This is for Rogues who are not use to tempo rogue and got into rogue when Miracle/Molly/aggro where in. This can even be used for more experienced players. Prior to the Tink and Nat Pagle nerf Tempo rogue was amazing, Shadow stepping Tinkmaster Overspark was awesome, along with a cold blooded Nat Pagle.
So why talk about tempo rogue? well Come tuesday MIracle rogue is going to be in a load of trouble. The Loatheb isn't even the biggest issue, its the 2 new taunts which are absolutely amazing, in combinatoin with Loatheb. Even with this rogue will be fine, because the new cards help out rogues mid-range variant tempo rogue. Now why isn't tempo rogue as popular as the other variants right now? simple, Ramp Druid and Fast Druid. Tempo rogue's use low drops and removal to secure the board early to mid-game, and with druid pump out giant minions mid game with an OTK follow up, Tempo rogue just couldn't keep up. Not saying it wasn't possible to get legend or do good in tournaments with a tempo rogue, but you had to be a masochist to do it.
So what is different now? well the new nax cards are exactly what the tempo rogue needed. Cards with more durability that would last longer and didn't hurt its match ups with aggro decks. The cards I am referring to are Haunted Creeper, Sludge Belcher, Spectral Knight and Unstable Ghoul.
Links and Articles
I am going to link some old post and articles on tempo rogue to give everyone some more info, and then I am going to go into the new cards. What to use and what not to use.
So if you looked at that you get the gist of it, here are some of the new cards I will divide them into yes, no and maybe. (cards that are not listed shouldn't even be considered, the no section is for cards that people might put in). If you want to know what non-nax cards are used in tempo rogue click the links above, also feel free to ask about nax cards that I didn't mention if you want to know why I didn't put them in here.
NO ! ! !! !
Echoing Ooze - Maybe for aggro rogue or that other variant I am working on, but there are better 2 drops that will be more consistent for you.
Nerub'ar Weblord - No, once again better more consistent 2 drops. This only works against decks with lots of battle cries, which means its just a small body if your playing a deck that doesn't run them.
Shade of Naxxramas - No, this card is only good if you can drop it on turn 2 or 3 before it can get AOE'ed. Anyways rogue has the best 3 drop in the game SI:7 Agent. So you don't have to worry about your 3 drops.
Zombie Chow - I might regret saying this, but no. This is a more of an aggro card, because even with the heal aggro can usually make up for the damage. Not Tempo rogue, a tempo rogue does not want to give their opponent anything extra.
Nerubian Egg - No, no please don't. Why do I see this card in rogue decks so often? You really want to burn your Backstab or SI:7 Agent on this just to get a 4/4? please do not run this as a tempo rogue. Even cold blooded it is questionable. As a tempo rogue you want something on the board that is going to get you momentum, not something that sits there waiting.
Dancing Swords - No,same reason as the other 3 drops, your not desperate for a good 3 drop and you don't want to give your opponent anything extra. For aggro rogue or Mill rogue this might be a fine card though.
Deathlord - you want tempo, anything that gives your opponent tempo or board presence is bad.
Feugen - Don't get me wrong, great body on this card, would be considered for the 5 drop spot if there wasn't two even better 5 drops coming out along with it. You just have way better options for your 5 drops.
Maybe ?
Baron Rivendare - If mid-range tempo death rattle becomes a thing than yes. Otherwise I would say no. By becoming a thing I mean if Rogue's death rattle deck is the strongest mid-range death rattle deck. You don't want to be the second strongest death rattle deck or worse, make sure to keep with what rogue is best at. Though at the same time don't be afraid to experiment.
Undertaker - This is a wierd one, if your tempo rogue runs lots of death rattles, like Loot Hoarder, Haunted Creeper, Harvest Golem, Sludge Belcher, Unstable Ghoul and Bloodmage Thalnos you might consider putting this guy in. If you think about it chances are one of those cards is coming down in the next turn or 2 so you could have a nicely buffed minion on your hands. Once again if you have lots of early game death rattles this is a card to consider. Even with this there might be better more consistent choices.
Loatheb - Okay why a maybe? well if your running into classes that don't use many spells like Zoolock than no. Another reason is because your 5 drops are about to get crowded, so your have to choose carefully. You do not want to run 7-8 5 drops, even 5-6 is pushing it. Though on the other hand it does hinder your opponent from gaining tempo with spells, so if your light on 5 drops this card might be the one.
Maexxna - Wierd, it looks like a great tempo card on the surface. Though it is very slow and priest can take it at any time. The new cards really support priest and I believe we will see a rise in them, so I wouldn't be running a card that helps them. Though it has a sturdy body and unless silenced it is guaranteed to take out a 2 or more minions for you. Though when silenced its pretty useless. If the meta calls for it, otherwise I would go with a better 6 drop.
