It looks like Dragon decks have just been given quite a significant buff in TGT. We've got a new 4 drop to replace the liability that is Hungry Dragon and a new legendary.
So it's time to get back to making the deck everyone wanted to work, finally work!
This is the new, Grand Tournament, Dragodin deck. Built upon my previous Dragon deck, currently the highest rated Dragon paladin deck here on Hearthpwn, this revision uses the new tools given by TGT to fill in the holes that made BRM Dragon decks so lacking. Thankfully, those holes are now largely patched with a new 4 drop in Twilight Guardian to replace Hungry Dragon, new synergistic board clear in Chillmaw and new "healing" in Tuskar Jouster and Bolf Ramshield.
Well, simply going off of what I had learned before while playing this deck, is that you should drop Solemn Vigil and Volcanic Drake and add in 2x Azure Drake. You really need a way to deal with Patron more easily, and Azure Drakes both have like a 2 in 1 of both of those cards. We'll see how these new cards play out, but I really prefer to have double Muster and Aldor in my decks.
The only only only reasons to include Azure Drake is to deal with Patron, so yeah until that deck gets hopefully nerfed, I can totally accept subbing that in for eg. Volcanic Drake. Have replaced it for the Belcher because we have two additional taunts and Chillmaw vs. aggro now.
But Solemn Vigil is still criminally underrated and synergises very well with the hero power and Muster for Battle, and Paladin needs the card draw.
If Patron was to be nerfed to manageable levels then I don't think an Azure Drake would be justifiable, we just can't get much value out of the SP in most cases. But for sure that Volcanic Drake spot is a perfect spot to put tech in eg. Harrison Jones or Loatheb.
Have high hopes for Twilight Guardian, if any one card could make Dragon Paladin high tier then it's that. Couldn't have asked for more!
Can you explain your reason behind including Bolf Ramshield? As I see it it is a worse Healbot through and through, the only way to really get value out of this card is to have some health buffs like in a priest deck. So I'd replace it with an Antique Healbot.
I like the idea of wiping the board with enter the colesium/deathwing and winning off of the hero power I feel like Justicar Trueheart really makes the paladin hero power powerful enough to be a win con on its own.
Can you explain your reason behind including Bolf Ramshield? As I see it it is a worse Healbot through and through, the only way to really get value out of this card is to have some health buffs like in a priest deck. So I'd replace it with an Antique Healbot.
Tuskar Jouster should theoretically be better than Healbot in Dragon Paladin. Against aggro you will usually win the joust, against control you don't really need to but the 5/5 is a lot better than the 3/3 body of the Healbot.
Bolf has added synergy in classes with weapons basically, it just remains to be seen how strong he is, but aggro was the primary weakness of this deck and a 3/9 body with that ability should be good against aggro. He lets you raise your hp above 30 which is basically why Control Paladin isn't the staple CW is. Obviously the big question is, does the fact that they can kill him without taking damage from him a deal breaker for this card. Possibly.
It could be that Twilight Guardian is enough anti-aggro that we don't need to run Bolf, in which case we have plenty of alternatives given Dragon Consort. I think Alex is still a very useful card in this deck.
Sorry but I dont think bolf is good in this deck and also not good against aggro. Against aggro its basically a: 6 mana heal for 9, it doesnt do anything against their board and most likely dies on their turn by just going face. Id rather replace it with a second tuskaar jouster.
Also, evem though I like eadrid, I would still prefer Tirion over him.
Enter the ColiseumI am still not 100% convinced, against aggro decks its definately great, just gonna have to try it out and see (as a one of I think its fine though)
otherwise I think the deck is solid. Man I hope dragon pala finally becomes viable (although in the low ranks it still works quite well now)
ps. burning pala i dont like your deck, too heavy in the end game and no early game control
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“My armor is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!” - Smaug
If we are to create a deck that capitalises on end game minions we need a way to survive the early game, and steer clear from midrange win conditions, either through healing or board control. The fact that you'll play a big dragon means nothing most of the times, unless you have already won.
That said, I love the mid-cost dragons, and I think a version of the Midarange can be created working with the 4-6 mana dragons, along with Corruptors. However Zombie Chows or the new Joust 1/2, Minibots and Musters can't be neglected.
Sorry but I dont think bolf is good in this deck and also not good against aggro. Against aggro its basically a: 6 mana heal for 9, it doesnt do anything against their board and most likely dies on their turn by just going face. Id rather replace it with a second tuskaar jouster.
A second Jouster sounds reasonable.
