Everyone keeps talking about Jade and aggro and how they will affect the next meta. The truth is I actually see Handbuffadin being a strong counter to Jade. If pally can get tons of buffs on their cards and drop them against jade that lacks hard removal you can tend to overwhelm them. Currently C'thun lists are actually very strong against jade druid because they tend not to be able to handle c'thun (and since they are losing mulch and raven idol to search mulch they will lack efficient ways to get rid of huge targets). Not to mention the new pally legendary is a hard counter to jades late game and if you manage to buff tirion/lightlord/etc to 10+ stats they will tend to struggler immensely with removing them.
However, handbuffadin's current issue in the meta is that its not early game tanky enough to deal with aggro. With the addition of tar creeper and the 4 mana divine taz-dingo I see the potential for a good stun deck.
The bad thing with buff centric paladins is that they need to fill their deck with minions, in order for handbuffs to find targets when drawn. This means that you need to rely on your minions to take the board and keep it. Jade druids (as they are now), have superior board presence, Swipes, draw and power-growing board. You can't win them if you can't either kill them fast or reset their board after they get big jades.
The mulch rotation will surely help Tirion, but I doubt that you will find a good solution on handbuffs.
We need some card drawing minions for paladin. Acolyte of pain generally only draws 1 card which isn't strong enough, and solemn vigil is not only rotating out but also takes up a slot that'd otherwise be a minion. I dont see a very bright future for paladin unless the meta slows down considerably.
I had some success (ranks 10-5) early in the MSoG era with an aggressive murloc/handbuff/Small-Time Recruits/Divine Favor deck. It was really fun, and I had games where I would exhaust my deck while the opponent had 17 or more cards left. But pirates ate it alive, along with every other non-Reno non-Dragon Priest deck the past few months.
If pallies can get a few tools to stop pirates, and they already may have with what's revealed, I wouldn't be surprised to see handbuffing become viable.
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Standard Legend - July '16 (Rank 56), June '17, Dec. '18, Apr. '19
Wild Legend - Mar. '18 (Rank 30), Apr. '18, Aug. '19
Twelve Arena Wins - Shaman, Warlock, Mage x2, Rogue, Priest (12-0), Druid, Hallow's End x2, Hunter, Taverns of Time x3 (Pa,D,WL), Paladin
Buff Paladin has always been very strong vs Jade Druid. The sad part is Buff Paladin gets eaten alive by every other meta deck currently.
In the first two months of MsoG I could easily hold an 80% winrate vs Jade Druid however getting crushed badly by any fast deck or dragon priest kinda killed it for me. Sadly I left paladin behind and haven't really touched the class since january.
Everyone keeps talking about Jade and aggro and how they will affect the next meta. The truth is I actually see Handbuffadin being a strong counter to Jade. If pally can get tons of buffs on their cards and drop them against jade that lacks hard removal you can tend to overwhelm them. Currently C'thun lists are actually very strong against jade druid because they tend not to be able to handle c'thun (and since they are losing mulch and raven idol to search mulch they will lack efficient ways to get rid of huge targets). Not to mention the new pally legendary is a hard counter to jades late game and if you manage to buff tirion/lightlord/etc to 10+ stats they will tend to struggler immensely with removing them.
However, handbuffadin's current issue in the meta is that its not early game tanky enough to deal with aggro. With the addition of tar creeper and the 4 mana divine taz-dingo I see the potential for a good stun deck.
But hand-buff Paladin is the deck with no hard removal -you take it out to run all minions.
However, the new Tar Creeper looks VERY strong in hand-buff pali.
But hand-buff Paladin is the deck with no hard removal -you take it out to run all minions.
However, the new Tar Creeper looks VERY strong in hand-buff pali.
Who needs hard removals when your opponent doesn't have constant hard removals for tons of 8/8+ minions post turn 6 (rag/tirion/grimstreet protector) if the meta slows down this kind of deck will outright dominate over jades just because of the shear fact it puts out bigger minions faster. Not to mention the loss of azure drake means Swipe will not be as oppressive as it has been.
Handbuff is quicker at building a massive minion from the start against Jade Druid. Defeated a Druid with an 8/7 Genzo, the Shark he had no answer to other than squeak out a few suicidal jades and increase his mana pool. (In fact, this is the only deck I've found a use for Genzo, as a very large minion potential with early handbuffs).
But the key to beating jade druids is that: early attack.
Surprising aggro priest (well, as close to aggro as priest decks can get) from Coin/Ancient Watcher then silence, Kabal Talonpriest; and Rez priest (rezzed army of Injured Blademaster) can wreck jade druid as well.
