest has used his entomb so slyvannas is effective or i wait until I can slyvannas shadow flame.
However everything else I agree with.
"1 Reno Jackson : not only it rewards people for getting lucky (drawing reno before you are dead) but also promotes dump game play (the correct strategy when facing a reno deck is to not play around anything because the chance of them having a specific card is small)."
Since when has Mysterious Challenger been a problem 2016? The card is ok you have to but bad cards in your deck for a good effect. Your argument for Reno is stupid you have to draw it in order to live, so what you have to draw cards in order for them to work who knew? You can play around Reno decks at least in wild when ever I face Nzoth deck, evolve midrange shaman or Renodeck lf I draw kazauks or twisting nether I hold on to them until they drop their Nzoth or big play and then clear their board, Against Reno priest I wait to play slyvannas until the priest has used his entomb so slyvannas is effective or i wait until I can slyvannas shadow flame.
However everything else I agree with.
"1 Reno Jackson : not only it rewards people for getting lucky (drawing reno before you are dead) but also promotes dump game play (the correct strategy when facing a reno deck is to not play around anything because the chance of them having a specific card is small)."
About Reno I was talking from the perspective of an aggro player . The fact that opponent draws reno before you can kill him is pure luck, not something he did to deserve it .
About Mysterious Challenger you might be right though but he was really broken in wild until recent power creeps . If you are looking at recent cards I should have put barnes instead (huge high roll rng card).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
These are not cards that I consider overpowered in the current meta game, but card design that really hurts Hearthstone balance wise, restricts future card design, and overall problematic.(In no particular order)
1: Devolve
Remember when Lightning Storm was considered Strong? Or even arguably on of the best clears in the game because Shaman can RNG out Wrath of Air Totem and hit 4 to the enemy board for 3 mana? Well meet Devolve, an AOE Silence/"Fuck your board" spell, for only 2 Mana and No Overload tag. So overpowered it will have you wondering why Mass Dispel even exist. It gives Shaman favorable trades, Removes taunts/problematic cards ect. For a 2 Mana spell its way too efficient for the Utility it provides.
2: Ice Block
The Win-Con of every deck is the same. Reduce your opponents health to 0 or lower. Decks accomplish this in various ways. This card defies the very way Hearthstone is supposed to be played. Paying 3 Mana to become invincible with only 1 card that interacts with it is essentially an uninteractive experience because of the way Tech Cards typically work in Hearthstone, cards like Eater of Secrets and Skulking Geist are Great when they serve their purpose and completely useless in other match ups. So in a lot of cases running Tech Cards hurt you more than they benefit you. With this card Mage is able to cheat out 2 turns, which is a Huge advantage that is uninteractive and game winning.
3: Spreading Plague
As much as I hate the Aggressive Play style in Hearthstone because it constantly suffocates the meta, crushing every players hopes and dreams of a Control Meta. Spreading Aids is really an instant win against most aggressive decks that aren't Token Shaman. While your opponent spends 3 and a half years climbing over a wall. Druid completely stabilizes and the enemy is looking at an army of 1 mana 30/30 Jade Golem.
4: Vilespine Slayer
In the current meta this card isn't necessarily overpowered, but objectively it is. Sure this card has the combo tag, but lets be real its a 5 Mana "Combo" fuck any minion in the ass. This card generates way too much value on average, and with Blizzard announcing that they are going to be printing more Late Game minions in future sets(Which is why Hex was nerfed, Vilespine Slayer will get out of hand.
5: Eternal Servitude
In its current state it isn't too overpowered, unless you highroll because as you guessed, 4 Mana(Insert OP Minion Here) is problematic. Big Priest is virtually unstoppable when it does High Roll. Considering that even more OP late minions are coming according to Blizzard, you can expect the power lever of this card to rise. But realistically it all depends on the power-level of late game minions, which is something Blizzard now has to worry about when creating Future big minions.
NOTE: I know some people are going to say Shadowreaper Anduin is problematic. But realistically, I would agree if he wasn't literally carrying Priest on his back. Shadowreaper Anduin is pretty OP when drawn on curve alongside Raza the Chained, but without it Priest is back to Hero Power , Emote, Pass for 5 turns then conceding after drawing every single Shadow Word in the game.
Hey, this is a pretty good list. I just wanted to say that unless your devolving like 1-2 mana minions this is pretty balanced. Devolving big minions might get rid of them, but also places down other minions that might be as good or even better. I've seen multiple times where my opponents 5 mana minion would be devolved into the 4 mana 7/7. Sure there's a lot of RNG in this card but you could easily get screwed over with a doomsayer. Now I'm not saying that it can't benefit you, but this is kind of like a win or lose kind of card. Maybe an overload would make it a little more balanced but hey, its leaving in a bit anyway.
I agree with Ice Block and Spreading Plague even tho it's just 6 mana.
The thing with Devolve and a little bit of Eternal Servitude is that you require luck. And the only thing making Eternal Servitude a bit dangerous is Barnes. But otherwise I think they're fine.