We have to ask ourselves now then, do we want that spot for healing/taunt, card draw, removal or a win condition.
We don't have a lot of healing (1x Jouster an 2x Truesilver) but we do have 2x new midgame taunts and Chillmaw. The question is, is this enough.
Win condition wise, as Paladin's we don't have one, and after TGT that remains the case. We have to outlast and out value our opponents. Sera is a pseudo-win condition, Alex can help seal games and heal, so imo I feel like she might be able to replace Bolf.
Removal wise we're looking ok I think. Equality + Consecrate, Coliseum (this is an absolutely sick card man, and with cards like Palestress and Varian around it could be strong against control too) and pseudo-removal like Aldor and Eadric. Plus Trusilvers. Probably plenty.
Card draw remains an issue for Paladin imo but the effect of getting just one 0-2 mana Solemn Vigil is massive in my experience with Dragon Paladin. It's really not hard to achieve, and worst comes to the worst you can play it for full cost. Then there's one Azure Drake atm. Chromaggus kind of but not really. All in all not great but not many decks have great draw - so not a priority imo.
In summary:
• Totally agree that +1 Jouster is reasonable replacement
• I want to throw Alex out there, based on my time with Dragodin it's a good fit
• If Bolf doesn't work in this deck then he's probably a shit card lol
hmmm... yeah Alex could work, in aggro matchups it could give you the extra heal you need and possibly help you finish off your opponent. Although note: Alex is the only 7+ atk minion in your deck (bgh says hi), maybe better replace her with Tirion? As you say yourself this deck has no real finisher and rather wants to outvalue your opponent and lets face it Tirion is value incorporate and I still believe with 8 dragons the sinergy should still be good.
Otherwise I really like this deck, potentially ironbeak is also a bit of a tech choice depending on the meta and could be changed.
The thing that doesnt quite convince me yet about coliseum is that, atleast if I think about my control warrior games brawl is quite often (if not mostly) used to remove their biggest threat (and hope for them to get out of it only a low value minion or a friendly for you). I can see this card being a bit of a dead card in Control matchups but yeah I do see the potential you talk about, it just has to be tested.
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“My armor is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!” - Smaug
What is Hearthstone to you? A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
Just looking at the deck lists posted here we can make out the 'core' of the Dragon Paladin deck, but I added some comments/questions to a few choices:
That makes 26 cards! Now which of those cards would be the most likely to be NOT essential? Did I miss some cards you think HAVE to be in a good Dragon Paladin deck?
Just looking at the deck lists posted here we can make out the 'core' of the Dragon Paladin deck, but I added some comments/questions to a few choices:
That makes 26 cards! Now which of those cards would be the most likely to be NOT essential? Did I miss some cards you think HAVE to be in a good Dragon Paladin deck?
Well Nefarian and Ysera are pretty essential I would say Lay on Hands would be the only card draw in the deck so it's quite important too.
So I guess you'd have 1-3 free slots after that, 3 if you only run 1 Equality and 1 Tuskarr Jouster. Probably good to use that on Sylvanas Windrunner, Dr. Boom and maybe another 4-drop dragon, I think Hungry Dragon would be better than Twilight Drake most of the time, but maybe there is another choice too?
What is Hearthstone to you? A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
It seems like about 2 high cmc dragons are good for the deck, but which one is probably up to personal preference. Ysera, Chromaggus, Nefarian, Alexstrasza are all good cards to choose from.
It seems like about 2 high cmc dragons are good for the deck, but which one is probably up to personal preference. Ysera, Chromaggus, Nefarian, Alexstrasza are all good cards to choose from.
Yeah there's a bit of flexibility here which is nice.
Personally I go with Ysera for the pseudo-card draw, as I don't rate LoH in this deck, you just have too much to do with your mana to maintain board control - and Alexstrasza, because as Paladins we have awful burst potential so being able to just focus on controlling the board and dropping her at the end to bring lethal within reach is great, plus there are absolutely times against aggro when she can heal you out of lethal in time for you to clear the board.
I wouldn't run two Aldors and Eadric and I feel like Eadric is better with joust cards plus could be important in dealing with cards like Aviana, Varian and Palestress.
I also wouldn't run 2x equality and Enter the Coliseum, that's too much imo and the big opportunity Coliseum gives us is to drop and equality and a consecrate, wrap them up into one card (kind of) and free up space for another card.
I'm sure you all know the pain of being desperate to draw a nice chunky minion and bam, it's a useless equality!
Also by the time you get to play Alexstrasza you've mostly dealt quite a lot of damage to your opponent already and you certainly wont need it defensively, would probably decrease your health at that point.