Unstable Ghoul [/card]- If Loathed was made to counter Miracle rogue than unstable Ghoul Was made to counter Zoolock. Why maybe when I said it was great above? well that's the thing, it can be great, it can also be a real pain. Control decks will use the death rattle to their advantage and use it to kill off your weaker minions. The [card]Harvest Golem, Haunted Creeper, Argent Squire and Loot Hoarder are all very weak to this. When you want minions to stay on the board to keep tempo this can really screw you. On the other hand, this card is amazing against aggro and Zoo. So if the meta is crawling with aggressive decks and Zoolock put this in, its also a great side board to have when you run into aggro decks in tournaments that allow side boarding.
Anub'ar Ambusher - Similar to Undertaker, in that it should only be considered if your deck runs a lot of battle cries. It hurts your tempo when it dies, but if the minion coming back to your hand has a battle cry you can take advantage of again than he could be amazing. This being said, he still could be very inconsistent. You have to make sure you don't put him down onto a board where you cannot take advantage of him. He is a risky card regardless.
Kel'Thuzad - Might end up being a staple in a lot of control decks. He might be great in tempo rogue, he might not. You need to test him out, the thing is unless you already have a board developed he does nothing. So if your already winning he is great, if not he is just a big body. I personally would rather have a card that helps me win that keeps me wining. Even with this, he could be a great card for tempo rogue against control decks that run huge minions, you could trade your board into the minions without the fear of losing all tempo. Just have to wait and see.
YES ! !
Haunted Creeper - Great card for tempo rogue, anything that can help you maintain board presence is awesome. Some people will even burn a silence on this guy, which is great for you, because I am sure there are cards in your deck that are word to have silenced : D
Sludge Belcher - In my opinion the new best taunt in the game. Yes just like every other taunt it is weak to silence, even so its a 4/7 with taunt for 5 mana. On top of its great stats it takes 2 hits to get rid of. Regardless this minion is a 2 for 1 trade. It either requires a silence and a minion or 2 minions to take out. This is a great tempo card, and should be used in every tempo rogue as your new taunt.
Spectral Knight - Solid Body and immunity to spell removal, along with surviving any of the games default AOE's (Non buffed or shadow flamming a crazy strong minion) makes this minion a go to card for tempo rogue. You opponent is going to have to either use their face or trade minions into it to clear it in most cases.
Here are some examples of what Tempo Rogue Nax decks might look like, I cannot say for sure if any of these will work until tested but an example is never bad.
loatheb is almost must for tempo rogue beacuse mages and priests can clear ur field or u need survive from pyroblast so its good card for countering them. + haunted creeper isnt good in rogue if u dont run it in miracle. In miracle haunted creeper would be much better than in tempo.
loatheb is almost must for tempo rogue beacuse mages and priests can clear ur field or u need survive from pyroblast so its good card for countering them. + haunted creeper isnt good in rogue if u dont run it in miracle. In miracle haunted creeper would be much better than in tempo.
Loatheb is just a lot of 5 drops, but it might work who knows, that is why I have it in maybe. Its completely useless against zoo. Haunted creeper for miracle? Ummm........ No? No way dude, Miracle is all about spell removal and card draw to get your hands on the Leeroy combo, Haunted Creeper does nothing for that. Unless your desperate to get a body for cold blood, and if so your not playing miracle right. Haunted creeper is great for tempo rogue, tempo rogue is all about keeping bodies on the board, Haunted creeper does that for you. There are a lot of Minions with 5 and 3 health. Backstab and SI:7 only do 2 damage, Haunted creeper is great for an efficient trade. With eviscerate it is the same thing, that last damage can be taken care of by the spiders. They trade very efficiently in rogue, and keep bodies on the board, its perfect for tempo.
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Nice thread. Never played miracle, but the sludge belcher in particular seems very useful. Expect heavy silence though.
Thank you : D
Oh yeah silence will be every where cannot play around it now a days, just got to make sure you have enough minions to bait out the silences.
Ragnaros is great vs silence, but not that great in a tempo :P I've seen semi miracle rogues play rag though, with some success.
I run rag from time to time in my tempo rogue, He can be really good if you can secure board presence and ensure your opponents board is clear on turn 8. He can also be good against control decks, its definitely a card to consider when making a tempo rogue deck
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He can be yes, though tempo rogue is so good at controlling the board it is not that hard to get him on a clear board and secure 8 damage to your opponents face. He is also good if you can clear everything but the minion you want to kill. Rag is much better against control decks though, I tend to use him when the meta is heavy with control, especially at higher ranks.
