While I didn't play much Zoo since GvG came out the news of the nerf sparked my interested in one of my old favorite decks. Zoo carried me when I didn't have the cards to play something else.
I don't think Undertaker is good enough anymore, one aoe and he is history. I also don't think mech warlock is a good idea since mage does it better so I decided to build it a little more burst heavy without committing to a OTK build.
I made a short and hasty write up on the deck but I'm not too happy with the deck, even if the results are decent. The great strength of Zoo was consistency and I admit that I kinda lost a bit of that. I never liked Power Overwhelming in Zoo but without Undertaker I just feel the need for another win condition. I still play quite a lot of death rattles so maybe running one Undertaker might still be an idea but on the other hand the risk of not being able to buff it doesn't outweigh the reward of having a 3/2 or what ever, especially with a card like Micro Machine doing the same.
But I hope you guys have some ideas to improve the deck but also feel free to give your thoughts on post-UT-nerf Zoo in general.
Why would undertaker not be good enough? Zoo doesn't rely on giant undertakers to win games. almost all the minions in zoo gets blown away by an AOE, so what? it's not like undertaker has something ridiculous cost to play. I'ts ONE mana, can trade up and still needs to be removed because it can grow. It's just easier to remove now so it turned from broken to just really good.
Why would undertaker not be good enough? Zoo doesn't rely on giant undertakers to win games. almost all the minions in zoo gets blown away by an AOE, so what? it's not like undertaker has something ridiculous cost to play. I'ts ONE mana, can trade up and still needs to be removed because it can grow. It's just easier to remove now so it turned from broken to just really good.
Because I think there are better options than undertaker out there. Undertaker was auto include because it grew out of aoe range or at least was removal bait. It does neither anymore.
You're running way too many spells. The whole point of Zoo is to have as many minions as possible to that you dump your hand and are able to play Doomguard on curve with little to no drawback for massive tempo. Power Overwhelming is basically Soulfire that requires a turn to set up, so that would be the first spell to cut out.
Haunted Creeper is still one of the best board control 2-drops in the game, so I see no reason to cut one copy.
Arcane Golem is kind off an odd choice in this deck since we're not really aiming for face and it is pretty lack lustre for board control as a 3 mana 4 damage spell.
Shadowflame is a very interesting choice that I am going to test. It has proven to be pretty effective in the past since nobody sees it coming, but that was mostly during aggro metas, which is definetly not what we're going to get next season.
I'm personally plan to go back to basics and test Argent Squire in place of Undertaker. Pre-Naxx it was the best board control one-drop, so its worth giving a shot. Blood Knight might also be good tech since Paladin is going to rise up quite a bit, and Annoy-o-Trons are going to be everywhere.
Imp-losion is too overrated card. 4mana for 2-4 damage and imps. It's okay when you get 4 but still too vulnerable for aoe. Also have lost many games when ot gave only 2.
It's true it combos well with juggler and enchange o mechano, but in current meta its way too slow and low value card
I think its solid enough that it deserves at least a one-off. If your even on board with the opponent, Imp-losion is great to pull ahead. Also, being able to bait out AoE can sometimes be good for you.
I agree on the argent squire and bloodknight back to basics. I've been thinking also in the Hobgoblin synergies for long time too, now that the Undertaker is gone (at least for zoolock board control plan) what do you say about Hobo buffing Haunted creepers, Argent squires, Voidwalkers and friends?
I think the problem is that this plan forces you to hold onto minions, which is not what you want in Zoo. Hobgoblin is just so miserable as a 3 mana 2/3, so you have to wait until you draw something to buff and get value. Especially now that there's deck space for Soulfire, we want to have an empty hand as soon as possible so that we're not punished by the discard.
Why would undertaker not be good enough? Zoo doesn't rely on giant undertakers to win games. almost all the minions in zoo gets blown away by an AOE, so what? it's not like undertaker has something ridiculous cost to play. I'ts ONE mana, can trade up and still needs to be removed because it can grow. It's just easier to remove now so it turned from broken to just really good.
Because I think there are better options than undertaker out there. Undertaker was auto include because it grew out of aoe range or at least was removal bait. It does neither anymore.
Undertaker will still be strong and is still an auto-include in zoo. It was ridiculous because it grew out of AOE range 1 out of 10 games (If you had your undertaker grow to a 3/4 or 4/5 constantly then you must be playing rank 5-25) but it is a WAY better option than argent squire or any other one drop you are planning to replace him with.
You're running way too many spells. The whole point of Zoo is to have as many minions as possible to that you dump your hand and are able to play Doomguard on curve with little to no drawback for massive tempo. Power Overwhelming is basically Soulfire that requires a turn to set up, so that would be the first spell to cut out.