What is Hearthstone to you? A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
The thing that doesnt quite convince me yet about coliseum is that, atleast if I think about my control warrior games brawl is quite often (if not mostly) used to remove their biggest threat (and hope for them to get out of it only a low value minion or a friendly for you). I can see this card being a bit of a dead card in Control matchups but yeah I do see the potential you talk about, it just has to be tested.
Coliseum's strength is against decks like Zoo and Mech Mage, where a brawl could often leave you without any minion and the opponent with one, ie. no tempo switch.
Equality + Conc removes their board, but then you have a probably chunky minion of yours with just 1hp.
Coliseum let's you keep your chunky minion untouched, removes all of their minions bar one, and hopefully deal with that minion using yours.
If you want to deal with just one o their minions then equality/BGH/owl would seem to me the solutions this deck provides, whereas Coliseum is for those others occasions.
On the question of Aldor Peacekeeper, I would tend to favour 2x because of the utility that goes with Enter the Coliseum. I think being able to choose the "highest attack minion" strategically will be powerful.
Also by the time you get to play Alexstrasza you've mostly dealt quite a lot of damage to your opponent already and you certainly wont need it defensively, would probably decrease your health at that point.
In my deck the flexible spots are for Lay on Hands and Solemn Vigil for card draw, also if you play Chromaggus off of Dragon Consort your opponent has to deal with a 6 mana 6/8 or I'll get at least one draw from him. The main advantage over the other big dragons is his 8 mana cost, this allows him to be played where the other dragon's won't work.
EDIT: Solemn Vigil works great after (Equality ->) Consecration against Zoo, Mech, Hunter, Face-Pala, (Patron)
Solemn vigil sux, even more in control decks. It is a conditionnal 1 for 2 draw. First of all, you run a deck without combos and without heal, you need stability so you don't need it, then the card sux heavily anyway, may be a thing in the future if otk or "freeze" paladins happen. If you want cycling, better playing acolyte...
Acolyte has pretty bad synergy with Paladin, at least in this form.
Solemn Vigil really doesn't suck at all. Yes it's somewhat situational, but drawing two cards for free, which is usually not hard at some point in the game after you have drawn it, is super swingy and totally worth it.
And yeah I agree with DisRapt0r, Chromaggus is kinda classic in Dragodin because it's such a strong turn 6 after a turn 5 Consort. I've found it very hard to combo with Solemn Vigil but you don't really need that for it to be worth playing on turn 6.. It's a 6/8 that has to be removed or you will gain massive card advantage.
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It looks like Dragon decks have just been given quite a significant buff in TGT. We've got a new 4 drop to replace the liability that is Hungry Dragon and a new legendary.
So it's time to get back to making the deck everyone wanted to work, finally work!
Let me know if you have any suggestions!
Well, simply going off of what I had learned before while playing this deck, is that you should drop Solemn Vigil and Volcanic Drake and add in 2x Azure Drake. You really need a way to deal with Patron more easily, and Azure Drakes both have like a 2 in 1 of both of those cards. We'll see how these new cards play out, but I really prefer to have double Muster and Aldor in my decks.
I have big hopes for the new Legendary :D
Wow. Just... wow.
The only only only reasons to include Azure Drake is to deal with Patron, so yeah until that deck gets hopefully nerfed, I can totally accept subbing that in for eg. Volcanic Drake. Have replaced it for the Belcher because we have two additional taunts and Chillmaw vs. aggro now.
But Solemn Vigil is still criminally underrated and synergises very well with the hero power and Muster for Battle, and Paladin needs the card draw.
If Patron was to be nerfed to manageable levels then I don't think an Azure Drake would be justifiable, we just can't get much value out of the SP in most cases. But for sure that Volcanic Drake spot is a perfect spot to put tech in eg. Harrison Jones or Loatheb.
Have high hopes for Twilight Guardian, if any one card could make Dragon Paladin high tier then it's that. Couldn't have asked for more!
Can you explain your reason behind including Bolf Ramshield? As I see it it is a worse Healbot through and through, the only way to really get value out of this card is to have some health buffs like in a priest deck. So I'd replace it with an Antique Healbot.
professional pilferers prefer proper preparation
Heres what I came up with.
I like the idea of wiping the board with enter the colesium/deathwing and winning off of the hero power I feel like Justicar Trueheart really makes the paladin hero power powerful enough to be a win con on its own.
Tuskar Jouster should theoretically be better than Healbot in Dragon Paladin. Against aggro you will usually win the joust, against control you don't really need to but the 5/5 is a lot better than the 3/3 body of the Healbot.