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Rag vs zoo or the likes of it is worthless. Unless you also run Baron Geddon
Rag can get an easy kill on doomguard on a solid finisher because zoo vs tempo rogue tend to be longer games. Also been thinking more about what you said on Loatheb and I will be testing it out on tuesday, might be good if you can predict when a board clear is coming
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I'm not sure about Spectral Knight so far. As you said, tthere are a lot of nice 5-dtops. But the most difficult thing will be to get enough draw as the Azure Drakes (another 5-drop) will probably be removed. Absolutely yes to Sludge Belcher btw. But why don't you plan to run Defender of Argus. With all the Deathrattlle minions you can be sure, that there will be spmething to buff next turn. I think he is a must.
I think you might be underrating the Nerub'ar Weblord a little bit. he slows down zoos (Abusive Sergeant, Flame Imp) and he's a great body against zoo as well. With Cold Blood, he cannot be ignored at all. I've been playing with him, and people seem to always try to kill him as soon as they can. Another reason it keeps tempo in your favor is, as a rogue, you play with Combos, which are essentially battlecries, but remain unaffected. I've toyed with using just 1 so far, and I like the results. Also, I prefer Defias Ringleader over Haunted Creeper, but that's just me. I used the Haunted Creeper for a while, but he's just too weak to do anything, even if he does stick around. Most of the time I barely know what I'm talking about I guess, so maybe you can disregard this haha.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
Yeah, against zoo, the weblord gives you a nice advantage. If the meta is very zoo heavy, I think it's worth it. After all, it will give you tempo early game.
I'm not sure about Spectral Knight so far. As you said, tthere are a lot of nice 5-dtops. But the most difficult thing will be to get enough draw as the Azure Drakes (another 5-drop) will probably be removed. Absolutely yes to Sludge Belcher btw. But why don't you plan to run Defender of Argus. With all the Deathrattlle minions you can be sure, that there will be spmething to buff next turn. I think he is a must.
Cult master is to fragile for tempo rogue You want minions that will stay on the board as long as possible, especially mid-game. The reason loot hoarder works is because he is draw and early game. Though cult is draw, as a mid-range deck you want your mid-range minions to be durable and/or pack a punch. Gnomish may not pack a punch but it is durable and a guaranteed card draw. You cannot guarantee card draw with cult.
I haven't played tempo rogue myself, but I like the archetype in theory. I'm curious, though: doesn't Shadowstep have a place in this type of deck, especially the "standard" post-naxx tempo? Seems useful on paper with Leeroy, Loatheb, SI:7 Agent, Gnomish Inventor, Argent Commander...
Shadow step is a solid card for a battle cry/combo/charge heavy tempo rogue. A lot of tempo rogues have used it including myself, it is usually a choice between cold blood and shadow step. It is preference really : D
I think you might be underrating the Nerub'ar Weblord a little bit. he slows down zoos (Abusive Sergeant, Flame Imp) and he's a great body against zoo as well. With Cold Blood, he cannot be ignored at all. I've been playing with him, and people seem to always try to kill him as soon as they can. Another reason it keeps tempo in your favor is, as a rogue, you play with Combos, which are essentially battlecries, but remain unaffected. I've toyed with using just 1 so far, and I like the results. Also, I prefer Defias Ringleader over Haunted Creeper, but that's just me. I used the Haunted Creeper for a while, but he's just too weak to do anything, even if he does stick around. Most of the time I barely know what I'm talking about I guess, so maybe you can disregard this haha.
Yeah, against zoo, the weblord gives you a nice advantage. If the meta is very zoo heavy, I think it's worth it. After all, it will give you tempo early game.
Tempo rogue is considered a counter to zoo, it has been an established counter for a while now. It does not need extra power against zoo, on top of that there are better 2 drops. If Tempo rogue wasn't so strong against zoo already, and was lacking solid 2 drops you could consider the weblord, but that is just not the case.
Tempo rogue eats zoo alive for real. All the 1 and 2 health minions are easy pickings for tempo rogue. Even the few 3 health minions are eaten up by deadly poison. The 4 health minions are easily taken out by eviscerate, and if you draw into blade flurry that's pretty much game. I will up load a video of my own playing against zoolock at some point.