And then there's chance. If the druid doesn't get card draw and burns out cards and you're able to press ...
In fact, seeing the cards released for Paladin, it seems that handbuff isn't actually given any love, but instead the 'low cost' aggro is reviving. Tarim screams 'buff your little fellas', and Lost in the jungle is an amazing play with Steward/Tarim.
I doubt handbuff pala will ever be a meta defining thing because devolve is in the same set and devolve will shine against the priest / rogue quests aswell......
If anything, it will be the new cancer that everyone will hate. It can already do disgusting things like make 3 mana 7/9s and snowballs out of control insanely fast if you don't have great answers. Pirate warrior is literally the only thing holding it back and pirate warrior will be non exsistant in ungoro.
Devolve doesnt work on rogue quest. They will still be 5/5s
He meant maybe to devolve your minions before you can play 4 of them? I dont know.. that isn't going to be enough to stop the quest if the rogues deck is built for it though..
The bad thing with buff centric paladins is that they need to fill their deck with minions, in order for handbuffs to find targets when drawn. This means that you need to rely on your minions to take the board and keep it. Jade druids (as they are now), have superior board presence, Swipes, draw and power-growing board. You can't win them if you can't either kill them fast or reset their board after they get big jades.
The mulch rotation will surely help Tirion, but I doubt that you will find a good solution on handbuffs.
no, the trick is you just add smuggler's run+outfitter to your deck and forget the triclass cow and the dwarf enforcer guy, then play the handbuffers when you have worthy targets for them, had enough success in wild doing that and adding Arcane Nullifier X-21 as a prime target for my handbuffs.
I fail to see how Handbuffadin can be a thing : it is basically an inferior variant of Jade decks. Hand buffs and Jades both aim at doing the same thing (play understated minion early in order to get overstated ones later on) , but Jades are... [snip]
So if Paladin rise again after Un'Goro, it will be either by going full control (their new legendary + Equality + Peacekeepers can keep Golem at bay), or with a faster deck, either aggro or fast midrange : handbuff will still be too slow and inconsistent.
That is essentially what I fear. I've tried a lot of Paladin in MSoG, and found that while people do underrate how well handbuff Paladin can do in many matchups, the bottom line is that it is a clunky deck that desperately requires board presence due to its lack of comeback tools.
I plan on experimenting more in Un'goro, but some of the cards rotating out will hurt. Sunkeeper Tarim will be very nice, but there will need to be 1-2 more workhorse cards to take the place of Argent Horserider and Keeper of Uldaman. Blizzard hinted that every class is (maybe?) getting an elemental, and if it is possible to harness this synergy it may be good. Buffed Tar Creepers and Tol'vir Stoneshapers would be brutal, and Fire Fly has some nice synergy with handbuff (can play it out, but still keep a minion in your hand for later).
I fail to see how Handbuffadin can be a thing : it is basically an inferior variant of Jade decks. Hand buffs and Jades both aim at doing the same thing (play understated minion early in order to get overstated ones later on) , but Jades are... [snip]
So if Paladin rise again after Un'Goro, it will be either by going full control (their new legendary + Equality + Peacekeepers can keep Golem at bay), or with a faster deck, either aggro or fast midrange : handbuff will still be too slow and inconsistent.
That is essentially what I fear. I've tried a lot of Paladin in MSoG, and found that while people do underrate how well handbuff Paladin can do in many matchups, the bottom line is that it is a clunky deck that desperately requires board presence due to its lack of comeback tools.
I plan on experimenting more in Un'goro, but some of the cards rotating out will hurt. Sunkeeper Tarim will be very nice, but there will need to be 1-2 more workhorse cards to take the place of Argent Horserider and Keeper of Uldaman. Blizzard hinted that every class is (maybe?) getting an elemental, and if it is possible to harness this synergy it may be good. Buffed Tar Creepers and Tol'vir Stoneshapers would be brutal, and Fire Fly has some nice synergy with handbuff (can play it out, but still keep a minion in your hand for later).
Anyway, all "maybes" at this point.