Haunted Creeper is still one of the best board control 2-drops in the game, so I see no reason to cut one copy.
Arcane Golem is kind off an odd choice in this deck since we're not really aiming for face and it is pretty lack lustre for board control as a 3 mana 4 damage spell.
Shadowflame is a very interesting choice that I am going to test. It has proven to be pretty effective in the past since nobody sees it coming, but that was mostly during aggro metas, which is definetly not what we're going to get next season.
I'm personally plan to go back to basics and test Argent Squire in place of Undertaker. Pre-Naxx it was the best board control one-drop, so its worth giving a shot. Blood Knight might also be good tech since Paladin is going to rise up quite a bit, and Annoy-o-Trons are going to be everywhere.
Power Overwhelming and Arcane Golem are indeed a step in the direction of burst. While I like the ability to get 8 damage out with 2 mana I agree that Arcana Golem feels a bit clunky and without Faceless there is no reason to actually play it. I might change that out. Double Overwhelming on the other hand works quite well as a finisher since I always have something on the board.
Squire is an interesting idea, the only thing I fear is that it wont do enough against Mech Mage. But if paladin will come big then Blood Knight is a great idea.#
Power Overwhelming and Arcane Golem are indeed a step in the direction of burst. While I like the ability to get 8 damage out with 2 mana I agree that Arcana Golem feels a bit clunky and without Faceless there is no reason to actually play it. I might change that out. Double Overwhelming on the other hand works quite well as a finisher since I always have something on the board.
Squire is an interesting idea, the only thing I fear is that it wont do enough against Mech Mage. But if paladin will come big then Blood Knight is a great idea.#
I feel that Soulfire already covers our issues with lack of reach. It's more consistent than a two card combo whose pieces do little on their own, and consistency is what we want in Zoo
I find soulfire to be a useful addition to zoo. It still does what you need.
What do you think about the paladin matchup. I didn't play zoo much against paladin, and I just got destroyed. Shielded minibot is really strong. What cards should I include/look for in the paladin matchup? I will definitely add 1 blood knight when I have it in place of one of my clerics.
I find soulfire to be a useful addition to zoo. It still does what you need.
What do you think about the paladin matchup. I didn't play zoo much against paladin, and I just got destroyed. Shielded minibot is really strong. What cards should I include/look for in the paladin matchup? I will definitely add 1 blood knight when I have it in place of one of my clerics.
Paladin matchups depends on the draw. They can have pretty good early answers in Shielded Minibot, Muster for Battle, Zombie Chow and Truesilver Champion. Paladin as many options to deal with a board by this expansion. They are pretty tricky to play against, with any deck types, especially aggro ones. For succeeding against Paladin... flood the board and pray basically.
Loatheb is a key card... since he can manage to buy you a turn out of Equality / Consecrate (one of them of both) and kill the opponent. Loatheb should be an auto-include in any aggro decks that don't want to struggle against mid-range matchups.
Sticky drops, good curve to open. There is no perfect mulligans, there are either perfect answer to a good start. I mean... you can't play around AoE as Zoo, the only way is with deathrattle sticky minions. Haunted Creeper, Piloted Shredder, Harvest Golem (which I still run) and push for dmaage and hope for them to don't have many answers (Truesilver, Consecrate, Silence).
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Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
What do you feel about Micro Machine? Could you elaborate on that card and how it fits in this deck!?
Micro Machine is simple. It's a strong 2-drop, that'll most likely be dealt with or snowball out of control. On my own, I've been obligate to BGH a MIcro Machine a few days ago...
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Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
What do you feel about Micro Machine? Could you elaborate on that card and how it fits in this deck!?
Micro Machine is the one card I wont take out of this deck while the rest is open for change. Throw it out with a taunt and it will grow and grow. I rarely coin it out but rather play it after I have the means to keep board control. It draws prime removal because people are scared of it and it let's people concede. It's a scary minion that grow in every stage of the game while Undertaker was worthless in late game because you could rarely ever let him grow to big numbers. But even if it gets killed in the early game, one less removal card in his deck = safe knife juggler.
One thing I would say is that this version is more face heavy than normal zoo. I rather have one bad trade if that keeps the Micro Machine alive and gets me like 4-5 more damage in.
I love the card but it does require some set up to get the best value.
For the mulligan question it's fairly easy I want some one drops out ASAP. Flame Imp is great but sometimes Void Walker is even better with Abusive in Hand. coin Flame Imp + Void Walker is great. Stuff like spells I throw away unless it's priest, than I like to keep soulfire. I never muligan for Micro Machine, that's a card I want to drop after I have a set up maybe T3 but even after that is fine.