Hmm...I found I only beat zoo if I get a perfect opening hand and decent draws afterwards hah. If I somehow don't get Backstab, Deadly Poison, or any early board control (via Argent Squire or Loot Hoarder), I just lose. On the other hand, I beat mana ramp druids no problem, mainly because I run an assassinate and The Black Knight. If I get all those cards you mentioned at the end there at the perfect time, then yeah, that's basically game. I believe I am the unluckiest Hearthstone player though, and I do not have the heart of the cards on my side haha.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
Hmm...I found I only beat zoo if I get a perfect opening hand and decent draws afterwards hah. If I somehow don't get Backstab, Deadly Poison, or any early board control (via Argent Squire or Loot Hoarder), I just lose. On the other hand, I beat mana ramp druids no problem, mainly because I run an assassinate and The Black Knight. If I get all those cards you mentioned at the end there at the perfect time, then yeah, that's basically game. I believe I am the unluckiest Hearthstone player though, and I do not have the heart of the cards on my side haha.
I recently ditched argent squires myself because they just don't pack enough punch. Try removing them for an extra 2 drop or removal, trust me it works out. Also Black Knight and assassinate is excessive, You might want to exchange one out for an owl. That might help your curve and owl is still useful against Druid, and it is useful against Zoo with all the buffs Golems.
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Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
Maybe I'll try it out hah. I'm not sure if you just went by the deck I linked in my sig, but I think I do actually have an Ironbeak Owl now in my deck. You need them, with all those eggs running around. I mainly like the Argent Squires as Cold Blood targets, though I understand your reasoning about them not packing enough punch. I used to toy with Worgen Infiltrators, maybe I could try them again? Even an Elven archer could help I think. It's always a work in progress! Haha.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
why leeroy on your first deck above? if you're playing tempo rogue, cut it out. its a dead card most of the time. you need playable cards all the time.
Leeroy is mainly there as a very strong (and necessary, imo) finisher. In some cases, he works as a decent taunt removal too, particularly if you have Blade Flurry in your hand (or Fan of Knives, if you choose to run that instead). I think his strength is needed for one particular late game finishing combo (Leeroy + 2x Cold Blood + 2x Eviscerate).
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
why leeroy on your first deck above? if you're playing tempo rogue, cut it out. its a dead card most of the time. you need playable cards all the time.
This is actually a very good question/point he is making and is something that needs to be addressed. We all know what rogue can do with leeroy, but as a tempo rogue giving your opponent extra minions is usually a big no no. So why even consider leeroy?
Well if you look at tempo rogue it lacks one thing, big swingers. You cannot consider 4 damage from your Argent commander to be a big swinger. Why do you need a big swinger? well agianst classes like Mage, Paladin, Priest, Druid and Warrior they can heal/armor up a huge chunk of health. In most cases its just to much health for your smaller minions to deal with. In this case you need something that can run in and hit your opponent hard, Leeroy is that swinger.
Even against hyper aggro decks you can win a face race with them as long as you protect your health early game. Tempo Rogue can burst out a ton of damage, remember the rogue's thing is burst damage. Mid-game there is no other class that can put out as much damage as rogue. On turn 6 is you have 1 minion out, lets say its a 2/1 and you have a 1/2 dagger equipped. Deadly Poison + Face + Blade flurry = 6 damage to opponent + 3 AOE damage to minions, Follow up with eviscerate and Cold Blood your minion, in 1 turn you have dealt 16 damage to your opponent. When I play hyper aggro decks play control up until mid-game then I face race because I know mid-game I can pump out twice as much damage as they can. Leeroy helps with this strategy to, he is great in the aggro match up to.
Leeroy is a huge asset in both aggro and Control match ups. Lastly as Anatak said he can be used to clear taunts or other huge minions if necessary. With tempo rogue he is a very versatile card. Turn 6 Blade flurry Leeroy is not a bad play with you need to clear a minion with him.
Here is something I've been working on in ladder (Rank 5-3 about a ~55% winrate so not stellar). It's using a lot of the core concepts of the Miracle/Aggro finisher of 14-18 dmg in hand around 8 mana while (trying) to keep the board locked while the combo builds up. Pretty basic rogue-y stuff but a little different from the stock and standard Miracle/Cancer rogue that is so prevalent on the ladder now. A couple of the cards that aren't usually played in the tempo, or in rogue in general and my thoughts on them. Acolyte of Pain Easily my worst matchup is the druid, this guy does a little to address this but he'll force a Wraith/Swipe/Silence pretty early game. That's good for my SI:7 and Argent Squires. He's also here to help with the card out problem I've been facing, if the Leeroy/Cold Blood/Evis/Shadowstep combo doesn't come out right or needs to get used for other purposes he can sometimes help offset that less than ideal card use. I'm not sure on him though. I just don't feel like Harvests are that great with the Anub'ar Ambusher being played right next in line. I'm sure better options will come out or I'm missing something obvious but I've had a little success with this guy, I could see him being shifted to something else though. I'm just not sure what. Nerub'ar Weblord This was chosen over a huge number of two drops Loot/Fairy/Haunted because it does something magic with Cold Blooded. It's also godawful annoying to deal with for paladins and priests, not super common on ladder but they're prevalent enough that this guy does work in most games. Nearly everyone runs Azure as well so being able to put him on lock for a turn or two is a solid play, as is the Leeroy burst shut down. Also this guy laughs in the face of Zoo, two of these and you will beat Zoo about the face and neck. Sprint I'm having a hard time keeping a threatening hand coming into late game, and without any solid draw source (Other than the Acolyte who is temperamental) I feel like this in a 1 slot really does some work setting up the last few points of damage, but it is a hail Mary play. You can put yourself extremely back footed if this is your only play. However the number of low cost spells in the deck will usually mean you get some use out of it pretty quickly. Assassin's Blade It's a lot of damage, and it plays well with the Ambusher. I think this has carried more games than anything else.
