I haven't seen many people talk about sludge slurper: the more I play control shaman, the more I think Sludge Slurper is actualy not good at all in it. I see many list adding it (including on this post), and i did play it during the first 2 weeks of the new expansion, but it's not worth a card slot imo. I think it's a trap, it looks good, but then you start to keep more cards in your opening hand instead of searching for the scheme against aggro, and as value generator earthen might is better. early game it doesn't do enough, late game it's worse than a lot of other alternatives. And if the idea is to get two spells from agatha in my experience unless you get lucky they end up clogging your hand with too much spells you can't use because it's not the right board state (aoes, storm bringer, bloodlust, ....), and you waste even more time just trying to avoid burning cards.
You don't keep it in opening hand. I always full mulligan for the scheme against aggro. And I don't agree, once I turned into Hagatha mode, I'm always happy to draw this in the late-game ; way happier than I would be drawing a Saboteur or an Omega Mind.
And yes, I can understand your concern about having trouble managing the size of your hand, especially in the Warrior matchup. I used to even be afraid to play Hagatha at all. But you have to change completely your way of approaching the match-up ! Don't stand your ground doing nothing and waiting for the opponent to "play a card or burn one" like Warriors do, be the one putting pressure ! Just spam spells unefficiently, overextend juuuust enough into their AoEs to force them to use them. If you have Hagatha early and do this, trust me, they will run out of removals before you run out of random spells (at least with the minions generating minions list I use), and by the time you both play your first Elysianna, you'll have plenty of removals in hand through random spells and he'll have none.
Since I started playing against Warriors with this state of mind, I'm 7/2 against them (talking only about Elysianna Warrior here). Lost one because Hagatha was bottom 5 cards, lost another one because I evolved Giggling into Akali and I was so excited to draw a 9/13 Fountain that I didn't realise my hand would be full and ofc I burned Elysianna the next turn. Also add to those 9 games one draw, because I had a very late Hagatha I couldn't force out ressources from him and the game went to the turn limit.
So really, unless Hagatha is bottom 5, you have good chances against Warriors by spamming spells like a madman. And Sludge is really good at this, aswell as Rats and Nimbus ; they also all are good to play early against aggro decks just to fight for the board, even if you don't keep them in opening hand to fish your schemes.
I decided to mix things up adding the anti-fun team (hecklebot/ saboteur).
Honestly I've had more trouble than fun with both of these cards especially when the battlecry is repeated by Shudderwock and that's why I decided to cut them
I decided to mix things up adding the anti-fun team (hecklebot/ saboteur).
Honestly I've had more trouble than fun with both of these cards especially when the battlecry is repeated by Shudderwock and that's why I decided to cut them
I can understand that, but I came to appreciate shudderwock reusing their battlecries, especialy the saboteurs. So much that I sometimes play it before Elysiana just to empty my opponent's hands from possible answers in advance. (against warrior mostly)
In regards to Lightning Storm, I always deemed it a bad card unless the meta is full of Zoolocks/Token Druids which, thankfully, isn't the case anymore. I decided to run a copy in Morpher Shaman since that deck is hopeless vs. any kind of Aggro when you do basically nothing for the first five turns. But any serious Control Shaman list should have enough tools to deal with early aggression. When it comes to the Control Warrior match up, I used to skip Shudderwock but since it's likely that Archivist Elysiana is going to take a hit (maybe by increasing the mana cost to 9/10 or making her impossible to discover off other cards/herself) you cannot deny yourself that much extra value. Even when they go as far as changing Elysiana from Battlecry to Deathrattle to make sure Shaman isn't the only class capable of playing multiple Elysianas.
I tried saboteur in control shaman and it did´t pay off... I personally also dislike playing cards that just wait for library depleted but without Elysiana or Chef the deck becomes very risky against warriors (or other control shamans) if they can clear my final board.
