I appreciate Keleseth is a better card. But you can't include other 2-drops if you include him. In particular, I seem to be encountering a great many aggro decks: Rogue, Warrior, Druid and even some others which employ Pirates. Thus, losing Golakka Crawler seems like a big hit.
Prince, but you have to use many 1 drop minion and the 3 manas spell to draw them, this way you get more value from prince, without this I think the x2 Grimestreet a little more reliable.
The Prince Keleseth decks are usually made a bit differently. It all depends on where you are on the ladder with it I would think, if I was on the low end and wanted to climb with a buffadin deck, I'd go with the 2 x Grimestreet Outfitter as it lets the deck have some answers to decks it won't need higher up the ladder.
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Do pirate warrior players get headaches from the skill ceiling crushing their skull?
prince is only good if u draw it early, otherwise grimestreet, while slow, might still be better. that being said, if u have prince on curve, with divine favor and small time recruits paladin can get an insane tempo advantage
Personally, playing Paladin I would want to include 2 drops since they are so good in Pally. Also, having 2 copies of the buff (even if only to the hand instead of deck) is also a consideration. As you said, having no 2 drops against aggro isn't good, and is even worse when you have to wait to reap the benefits of Keleseth, where Outfitter is more immediate. Plus, Keleseth only helps when you draw him, but he constantly hurts due to his drawback. Outfitter helps when you draw him, but otherwise has no effect on your gameplan.
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Nature is the Day. Man is the Sun. Woman is the Moon. The Stone is the Sky. The Art is the Way.
I appreciate the feedback. I have been trying Keleseth because I see some pro players using him in decks and saying they go to legend. Perhaps I'm just too crappy a player but I am stuck around 6 on the ladder with such a deck.
Moreover, even in casual I can't believe how many times I see the standard pirate opening move where you get the 1/2 pirate (name escapes me) and then Patches. I miss the Crawlers. Gonna try them again.
The pro players you refer to, didn't use ONLY Handbuff to get there. They play all decks, always changing according to the meta game, and maybe their last 20 games to legend were made with Handbuff.
Kelseth is better than Outfitter, because it buffs more cards and you get immediate value from taunts and charges. Plus a 2/2 body is an entire other world than a 1/1.
I started with outfitters then i decided to go down the prince path not long after. I was running only outfitters and a couple novice engineer and loot hoarder for draw.
The thought that made my mind up was that outfitter's value output is dependent on the number of minions in your hand. With prince, you buff all of the remaining minions in your deck, which more often than not is a lot more minions. I compensated for the draw i took out by running Fight Promoter. The condition is much easier to meet now than when it was released.
Overall i have had a much better experience with keleseth personally, although it may not be ideal for everyone at every time. It can certainly limit your first couple of turns a bit more, but i am usually not too concerned as i have plenty of taunt minions to stall out the early game pretty reliably.
Edit: i made a couple card changes. Skulking geist wasn't cutting it. I am now running 2x Mindbreaker to really screw with druids' removal options instead while i hide behind my fat taunts.
So many pirates out there right now. Making me wonder about Keleseth... again. I just can't believe it, it must be 50% at least of the decks I'm seeing (even in casual) are using pirates for fast draws.
Prince absolutely, a 2 mana 1/1 isn't good enough in a deck that is trying really hard to keep tempo because if you lose the board you don't have any catchups. 2 mana 2/2 obviously isn't insane either but it is so much better with upsides. Fight Promoter isn't that great either, can often be quite clunky in your hand. The best form of handbuff paladin now is to be aggressive.
I've been playing with this list too. Still undecided on Dragonhawk, probably a one slot windfury (Grook fu master) would be enough. This way you can change the Blessing of Might and the one hawk remaining to Acherus.
I've played it both ways, and I prefer the prince to the outfitters. To deal with a lack of 2-drops, I've added those flame elemental 1 drops, which gives you a turn 2 play if you don't get the prince in your opening hanf, and removed curator in favor of cobalt scalebanes - good anti-priest tech and a must-remove-quickly board state.
Hydrologist is better than Outfitter and in current meta so is Golakka. Unless you're running Firefly you probably won't have a turn 1 play that impacts the board, then going with a 2 mana 1/1 into game over probably. Prince in handbuff isn't very good because most of the time you skip your turn 2 and that's not good because handbuff isn't good at fighting back.
I wanted to revisit this post as we near the end of October.
How many people are playing with Golakka Crawlers right now? I am still torn on using them vs. the Prince in a buff deck. Whenever I remove them I seem to regret it immediately (hello Keleseth Rogue opponents.)
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If you play a "buffadin" deck, do you prefer Prince Keleseth or 2 x Grimestreet Outfitter?