Nax Tempo Rogue Tips
This is for Rogues who are not use to tempo rogue and got into rogue when Miracle/Molly/aggro where in. This can even be used for more experienced players. Prior to the Tink and Nat Pagle nerf Tempo rogue was amazing, Shadow stepping Tinkmaster Overspark was awesome, along with a cold blooded Nat Pagle.
So why talk about tempo rogue? well Come tuesday MIracle rogue is going to be in a load of trouble. The Loatheb isn't even the biggest issue, its the 2 new taunts which are absolutely amazing, in combinatoin with Loatheb. Even with this rogue will be fine, because the new cards help out rogues mid-range variant tempo rogue. Now why isn't tempo rogue as popular as the other variants right now? simple, Ramp Druid and Fast Druid. Tempo rogue's use low drops and removal to secure the board early to mid-game, and with druid pump out giant minions mid game with an OTK follow up, Tempo rogue just couldn't keep up. Not saying it wasn't possible to get legend or do good in tournaments with a tempo rogue, but you had to be a masochist to do it.
So what is different now? well the new nax cards are exactly what the tempo rogue needed. Cards with more durability that would last longer and didn't hurt its match ups with aggro decks. The cards I am referring to are Haunted Creeper, Sludge Belcher, Spectral Knight and Unstable Ghoul.
Links and Articles
I am going to link some old post and articles on tempo rogue to give everyone some more info, and then I am going to go into the new cards. What to use and what not to use.
Noxious on Tempo Rogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNDT3zCWDcA#t=134
My Tempo Rogue : http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/28976-darklingninjas-tempo-rogue
TheChiv's Tempo Rogue : http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/class-discussion/rogue/10063-thechivs-chemotherapy-tempo-rogue-deck
Spark's Tempo Rogue : http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/42278-spark-tempo-rogue-3-managrind-eu-24
So if you looked at that you get the gist of it, here are some of the new cards I will divide them into yes, no and maybe. (cards that are not listed shouldn't even be considered, the no section is for cards that people might put in). If you want to know what non-nax cards are used in tempo rogue click the links above, also feel free to ask about nax cards that I didn't mention if you want to know why I didn't put them in here.
NO ! ! !! !
Echoing Ooze - Maybe for aggro rogue or that other variant I am working on, but there are better 2 drops that will be more consistent for you.
Nerub'ar Weblord - No, once again better more consistent 2 drops. This only works against decks with lots of battle cries, which means its just a small body if your playing a deck that doesn't run them.
Shade of Naxxramas - No, this card is only good if you can drop it on turn 2 or 3 before it can get AOE'ed. Anyways rogue has the best 3 drop in the game SI:7 Agent. So you don't have to worry about your 3 drops.
Zombie Chow - I might regret saying this, but no. This is a more of an aggro card, because even with the heal aggro can usually make up for the damage. Not Tempo rogue, a tempo rogue does not want to give their opponent anything extra.
Nerubian Egg - No, no please don't. Why do I see this card in rogue decks so often? You really want to burn your Backstab or SI:7 Agent on this just to get a 4/4? please do not run this as a tempo rogue. Even cold blooded it is questionable. As a tempo rogue you want something on the board that is going to get you momentum, not something that sits there waiting.
Dancing Swords - No,same reason as the other 3 drops, your not desperate for a good 3 drop and you don't want to give your opponent anything extra. For aggro rogue or Mill rogue this might be a fine card though.
Deathlord - you want tempo, anything that gives your opponent tempo or board presence is bad.
Feugen - Don't get me wrong, great body on this card, would be considered for the 5 drop spot if there wasn't two even better 5 drops coming out along with it. You just have way better options for your 5 drops.