The fact that he is still struggling reaching legend while other streamers have got there already says everything about control shaman. It is OK until rank 5. After that it can't cope with the variety of pushing decks
2x Witch's Brew: I often find the heal winning me both matches against tempo decks, because they run out of tempo and control warrior because can help in the fatigue game (often it doesn't but it can)
2x Mind Control Tech has saved me many games against Conjurer mage on their Khadgar turn. Also nice with Shudderwock to claim back the board.
1x Giggling Inventor because it's great stall and has better synergy with shudderwock than any of the cards cut.
I also run only 1x Lightning Storm and no Bloodmage Thalnos because I feel that's too weak against pretty much all decks except for Zoolock and Murloc Shaman. And I don't run Doomsayers because they don't help me against Rogue and Warrior.
Hunterace version is built to face a lot of Zoolocks in worlds. Pyro + acolyte + 0 mana spell isn't a great build for ladder, it's bad against both Warriors and Rogues which is gonna be 60% of your matches.
This I can confirm
I moved away from Big Bad Voodoo because often the result is bad or I lack viable targets
This deck is pretty solid imo! AAECAaoICvUE/wWn7gLv9wLi+AKXgAOggAO5mQPFmQOGnQMKigHeBf4FsgaKB40I+wytkQOKlAPGmQMA
The fact that he is still struggling reaching legend while other streamers have got there already says everything about control shaman. It is OK until rank 5. After that it can't cope with the variety of pushing decks
How are the Mana Tides doing ? Wouldn't Far Sight be better for the potential high roll on Fountain/Hagatha things like that ?
In the current meta an 0/3 so rarely survives more than one turn I don't think it's worth playing. I run barely any early game taunts or even minions so it's pretty much getting thrown out naked. Far Sight is a superior card right now.
Thanks everyone for the comments. At the moment I'm trying all sort of variations with your suggestions, looking which one fits me the best. I have noticed that some pro players are running Zentimo and Kragwa, are those cards any good (as in more useful as something like Unseen Saboteur or MCT)?
i use the lackey list and I crafted zerbino and not regret it as been able to ex or silence multiple targets it's game changing in some situations.. I tried krag'wa and it is to slow...
How are the Mana Tides doing ? Wouldn't Far Sight be better for the potential high roll on Fountain/Hagatha things like that ?
It's at worse a Far Sight that doesn't discount. but it could get value by drawing more, as a minion it activates Hagatha the Witch and can get used with some random spells like Mutate, Bloodlust etc, it baits removal/ "heals" 3 damage from my face etc. I like it more then Spirit of the Frog personally.
The thing I don't like too much about it is when you're in hagatha mode, you're already tight trying to dump your hand and not overdraw. If you ever put this on the board, opponent will just let this be and you'll overdraw half your deck x)
Deck is updated (check the OP). I am using double Bog Slosher at the moment, because I'm facing a lot of warriors, but when mage becomes common I'd put in BGH, or Unseen Saboteur when Mecha'thun is popular and so on.
You don't keep it in opening hand. I always full mulligan for the scheme against aggro. And I don't agree, once I turned into Hagatha mode, I'm always happy to draw this in the late-game ; way happier than I would be drawing a Saboteur or an Omega Mind.
And yes, I can understand your concern about having trouble managing the size of your hand, especially in the Warrior matchup. I used to even be afraid to play Hagatha at all. But you have to change completely your way of approaching the match-up ! Don't stand your ground doing nothing and waiting for the opponent to "play a card or burn one" like Warriors do, be the one putting pressure ! Just spam spells unefficiently, overextend juuuust enough into their AoEs to force them to use them.
If you have Hagatha early and do this, trust me, they will run out of removals before you run out of random spells (at least with the minions generating minions list I use), and by the time you both play your first Elysianna, you'll have plenty of removals in hand through random spells and he'll have none.
Since I started playing against Warriors with this state of mind, I'm 7/2 against them (talking only about Elysianna Warrior here). Lost one because Hagatha was bottom 5 cards, lost another one because I evolved Giggling into Akali and I was so excited to draw a 9/13 Fountain that I didn't realise my hand would be full and ofc I burned Elysianna the next turn. Also add to those 9 games one draw, because I had a very late Hagatha I couldn't force out ressources from him and the game went to the turn limit.