The current issue with hand buffadin is that it loses to aggro so easily. with the addition of Tar and Tol'vir their early game will be significantly better which means you can actually ladder with the deck knowing you won't get dominated by turn 3. a single time buffed tar or tol'vit can cock block a beserker who has 5 health. not to mention they'd both go to 6 hp out of arcanite reaper range. then all they have to do is get to turn 6 and onward to reach their better heal and taunt cards. There's no reason unless you literally draw all of your 5-8 drops that you should struggle. If they release any better early game in terms of actual pally cards or neutrals, then midrange buff pally will be playable
Everyone keeps talking about Jade and aggro and how they will affect the next meta. The truth is I actually see Handbuffadin being a strong counter to Jade. If pally can get tons of buffs on their cards and drop them against jade that lacks hard removal you can tend to overwhelm them. Currently C'thun lists are actually very strong against jade druid because they tend not to be able to handle c'thun (and since they are losing mulch and raven idol to search mulch they will lack efficient ways to get rid of huge targets). Not to mention the new pally legendary is a hard counter to jades late game and if you manage to buff tirion/lightlord/etc to 10+ stats they will tend to struggler immensely with removing them.
However, handbuffadin's current issue in the meta is that its not early game tanky enough to deal with aggro. With the addition of tar creeper and the 4 mana divine taz-dingo I see the potential for a good stun deck.
It is good to see people look in a different way. Instead of crying for nerf they should analyze what the meta would be.
Death to all who oppose the Horde!
The bad thing with buff centric paladins is that they need to fill their deck with minions, in order for handbuffs to find targets when drawn. This means that you need to rely on your minions to take the board and keep it. Jade druids (as they are now), have superior board presence, Swipes, draw and power-growing board. You can't win them if you can't either kill them fast or reset their board after they get big jades.
The mulch rotation will surely help Tirion, but I doubt that you will find a good solution on handbuffs.
We need some card drawing minions for paladin. Acolyte of pain generally only draws 1 card which isn't strong enough, and solemn vigil is not only rotating out but also takes up a slot that'd otherwise be a minion. I dont see a very bright future for paladin unless the meta slows down considerably.
That's Incredible!
I had some success (ranks 10-5) early in the MSoG era with an aggressive murloc/handbuff/Small-Time Recruits/Divine Favor deck. It was really fun, and I had games where I would exhaust my deck while the opponent had 17 or more cards left. But pirates ate it alive, along with every other non-Reno non-Dragon Priest deck the past few months.
If pallies can get a few tools to stop pirates, and they already may have with what's revealed, I wouldn't be surprised to see handbuffing become viable.
Standard Legend - July '16 (Rank 56), June '17, Dec. '18, Apr. '19
Wild Legend - Mar. '18 (Rank 30), Apr. '18, Aug. '19
Twelve Arena Wins - Shaman, Warlock, Mage x2, Rogue, Priest (12-0), Druid, Hallow's End x2, Hunter, Taverns of Time x3 (Pa,D,WL), Paladin
Buff Paladin has always been very strong vs Jade Druid. The sad part is Buff Paladin gets eaten alive by every other meta deck currently.
In the first two months of MsoG I could easily hold an 80% winrate vs Jade Druid however getting crushed badly by any fast deck or dragon priest kinda killed it for me. Sadly I left paladin behind and haven't really touched the class since january.
Handbuff is quicker at building a massive minion from the start against Jade Druid. Defeated a Druid with an 8/7 Genzo, the Shark he had no answer to other than squeak out a few suicidal jades and increase his mana pool. (In fact, this is the only deck I've found a use for Genzo, as a very large minion potential with early handbuffs).
But the key to beating jade druids is that: early attack.
Surprising aggro priest (well, as close to aggro as priest decks can get) from Coin/Ancient Watcher then silence, Kabal Talonpriest; and Rez priest (rezzed army of Injured Blademaster) can wreck jade druid as well.
And then there's chance. If the druid doesn't get card draw and burns out cards and you're able to press ...
In fact, seeing the cards released for Paladin, it seems that handbuff isn't actually given any love, but instead the 'low cost' aggro is reviving. Tarim screams 'buff your little fellas', and Lost in the jungle is an amazing play with Steward/Tarim.
I doubt handbuff pala will ever be a meta defining thing because devolve is in the same set and devolve will shine against the priest / rogue quests aswell......
Devolve doesnt work on rogue quest. They will still be 5/5s
Theres also a significant number of cards yet to be revealed.. You don't know what tools those other classes are going to get
Seems ok.
If anything, it will be the new cancer that everyone will hate. It can already do disgusting things like make 3 mana 7/9s and snowballs out of control insanely fast if you don't have great answers. Pirate warrior is literally the only thing holding it back and pirate warrior will be non exsistant in ungoro.
Seems ok.
hand buff paladin will be sitting in the corner eating glue like it was all this time...