Maybe ?
Baron Rivendare - If mid-range tempo death rattle becomes a thing than yes. Otherwise I would say no. By becoming a thing I mean if Rogue's death rattle deck is the strongest mid-range death rattle deck. You don't want to be the second strongest death rattle deck or worse, make sure to keep with what rogue is best at. Though at the same time don't be afraid to experiment.
Undertaker - This is a wierd one, if your tempo rogue runs lots of death rattles, like Loot Hoarder, Haunted Creeper, Harvest Golem, Sludge Belcher, Unstable Ghoul and Bloodmage Thalnos you might consider putting this guy in. If you think about it chances are one of those cards is coming down in the next turn or 2 so you could have a nicely buffed minion on your hands. Once again if you have lots of early game death rattles this is a card to consider. Even with this there might be better more consistent choices.
Loatheb - Okay why a maybe? well if your running into classes that don't use many spells like Zoolock than no. Another reason is because your 5 drops are about to get crowded, so your have to choose carefully. You do not want to run 7-8 5 drops, even 5-6 is pushing it. Though on the other hand it does hinder your opponent from gaining tempo with spells, so if your light on 5 drops this card might be the one.
Maexxna - Wierd, it looks like a great tempo card on the surface. Though it is very slow and priest can take it at any time. The new cards really support priest and I believe we will see a rise in them, so I wouldn't be running a card that helps them. Though it has a sturdy body and unless silenced it is guaranteed to take out a 2 or more minions for you. Though when silenced its pretty useless. If the meta calls for it, otherwise I would go with a better 6 drop.
Unstable Ghoul [/card]- If Loathed was made to counter Miracle rogue than unstable Ghoul Was made to counter Zoolock. Why maybe when I said it was great above? well that's the thing, it can be great, it can also be a real pain. Control decks will use the death rattle to their advantage and use it to kill off your weaker minions. The [card]Harvest Golem, Haunted Creeper, Argent Squire and Loot Hoarder are all very weak to this. When you want minions to stay on the board to keep tempo this can really screw you. On the other hand, this card is amazing against aggro and Zoo. So if the meta is crawling with aggressive decks and Zoolock put this in, its also a great side board to have when you run into aggro decks in tournaments that allow side boarding.
Anub'ar Ambusher - Similar to Undertaker, in that it should only be considered if your deck runs a lot of battle cries. It hurts your tempo when it dies, but if the minion coming back to your hand has a battle cry you can take advantage of again than he could be amazing. This being said, he still could be very inconsistent. You have to make sure you don't put him down onto a board where you cannot take advantage of him. He is a risky card regardless.
Kel'Thuzad - Might end up being a staple in a lot of control decks. He might be great in tempo rogue, he might not. You need to test him out, the thing is unless you already have a board developed he does nothing. So if your already winning he is great, if not he is just a big body. I personally would rather have a card that helps me win that keeps me wining. Even with this, he could be a great card for tempo rogue against control decks that run huge minions, you could trade your board into the minions without the fear of losing all tempo. Just have to wait and see.
YES ! !
Haunted Creeper - Great card for tempo rogue, anything that can help you maintain board presence is awesome. Some people will even burn a silence on this guy, which is great for you, because I am sure there are cards in your deck that are word to have silenced : D
Sludge Belcher - In my opinion the new best taunt in the game. Yes just like every other taunt it is weak to silence, even so its a 4/7 with taunt for 5 mana. On top of its great stats it takes 2 hits to get rid of. Regardless this minion is a 2 for 1 trade. It either requires a silence and a minion or 2 minions to take out. This is a great tempo card, and should be used in every tempo rogue as your new taunt.
Spectral Knight - Solid Body and immunity to spell removal, along with surviving any of the games default AOE's (Non buffed or shadow flamming a crazy strong minion) makes this minion a go to card for tempo rogue. You opponent is going to have to either use their face or trade minions into it to clear it in most cases.
Here are some examples of what Tempo Rogue Nax decks might look like, I cannot say for sure if any of these will work until tested but an example is never bad.
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loatheb is almost must for tempo rogue beacuse mages and priests can clear ur field or u need survive from pyroblast so its good card for countering them. + haunted creeper isnt good in rogue if u dont run it in miracle. In miracle haunted creeper would be much better than in tempo.