So really, unless Hagatha is bottom 5, you have good chances against Warriors by spamming spells like a madman. And Sludge is really good at this, aswell as Rats and Nimbus ; they also all are good to play early against aggro decks just to fight for the board, even if you don't keep them in opening hand to fish your schemes.
Honestly I've had more trouble than fun with both of these cards especially when the battlecry is repeated by Shudderwock and that's why I decided to cut them
Because one witch's brew is usualy enough to reach ten mana, and after ten mana omega mind is better.
I can understand that, but I came to appreciate shudderwock reusing their battlecries, especialy the saboteurs. So much that I sometimes play it before Elysiana just to empty my opponent's hands from possible answers in advance. (against warrior mostly)
The problem being that if you Shudder casts Saboteur first, and pulls a Brawl, and loses the brawl, you lose the rest of the battlecry.
THIS!
In regards to Lightning Storm, I always deemed it a bad card unless the meta is full of Zoolocks/Token Druids which, thankfully, isn't the case anymore. I decided to run a copy in Morpher Shaman since that deck is hopeless vs. any kind of Aggro when you do basically nothing for the first five turns. But any serious Control Shaman list should have enough tools to deal with early aggression. When it comes to the Control Warrior match up, I used to skip Shudderwock but since it's likely that Archivist Elysiana is going to take a hit (maybe by increasing the mana cost to 9/10 or making her impossible to discover off other cards/herself) you cannot deny yourself that much extra value. Even when they go as far as changing Elysiana from Battlecry to Deathrattle to make sure Shaman isn't the only class capable of playing multiple Elysianas.
I tried saboteur in control shaman and it did´t pay off... I personally also dislike playing cards that just wait for library depleted but without Elysiana or Chef the deck becomes very risky against warriors (or other control shamans) if they can clear my final board.
My advice: check Gaara on youtube or twitch
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
The fact that he is still struggling reaching legend while other streamers have got there already says everything about control shaman. It is OK until rank 5. After that it can't cope with the variety of pushing decks
This deck is pretty solid imo!
AAECAaoICvUE/wWn7gLv9wLi+AKXgAOggAO5mQPFmQOGnQMKigHeBf4FsgaKB40I+wytkQOKlAPGmQMA
You can also consider Big Game Hunter as a battlecry in the pool, as it deals with early Giants easily, and more removal is nice for Control decks ;)
https://outof.cards
He reached Legend with only Shaman though.
https://outof.cards
Currently trying out a version with Spirit of the Frog and Thunderhead shennanigans. It's actually pretty good!
https://outof.cards
How are the Mana Tides doing ? Wouldn't Far Sight be better for the potential high roll on Fountain/Hagatha things like that ?
In the current meta an 0/3 so rarely survives more than one turn I don't think it's worth playing. I run barely any early game taunts or even minions so it's pretty much getting thrown out naked. Far Sight is a superior card right now.
Thanks everyone for the comments. At the moment I'm trying all sort of variations with your suggestions, looking which one fits me the best. I have noticed that some pro players are running Zentimo and Kragwa, are those cards any good (as in more useful as something like Unseen Saboteur or MCT)?
i use the lackey list and I crafted zerbino and not regret it as been able to ex or silence multiple targets it's game changing in some situations.. I tried krag'wa and it is to slow...
It's at worse a Far Sight that doesn't discount. but it could get value by drawing more, as a minion it activates Hagatha the Witch and can get used with some random spells like Mutate, Bloodlust etc, it baits removal/ "heals" 3 damage from my face etc. I like it more then Spirit of the Frog personally.
https://outof.cards
The thing I don't like too much about it is when you're in hagatha mode, you're already tight trying to dump your hand and not overdraw. If you ever put this on the board, opponent will just let this be and you'll overdraw half your deck x)
Deck is updated (check the OP). I am using double Bog Slosher at the moment, because I'm facing a lot of warriors, but when mage becomes common I'd put in BGH, or Unseen Saboteur when Mecha'thun is popular and so on.