Bolf has added synergy in classes with weapons basically, it just remains to be seen how strong he is, but aggro was the primary weakness of this deck and a 3/9 body with that ability should be good against aggro. He lets you raise your hp above 30 which is basically why Control Paladin isn't the staple CW is. Obviously the big question is, does the fact that they can kill him without taking damage from him a deal breaker for this card. Possibly.
It could be that Twilight Guardian is enough anti-aggro that we don't need to run Bolf, in which case we have plenty of alternatives given Dragon Consort. I think Alex is still a very useful card in this deck.
Sorry but I dont think bolf is good in this deck and also not good against aggro. Against aggro its basically a: 6 mana heal for 9, it doesnt do anything against their board and most likely dies on their turn by just going face. Id rather replace it with a second tuskaar jouster.
Also, evem though I like eadrid, I would still prefer Tirion over him.
Enter the ColiseumI am still not 100% convinced, against aggro decks its definately great, just gonna have to try it out and see (as a one of I think its fine though)
otherwise I think the deck is solid. Man I hope dragon pala finally becomes viable (although in the low ranks it still works quite well now)
ps. burning pala i dont like your deck, too heavy in the end game and no early game control
“My armor is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!” - Smaug
If we are to create a deck that capitalises on end game minions we need a way to survive the early game, and steer clear from midrange win conditions, either through healing or board control. The fact that you'll play a big dragon means nothing most of the times, unless you have already won.
That said, I love the mid-cost dragons, and I think a version of the Midarange can be created working with the 4-6 mana dragons, along with Corruptors. However Zombie Chows or the new Joust 1/2, Minibots and Musters can't be neglected.
A second Jouster sounds reasonable.
We have to ask ourselves now then, do we want that spot for healing/taunt, card draw, removal or a win condition.
We don't have a lot of healing (1x Jouster an 2x Truesilver) but we do have 2x new midgame taunts and Chillmaw. The question is, is this enough.
Win condition wise, as Paladin's we don't have one, and after TGT that remains the case. We have to outlast and out value our opponents. Sera is a pseudo-win condition, Alex can help seal games and heal, so imo I feel like she might be able to replace Bolf.
Removal wise we're looking ok I think. Equality + Consecrate, Coliseum (this is an absolutely sick card man, and with cards like Palestress and Varian around it could be strong against control too) and pseudo-removal like Aldor and Eadric. Plus Trusilvers. Probably plenty.
Card draw remains an issue for Paladin imo but the effect of getting just one 0-2 mana Solemn Vigil is massive in my experience with Dragon Paladin. It's really not hard to achieve, and worst comes to the worst you can play it for full cost. Then there's one Azure Drake atm. Chromaggus kind of but not really. All in all not great but not many decks have great draw - so not a priority imo.
In summary:
• Totally agree that +1 Jouster is reasonable replacement
• I want to throw Alex out there, based on my time with Dragodin it's a good fit
• If Bolf doesn't work in this deck then he's probably a shit card lol
hmmm... yeah Alex could work, in aggro matchups it could give you the extra heal you need and possibly help you finish off your opponent. Although note: Alex is the only 7+ atk minion in your deck (bgh says hi), maybe better replace her with Tirion? As you say yourself this deck has no real finisher and rather wants to outvalue your opponent and lets face it Tirion is value incorporate and I still believe with 8 dragons the sinergy should still be good.
Otherwise I really like this deck, potentially ironbeak is also a bit of a tech choice depending on the meta and could be changed.
The thing that doesnt quite convince me yet about coliseum is that, atleast if I think about my control warrior games brawl is quite often (if not mostly) used to remove their biggest threat (and hope for them to get out of it only a low value minion or a friendly for you). I can see this card being a bit of a dead card in Control matchups but yeah I do see the potential you talk about, it just has to be tested.
“My armor is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!” - Smaug
Yeah Paladin is the most obvious Dragon class due to Dragon Consort, but I believe we might see a good Dragon deck pop up for Priest as well! :)
Here's my attempt of a Dragodin deck
What is Hearthstone to you?