Living and die by the blade
Loatheb is just a lot of 5 drops, but it might work who knows, that is why I have it in maybe. Its completely useless against zoo. Haunted creeper for miracle? Ummm........ No? No way dude, Miracle is all about spell removal and card draw to get your hands on the Leeroy combo, Haunted Creeper does nothing for that. Unless your desperate to get a body for cold blood, and if so your not playing miracle right. Haunted creeper is great for tempo rogue, tempo rogue is all about keeping bodies on the board, Haunted creeper does that for you. There are a lot of Minions with 5 and 3 health. Backstab and SI:7 only do 2 damage, Haunted creeper is great for an efficient trade. With eviscerate it is the same thing, that last damage can be taken care of by the spiders. They trade very efficiently in rogue, and keep bodies on the board, its perfect for tempo.
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Thank you : D
Oh yeah silence will be every where cannot play around it now a days, just got to make sure you have enough minions to bait out the silences.
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I run rag from time to time in my tempo rogue, He can be really good if you can secure board presence and ensure your opponents board is clear on turn 8. He can also be good against control decks, its definitely a card to consider when making a tempo rogue deck
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rag is just too random
Living and die by the blade
He can be yes, though tempo rogue is so good at controlling the board it is not that hard to get him on a clear board and secure 8 damage to your opponents face. He is also good if you can clear everything but the minion you want to kill. Rag is much better against control decks though, I tend to use him when the meta is heavy with control, especially at higher ranks.
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Rag can get an easy kill on doomguard on a solid finisher because zoo vs tempo rogue tend to be longer games. Also been thinking more about what you said on Loatheb and I will be testing it out on tuesday, might be good if you can predict when a board clear is coming
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This is the "Concept", I'm currently thinking about:
Maybe Cult Master instead of Gnomish Inventor though.
I'm not sure about Spectral Knight so far. As you said, tthere are a lot of nice 5-dtops. But the most difficult thing will be to get enough draw as the Azure Drakes (another 5-drop) will probably be removed. Absolutely yes to Sludge Belcher btw. But why don't you plan to run Defender of Argus. With all the Deathrattlle minions you can be sure, that there will be spmething to buff next turn. I think he is a must.
- senti
I think you might be underrating the Nerub'ar Weblord a little bit. he slows down zoos (Abusive Sergeant, Flame Imp) and he's a great body against zoo as well. With Cold Blood, he cannot be ignored at all. I've been playing with him, and people seem to always try to kill him as soon as they can. Another reason it keeps tempo in your favor is, as a rogue, you play with Combos, which are essentially battlecries, but remain unaffected. I've toyed with using just 1 so far, and I like the results. Also, I prefer Defias Ringleader over Haunted Creeper, but that's just me. I used the Haunted Creeper for a while, but he's just too weak to do anything, even if he does stick around. Most of the time I barely know what I'm talking about I guess, so maybe you can disregard this haha.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
Yeah, against zoo, the weblord gives you a nice advantage. If the meta is very zoo heavy, I think it's worth it. After all, it will give you tempo early game.
Cult master is to fragile for tempo rogue You want minions that will stay on the board as long as possible, especially mid-game. The reason loot hoarder works is because he is draw and early game. Though cult is draw, as a mid-range deck you want your mid-range minions to be durable and/or pack a punch. Gnomish may not pack a punch but it is durable and a guaranteed card draw. You cannot guarantee card draw with cult.
I agree the more I think about Loatheb, the more I like it.
Shadow step is a solid card for a battle cry/combo/charge heavy tempo rogue. A lot of tempo rogues have used it including myself, it is usually a choice between cold blood and shadow step. It is preference really : D
Tempo rogue is considered a counter to zoo, it has been an established counter for a while now. It does not need extra power against zoo, on top of that there are better 2 drops. If Tempo rogue wasn't so strong against zoo already, and was lacking solid 2 drops you could consider the weblord, but that is just not the case.
Tempo rogue eats zoo alive for real. All the 1 and 2 health minions are easy pickings for tempo rogue. Even the few 3 health minions are eaten up by deadly poison. The 4 health minions are easily taken out by eviscerate, and if you draw into blade flurry that's pretty much game. I will up load a video of my own playing against zoolock at some point.
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Hmm...I found I only beat zoo if I get a perfect opening hand and decent draws afterwards hah. If I somehow don't get Backstab, Deadly Poison, or any early board control (via Argent Squire or Loot Hoarder), I just lose. On the other hand, I beat mana ramp druids no problem, mainly because I run an assassinate and The Black Knight. If I get all those cards you mentioned at the end there at the perfect time, then yeah, that's basically game. I believe I am the unluckiest Hearthstone player though, and I do not have the heart of the cards on my side haha.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
I recently ditched argent squires myself because they just don't pack enough punch. Try removing them for an extra 2 drop or removal, trust me it works out. Also Black Knight and assassinate is excessive, You might want to exchange one out for an owl. That might help your curve and owl is still useful against Druid, and it is useful against Zoo with all the buffs Golems.