What do you feel about Micro Machine? Could you elaborate on that card and how it fits in this deck!?
Micro Machine is the one card I wont take out of this deck while the rest is open for change. Throw it out with a taunt and it will grow and grow. I rarely coin it out but rather play it after I have the means to keep board control. It draws prime removal because people are scared of it and it let's people concede. It's a scary minion that grow in every stage of the game while Undertaker was worthless in late game because you could rarely ever let him grow to big numbers. But even if it gets killed in the early game, one less removal card in his deck = safe knife juggler.
One thing I would say is that this version is more face heavy than normal zoo. I rather have one bad trade if that keeps the Micro Machine alive and gets me like 4-5 more damage in.
I love the card but it does require some set up to get the best value.
For the mulligan question it's fairly easy I want some one drops out ASAP. Flame Imp is great but sometimes Void Walker is even better with Abusive in Hand. coin Flame Imp + Void Walker is great. Stuff like spells I throw away unless it's priest, than I like to keep soulfire. I never muligan for Micro Machine, that's a card I want to drop after I have a set up maybe T3 but even after that is fine.
So, in comparison to the Undertaker, Micro Machine requires more of a setup. I pretty like this way of thinking. I'm not a big fan of the zoo, but I'm a big fan of the Warlock hero power, so the Zoo is by definition with what I'm laddering in the beginning of each season (until I reach rank 12 I would say).
Micro Machine will definitely see a bit of play in my next early season.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
So, in comparison to the Undertaker, Micro Machine requires more of a setup. I pretty like this way of thinking. I'm not a big fan of the zoo, but I'm a big fan of the Warlock hero power, so the Zoo is by definition with what I'm laddering in the beginning of each season (until I reach rank 12 I would say).
Micro Machine will definitely see a bit of play in my next early season.
In a way, yeah. He needs more protection since his HP wont grow with the attack. You can play him just as a throw away minion to eat removal if you need to do it and that's okay but you get kinda protective to him.
I made a new Zoo list earlier today that's pretty effective. Normally I would have waited until the end of next season to post it but I don't expect to have much time to play this month. I've got explanations for all the card choices on the deck page and I'll write mulligan / match-up strategies if it gets enough attention.
While I didn't play much Zoo since GvG came out the news of the nerf sparked my interested in one of my old favorite decks. Zoo carried me when I didn't have the cards to play something else.
I don't think Undertaker is good enough anymore, one aoe and he is history. I also don't think mech warlock is a good idea since mage does it better so I decided to build it a little more burst heavy without committing to a OTK build.
I made a short and hasty write up on the deck but I'm not too happy with the deck, even if the results are decent. The great strength of Zoo was consistency and I admit that I kinda lost a bit of that. I never liked Power Overwhelming in Zoo but without Undertaker I just feel the need for another win condition. I still play quite a lot of death rattles so maybe running one Undertaker might still be an idea but on the other hand the risk of not being able to buff it doesn't outweigh the reward of having a 3/2 or what ever, especially with a card like Micro Machine doing the same.
But I hope you guys have some ideas to improve the deck but also feel free to give your thoughts on post-UT-nerf Zoo in general.
The Zoo deck with the Sea Giant is very viable and it uses Undertaker.
Why would undertaker not be good enough? Zoo doesn't rely on giant undertakers to win games. almost all the minions in zoo gets blown away by an AOE, so what? it's not like undertaker has something ridiculous cost to play. I'ts ONE mana, can trade up and still needs to be removed because it can grow. It's just easier to remove now so it turned from broken to just really good.
Zoo doesn't need undertaker, hunter does
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Because I think there are better options than undertaker out there. Undertaker was auto include because it grew out of aoe range or at least was removal bait. It does neither anymore.
You're running way too many spells. The whole point of Zoo is to have as many minions as possible to that you dump your hand and are able to play Doomguard on curve with little to no drawback for massive tempo. Power Overwhelming is basically Soulfire that requires a turn to set up, so that would be the first spell to cut out.
Haunted Creeper is still one of the best board control 2-drops in the game, so I see no reason to cut one copy.
Arcane Golem is kind off an odd choice in this deck since we're not really aiming for face and it is pretty lack lustre for board control as a 3 mana 4 damage spell.
Shadowflame is a very interesting choice that I am going to test. It has proven to be pretty effective in the past since nobody sees it coming, but that was mostly during aggro metas, which is definetly not what we're going to get next season.
I'm personally plan to go back to basics and test Argent Squire in place of Undertaker. Pre-Naxx it was the best board control one-drop, so its worth giving a shot. Blood Knight might also be good tech since Paladin is going to rise up quite a bit, and Annoy-o-Trons are going to be everywhere.