A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
Just looking at the deck lists posted here we can make out the 'core' of the Dragon Paladin deck, but I added some comments/questions to a few choices:
1 Equality (maybe even 2?)
2 Shielded Minibot (important against aggro, the only 2-drop minion)
2 Aldor Peacekeeper (would 1 be enough?)
2 Truesilver Champion
2 Consecration (with the mid game board presence and Enter the Colosseum as well as Eadric, could we go down to 1?)
2 Dragon Consort
2 Tuskarr Jouster (seems important for life gain and board presence)
1 Enter the Colosseum (needs obvious testing)
1 Eadric the Pure (powerful board control)
1 Tirion Fordring
1 Big Game Hunter
2 Blackwing Technician (as solid early game minion, even as a 2/4 sometimes)
2 Twilight Guardian (same as the Technician, new staple?)
1 Azure Drake (more dragon cards, some card draw, but the spell power doesn't impact the deck really)
2 Blackwing Corruptor (what's the best number, 1 or 2?)
1 Chillmaw (seems strong to be a new staple)
That makes 26 cards! Now which of those cards would be the most likely to be NOT essential? Did I miss some cards you think HAVE to be in a good Dragon Paladin deck?
professional pilferers prefer proper preparation
Well Nefarian and Ysera are pretty essential I would say
Lay on Hands would be the only card draw in the deck so it's quite important too.
So I guess you'd have 1-3 free slots after that, 3 if you only run 1 Equality and 1 Tuskarr Jouster.
Probably good to use that on Sylvanas Windrunner, Dr. Boom and maybe another 4-drop dragon, I think Hungry Dragon would be better than Twilight Drake most of the time, but maybe there is another choice too?
What is Hearthstone to you?
A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
It seems like about 2 high cmc dragons are good for the deck, but which one is probably up to personal preference. Ysera, Chromaggus, Nefarian, Alexstrasza are all good cards to choose from.
professional pilferers prefer proper preparation
Yeah there's a bit of flexibility here which is nice.
Personally I go with Ysera for the pseudo-card draw, as I don't rate LoH in this deck, you just have too much to do with your mana to maintain board control - and Alexstrasza, because as Paladins we have awful burst potential so being able to just focus on controlling the board and dropping her at the end to bring lethal within reach is great, plus there are absolutely times against aggro when she can heal you out of lethal in time for you to clear the board.
I wouldn't run two Aldors and Eadric and I feel like Eadric is better with joust cards plus could be important in dealing with cards like Aviana, Varian and Palestress.
I also wouldn't run 2x equality and Enter the Coliseum, that's too much imo and the big opportunity Coliseum gives us is to drop and equality and a consecrate, wrap them up into one card (kind of) and free up space for another card.
I'm sure you all know the pain of being desperate to draw a nice chunky minion and bam, it's a useless equality!
I really don't see why you'd run Chromaggus though :S
You counting on comboing with Emperor Thaurissan sticking on board for 2-3 turns so you can play your 1 Chromaggus with your 1 Azure Drake?^^
Also by the time you get to play Alexstrasza you've mostly dealt quite a lot of damage to your opponent already and you certainly wont need it defensively, would probably decrease your health at that point.
What is Hearthstone to you?
A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
Coliseum's strength is against decks like Zoo and Mech Mage, where a brawl could often leave you without any minion and the opponent with one, ie. no tempo switch.
Equality + Conc removes their board, but then you have a probably chunky minion of yours with just 1hp.
Coliseum let's you keep your chunky minion untouched, removes all of their minions bar one, and hopefully deal with that minion using yours.
If you want to deal with just one o their minions then equality/BGH/owl would seem to me the solutions this deck provides, whereas Coliseum is for those others occasions.
On the question of Aldor Peacekeeper, I would tend to favour 2x because of the utility that goes with Enter the Coliseum. I think being able to choose the "highest attack minion" strategically will be powerful.
In my deck the flexible spots are for Lay on Hands and Solemn Vigil for card draw, also if you play Chromaggus off of Dragon Consort your opponent has to deal with a 6 mana 6/8 or I'll get at least one draw from him. The main advantage over the other big dragons is his 8 mana cost, this allows him to be played where the other dragon's won't work.
EDIT: Solemn Vigil works great after (Equality ->) Consecration against Zoo, Mech, Hunter, Face-Pala, (Patron)
professional pilferers prefer proper preparation
Acolyte has pretty bad synergy with Paladin, at least in this form.
Solemn Vigil really doesn't suck at all. Yes it's somewhat situational, but drawing two cards for free, which is usually not hard at some point in the game after you have drawn it, is super swingy and totally worth it.
And yeah I agree with DisRapt0r, Chromaggus is kinda classic in Dragodin because it's such a strong turn 6 after a turn 5 Consort. I've found it very hard to combo with Solemn Vigil but you don't really need that for it to be worth playing on turn 6.. It's a 6/8 that has to be removed or you will gain massive card advantage.