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Maybe I'll try it out hah. I'm not sure if you just went by the deck I linked in my sig, but I think I do actually have an Ironbeak Owl now in my deck. You need them, with all those eggs running around. I mainly like the Argent Squires as Cold Blood targets, though I understand your reasoning about them not packing enough punch. I used to toy with Worgen Infiltrators, maybe I could try them again? Even an Elven archer could help I think. It's always a work in progress! Haha.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
why leeroy on your first deck above? if you're playing tempo rogue, cut it out. its a dead card most of the time. you need playable cards all the time.
Leeroy is mainly there as a very strong (and necessary, imo) finisher. In some cases, he works as a decent taunt removal too, particularly if you have Blade Flurry in your hand (or Fan of Knives, if you choose to run that instead). I think his strength is needed for one particular late game finishing combo (Leeroy + 2x Cold Blood + 2x Eviscerate).
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
This is actually a very good question/point he is making and is something that needs to be addressed. We all know what rogue can do with leeroy, but as a tempo rogue giving your opponent extra minions is usually a big no no. So why even consider leeroy?
Well if you look at tempo rogue it lacks one thing, big swingers. You cannot consider 4 damage from your Argent commander to be a big swinger. Why do you need a big swinger? well agianst classes like Mage, Paladin, Priest, Druid and Warrior they can heal/armor up a huge chunk of health. In most cases its just to much health for your smaller minions to deal with. In this case you need something that can run in and hit your opponent hard, Leeroy is that swinger.
Even against hyper aggro decks you can win a face race with them as long as you protect your health early game. Tempo Rogue can burst out a ton of damage, remember the rogue's thing is burst damage. Mid-game there is no other class that can put out as much damage as rogue. On turn 6 is you have 1 minion out, lets say its a 2/1 and you have a 1/2 dagger equipped. Deadly Poison + Face + Blade flurry = 6 damage to opponent + 3 AOE damage to minions, Follow up with eviscerate and Cold Blood your minion, in 1 turn you have dealt 16 damage to your opponent. When I play hyper aggro decks play control up until mid-game then I face race because I know mid-game I can pump out twice as much damage as they can. Leeroy helps with this strategy to, he is great in the aggro match up to.
Leeroy is a huge asset in both aggro and Control match ups. Lastly as Anatak said he can be used to clear taunts or other huge minions if necessary. With tempo rogue he is a very versatile card. Turn 6 Blade flurry Leeroy is not a bad play with you need to clear a minion with him.
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Here is something I've been working on in ladder (Rank 5-3 about a ~55% winrate so not stellar). It's using a lot of the core concepts of the Miracle/Aggro finisher of 14-18 dmg in hand around 8 mana while (trying) to keep the board locked while the combo builds up. Pretty basic rogue-y stuff but a little different from the stock and standard Miracle/Cancer rogue that is so prevalent on the ladder now. A couple of the cards that aren't usually played in the tempo, or in rogue in general and my thoughts on them.
Acolyte of Pain
Easily my worst matchup is the druid, this guy does a little to address this but he'll force a Wraith/Swipe/Silence pretty early game. That's good for my SI:7 and Argent Squires. He's also here to help with the card out problem I've been facing, if the Leeroy/Cold Blood/Evis/Shadowstep combo doesn't come out right or needs to get used for other purposes he can sometimes help offset that less than ideal card use. I'm not sure on him though. I just don't feel like Harvests are that great with the Anub'ar Ambusher being played right next in line. I'm sure better options will come out or I'm missing something obvious but I've had a little success with this guy, I could see him being shifted to something else though. I'm just not sure what.
Nerub'ar Weblord
This was chosen over a huge number of two drops Loot/Fairy/Haunted because it does something magic with Cold Blooded. It's also godawful annoying to deal with for paladins and priests, not super common on ladder but they're prevalent enough that this guy does work in most games. Nearly everyone runs Azure as well so being able to put him on lock for a turn or two is a solid play, as is the Leeroy burst shut down. Also this guy laughs in the face of Zoo, two of these and you will beat Zoo about the face and neck.
Sprint
I'm having a hard time keeping a threatening hand coming into late game, and without any solid draw source (Other than the Acolyte who is temperamental) I feel like this in a 1 slot really does some work setting up the last few points of damage, but it is a hail Mary play. You can put yourself extremely back footed if this is your only play. However the number of low cost spells in the deck will usually mean you get some use out of it pretty quickly.
Assassin's Blade
It's a lot of damage, and it plays well with the Ambusher. I think this has carried more games than anything else.
Undertaker = Argent Squire, until he is released.
- senti