I appreciate Keleseth is a better card. But you can't include other 2-drops if you include him. In particular, I seem to be encountering a great many aggro decks: Rogue, Warrior, Druid and even some others which employ Pirates. Thus, losing Golakka Crawler seems like a big hit.
Which do people prefer?
Prince, but you have to use many 1 drop minion and the 3 manas spell to draw them, this way you get more value from prince, without this I think the x2 Grimestreet a little more reliable.
The Prince Keleseth decks are usually made a bit differently. It all depends on where you are on the ladder with it I would think, if I was on the low end and wanted to climb with a buffadin deck, I'd go with the 2 x Grimestreet Outfitter as it lets the deck have some answers to decks it won't need higher up the ladder.
Do pirate warrior players get headaches from the skill ceiling crushing their skull?
prince is only good if u draw it early, otherwise grimestreet, while slow, might still be better. that being said, if u have prince on curve, with divine favor and small time recruits paladin can get an insane tempo advantage
Grimestreet Outfitter for me.
Personally, playing Paladin I would want to include 2 drops since they are so good in Pally. Also, having 2 copies of the buff (even if only to the hand instead of deck) is also a consideration. As you said, having no 2 drops against aggro isn't good, and is even worse when you have to wait to reap the benefits of Keleseth, where Outfitter is more immediate. Plus, Keleseth only helps when you draw him, but he constantly hurts due to his drawback. Outfitter helps when you draw him, but otherwise has no effect on your gameplan.
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.
I appreciate the feedback. I have been trying Keleseth because I see some pro players using him in decks and saying they go to legend. Perhaps I'm just too crappy a player but I am stuck around 6 on the ladder with such a deck.
Moreover, even in casual I can't believe how many times I see the standard pirate opening move where you get the 1/2 pirate (name escapes me) and then Patches. I miss the Crawlers. Gonna try them again.
The pro players you refer to, didn't use ONLY Handbuff to get there. They play all decks, always changing according to the meta game, and maybe their last 20 games to legend were made with Handbuff.
Kelseth is better than Outfitter, because it buffs more cards and you get immediate value from taunts and charges. Plus a 2/2 body is an entire other world than a 1/1.
I started with outfitters then i decided to go down the prince path not long after. I was running only outfitters and a couple novice engineer and loot hoarder for draw.
The thought that made my mind up was that outfitter's value output is dependent on the number of minions in your hand. With prince, you buff all of the remaining minions in your deck, which more often than not is a lot more minions. I compensated for the draw i took out by running Fight Promoter. The condition is much easier to meet now than when it was released.
Overall i have had a much better experience with keleseth personally, although it may not be ideal for everyone at every time. It can certainly limit your first couple of turns a bit more, but i am usually not too concerned as i have plenty of taunt minions to stall out the early game pretty reliably.
Do you have a deck you use with Fight Promoter you can share?
For sure. I think i posted it in another related thread, but here it is
Edit: i made a couple card changes. Skulking geist wasn't cutting it. I am now running 2x Mindbreaker to really screw with druids' removal options instead while i hide behind my fat taunts.
So many pirates out there right now. Making me wonder about Keleseth... again. I just can't believe it, it must be 50% at least of the decks I'm seeing (even in casual) are using pirates for fast draws.
Prince absolutely, a 2 mana 1/1 isn't good enough in a deck that is trying really hard to keep tempo because if you lose the board you don't have any catchups. 2 mana 2/2 obviously isn't insane either but it is so much better with upsides. Fight Promoter isn't that great either, can often be quite clunky in your hand. The best form of handbuff paladin now is to be aggressive.
As a follow up to my original post, Kibler now has a deck streaming on Twitch in which he has replaced Keleseth and includes 2 x Golakka Crawler.
And actually didn't do too good with.
I'm currently playing with Keleseth, hitted Legend with the deck.
Share some love by voting up:
I've been playing with this list too. Still undecided on Dragonhawk, probably a one slot windfury (Grook fu master) would be enough. This way you can change the Blessing of Might and the one hawk remaining to Acherus.
I've played it both ways, and I prefer the prince to the outfitters. To deal with a lack of 2-drops, I've added those flame elemental 1 drops, which gives you a turn 2 play if you don't get the prince in your opening hanf, and removed curator in favor of cobalt scalebanes - good anti-priest tech and a must-remove-quickly board state.
Hydrologist is better than Outfitter and in current meta so is Golakka. Unless you're running Firefly you probably won't have a turn 1 play that impacts the board, then going with a 2 mana 1/1 into game over probably. Prince in handbuff isn't very good because most of the time you skip your turn 2 and that's not good because handbuff isn't good at fighting back.
I wanted to revisit this post as we near the end of October.
How many people are playing with Golakka Crawlers right now? I am still torn on using them vs. the Prince in a buff deck. Whenever I remove them I seem to regret it immediately (hello Keleseth Rogue opponents.)