I think its solid enough that it deserves at least a one-off. If your even on board with the opponent, Imp-losion is great to pull ahead. Also, being able to bait out AoE can sometimes be good for you.
I think the problem is that this plan forces you to hold onto minions, which is not what you want in Zoo. Hobgoblin is just so miserable as a 3 mana 2/3, so you have to wait until you draw something to buff and get value. Especially now that there's deck space for Soulfire, we want to have an empty hand as soon as possible so that we're not punished by the discard.
Undertaker will still be strong and is still an auto-include in zoo. It was ridiculous because it grew out of AOE range 1 out of 10 games (If you had your undertaker grow to a 3/4 or 4/5 constantly then you must be playing rank 5-25) but it is a WAY better option than argent squire or any other one drop you are planning to replace him with.
Power Overwhelming and Arcane Golem are indeed a step in the direction of burst. While I like the ability to get 8 damage out with 2 mana I agree that Arcana Golem feels a bit clunky and without Faceless there is no reason to actually play it. I might change that out. Double Overwhelming on the other hand works quite well as a finisher since I always have something on the board.
Squire is an interesting idea, the only thing I fear is that it wont do enough against Mech Mage. But if paladin will come big then Blood Knight is a great idea.#
I feel that Soulfire already covers our issues with lack of reach. It's more consistent than a two card combo whose pieces do little on their own, and consistency is what we want in Zoo
I find soulfire to be a useful addition to zoo. It still does what you need.
What do you think about the paladin matchup. I didn't play zoo much against paladin, and I just got destroyed. Shielded minibot is really strong. What cards should I include/look for in the paladin matchup? I will definitely add 1 blood knight when I have it in place of one of my clerics.
Paladin matchups depends on the draw. They can have pretty good early answers in Shielded Minibot, Muster for Battle, Zombie Chow and Truesilver Champion. Paladin as many options to deal with a board by this expansion. They are pretty tricky to play against, with any deck types, especially aggro ones. For succeeding against Paladin... flood the board and pray basically.
Loatheb is a key card... since he can manage to buy you a turn out of Equality / Consecrate (one of them of both) and kill the opponent. Loatheb should be an auto-include in any aggro decks that don't want to struggle against mid-range matchups.
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
What cards do you mulligan for usually?
Sticky drops, good curve to open. There is no perfect mulligans, there are either perfect answer to a good start. I mean... you can't play around AoE as Zoo, the only way is with deathrattle sticky minions. Haunted Creeper, Piloted Shredder, Harvest Golem (which I still run) and push for dmaage and hope for them to don't have many answers (Truesilver, Consecrate, Silence).
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
Micro Machine is simple. It's a strong 2-drop, that'll most likely be dealt with or snowball out of control. On my own, I've been obligate to BGH a MIcro Machine a few days ago...
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
Micro Machine is the one card I wont take out of this deck while the rest is open for change. Throw it out with a taunt and it will grow and grow. I rarely coin it out but rather play it after I have the means to keep board control. It draws prime removal because people are scared of it and it let's people concede. It's a scary minion that grow in every stage of the game while Undertaker was worthless in late game because you could rarely ever let him grow to big numbers. But even if it gets killed in the early game, one less removal card in his deck = safe knife juggler.
One thing I would say is that this version is more face heavy than normal zoo. I rather have one bad trade if that keeps the Micro Machine alive and gets me like 4-5 more damage in.
I love the card but it does require some set up to get the best value.
For the mulligan question it's fairly easy I want some one drops out ASAP. Flame Imp is great but sometimes Void Walker is even better with Abusive in Hand. coin Flame Imp + Void Walker is great. Stuff like spells I throw away unless it's priest, than I like to keep soulfire. I never muligan for Micro Machine, that's a card I want to drop after I have a set up maybe T3 but even after that is fine.
So, in comparison to the Undertaker, Micro Machine requires more of a setup. I pretty like this way of thinking. I'm not a big fan of the zoo, but I'm a big fan of the Warlock hero power, so the Zoo is by definition with what I'm laddering in the beginning of each season (until I reach rank 12 I would say).
Micro Machine will definitely see a bit of play in my next early season.
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
In a way, yeah. He needs more protection since his HP wont grow with the attack. You can play him just as a throw away minion to eat removal if you need to do it and that's okay but you get kinda protective to him.
I made a new Zoo list earlier today that's pretty effective. Normally I would have waited until the end of next season to post it but I don't expect to have much time to play this month. I've got explanations for all the card choices on the deck page and I'll write mulligan / match-up strategies if it gets enough attention.