Personally and I may be a bit bias but I think Vilespine Slayer is fine. It's basically an Assassinate with a body and combo requirement. The only time I got salty against this card was when a rogue played it twice then bounced it 4 more times against me with Shadowstep and Shadowcaster.
then why is polymorph not on your list, or any other hard removal? I mean vilespine is pretty good but there are better tools.
Mage is by far my most hated class in the game I would welcome an ice block HOF roatation with open arms despite the fact that I am a wild only player. The reason why I would encourage a change that dose not effect me is because once ice block gets HOF blizz must print more all class healing cards which not only helps mage but warlock and rouge in standard *Warlock is my favorite class*. This HOF rotation of ice block would also allow blizzard to print more mage minions which is great because it might influence some future mage decks to be more interactive and less freeze oriented.
Vilespine Slayer is fine, but the fact that you can Shadowstep it next turn is a big problem... I say Shadowstep is op and should be hall of famed... (though this will finish off the quest rogue in standard even more than it already was, but not that quest rogue is a nice archetype to begin with, mainly because of shadow stepping 5/5 charge minions)
I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist. ©Trimutius
I agree with Devolve, it needs a mana increase or an Overload, although Overload can sometimes be a benefit for them. Not that it's insanely oppressive, but I can't stand cards that completely disintegrate your gameplan, and Devolve does it to the whole board.
Basically it screws "tribal" type decks, N'Zoth building, and otherwise cheeky combos like shit with Blackguard. I think cards that "change" the minion shouldn't be in the game. Destroy and mass damage are fine.
Cards like Polymorph and Hex are way more problematic than destroy effects like Vilespine (the Warlock destroy effects obviously aren't seen as an issue by you), especially for the reasoning you mentioned about Blizzard wanting to print more late game minions in the future.
Ice Block is the stupidest card in the game, HoF or straight up delete please.
Eternal Servitude is only a problem when you can get those big minions to die early, like with Barnes. If they have to play the minions on curve, the deck just will not work as it does now. Barnes is the bigger issue, since Servitude by itself, without "cheating", is a very fair (yet very strong) card.
Lastly, I think people overreact about Spreading Plague. If your deck isn't strong enough to kill 1/5 minions, then you're just bad. Aggro players should realize they can't go overly wide against a Druid, and don't use up all your resources before they play it.
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.
Devolve is the worst on here. I think evolve is a really fun card but only affects you. But to be able to completely break what your opponent has set up which can turn a game is crazy, not to mention the RNG bs that can occur
- LePatron
Devolve is a total RNG card, I don't see what's wrong with it. I've watched many streams where someone has their board devolved just to get better cards than they had out. What I see mostly devolve used on are taunts and doomsayer. But most of the time, other minions get turned in to taunts or better cards and that person wins the game anyways.
You do not truly know someone, until you fight them.....
Ice Block is the most problematic card in hearthstone, currently followed by Raza in this expansion. And the jade mechanic overall.
Vilespine? Someone is salty. I don't think a single one of those cards is problematic except Ice Block because it breaks the general rule of secrets. Which is that intuitive counterplay should allow you to beat them. You could change Ice Block to no longer being a secret and have words over the hero saying "YOUR OPPONENT HAS ICE BLOCK!" and it would still see play. That imo is problematic.
The other cards might annoy you, but you can play around them if you are a good player. Not Ice Block though. You either player Eater or you don't.
Rogue without vilespine only has shadowstep as incentive to play, if you ask me. Most other rogue cards are inferior to the other classes.
This is my top :
1 Reno Jackson : not only it rewards people for getting lucky (drawing reno before you are dead) but also promotes dump game play (the correct strategy when facing a reno deck is to not play around anything because the chance of them having a specific card is small).
2 Patches the Pirate : Rewards people for getting lucky and punishes them for getting unlucky and on top of that is too strong not to include I'm any aggro deck . (Prince is in the same category)
3 Tunnel Trogg : left unanswered thus little guy would just lose you the game and there are no things that answer a 1 13 efficient (except for pre nerf war axe)
4 Mysterious Chalanger : Rewards people for putting bad cards into their deck and get lucky not to draw them .
5 The mage quest : Promotes completely un interactive game play . When playing agains an exodus mage your only option is to go face and hope their plan does not work .
I'd like to see Obsidian Statue toned down a little. Maybe to a 3/8 or something.
Since when has Mysterious Challenger been a problem 2016? The card is ok you have to but bad cards in your deck for a good effect. Your argument for Reno is stupid you have to draw it in order to live, so what you have to draw cards in order for them to work who knew? You can play around Reno decks at least in wild when ever I face Nzoth deck, evolve midrange shaman or Renodeck lf I draw kazauks or twisting nether I hold on to them until they drop their Nzoth or big play and then clear their board, Against Reno priest I wait to play slyvannas until the priest has used his entomb so slyvannas is effective or i wait until I can slyvannas shadow flame.
However everything else I agree with.
"1 Reno Jackson : not only it rewards people for getting lucky (drawing reno before you are dead) but also promotes dump game play (the correct strategy when facing a reno deck is to not play around anything because the chance of them having a specific card is small)."