A little tired of being limited to either aggro or control Paladin I started working with a few other deckbuilders you've probably seen around Hearthpwn etc. on trying to build a strong midrange variant.
The issue has clearly been the loss of the standard Paladin early game: Chow, Minibot, Muster. Simply trying to replace those cards like for like hasn't worked, so really the whole deck needed a rethink, and what we came up with has so far been working extremely well. I haven't taken it to legend, but a 75%ish winrate from rank 9 to 4 tells me it's worth a shot.
Long story short you take the best of aggro Paladin and control Paladin and put them together. Going all in on divine shields is ok but against classes that can keep your board clear it's very easy to run out of steam, but in order to benefit from these new cards you don't have to commit 100% of your strategy to that mechanic. Similarly, N'zoth is a super strong card in Paladin given the existence of Tirion but you don't need to bring back only late game bombs for it to be a win condition: bringing back a bunch of Selfless Heroes, Harvest Golems and a Cairne is often enough to seal the deal.
So you start with sticky divine shield and deathrattle minions like Argent Squire and Harvest Golem, trade up with Abusive Sergeants, Selfless Hero buffs, Defender of Argus and Rallying Blade, and curve into bigger midrange minions like Sylvanas, Cairne and Healbot and if you haven't already overwhelmed your opponent then N'zoth gives you that final push.
tl;dr Give midrange Paladin a go, just don't try to replace the old cards with like for like new ones. The best strategy seems to be capitalising on the strengths of both control and aggro Paladin, rather than putting all your eggs in one basket.
I'd try to squeeze a Justicar in there. Also, Blessing of Kings is needed to strategies that feature sticky boards. Definitely the 2/1 Charge-Divine Shield over C'Thun's Chosen.
It doesn't really rely on them to win. Although I haven't tried the list, I've been playing an Aggro with Justicar and Tirion. I usually won by trading and getting the board. The fact that I had 2 late game options, didn't mean that I needed Tirion to close the game.
I'd try to squeeze a Justicar in there. Also, Blessing of Kings is needed to strategies that feature sticky boards. Definitely the 2/1 Charge-Divine Shield over C'Thun's Chosen.
Probably 1 Equality also?
Now you're going too far control imo. The 2/1 charger doesn't do much in a deck that focuses on tempo and value trades without something like Flametongue Totem, sure you can buff it with Might or something, but then you're left with a 5/1, it's a good way to 2 for 1 yourself.
Justicarr and Kings are down in the sideboards, they're definitely super strong vs control. I'm seeing mainly aggressive decks though, so I'm not getting as much value out of them. Sometimes the meta goes all out Cthun Priest and Control Warrior and then you really want them, but vs Zoo and Shaman I think you just want to prioritise a strong start.
C'thun's chosen is pretty much the strongest midrange 4 drop in the game now that Shredder is gone imo. Facing that thing as a Priest is very upsetting lmao.
I really wouldn't call a deck relying on Tirion and N'zoth to win "midrange".
Midrange Paladin has always run Tirion, and a single 10 cost card does not = a control deck anymore than Anyfin Paladin is a control deck.
The point of Nzoth is to give you legs vs decks that try to control you. It's not the primary win condition, it's just an additional one vs decks that often survive your other win condition; zoo-ing them out, much like Midrange Paladin of prior expansions and the current Midrange Shaman etc.
On the contrary Argent Horserider does wonders in decks that rely on trades, especially since he is nice with Abusive Sergeant, Keeper of Uladaman (later on )and your Rallying Blade. You got some ways to buff it. Part of the reason why you need Blessing of Kings imho.
Not a fan of C'thun's Chosen in no Cthun decks. Keeper is a far stronger 4drop for Paladin, so you can make them 2. I'd drop the other one for Blessings.
I also bet that you can swap Acolyte and one Aldor for Stewards and scrap the Jugglers for Bilefin for more divine synergy. I'd also drop the Forbidden Healing for a second Vigil.
also, how good is Selfless Hero with only 1 2drop?
I´d also definetely want to include an Equality
It's really quite fine, you don't need to rely on a T1 Selfless Hero T2 2-Drop. Proccing it on an Abusive Sergeant is probably the best early game play.
In the meta I'm seeing, zoo, shaman and tempo warrior, equality is just not worthwhile. It was cut from many midrange Paladin decks prior to WoToG for the same reason, it's often better to just play a strong minion and push through. You can certainly try it and let me know if it works for you but I was running it as a one of initially but I didn't find it essential.
Big problems I would rather deal with using Aldor and Uldaman, their bodies keep up the pressure.
Re running Bilefins and Stewards, there is already a deck that does that, it's called aggro paladin, this is midrange Paladin!
Re running Bilefins and Stewards, there is already a deck that does that, it's called aggro paladin, this is midrange Paladin!
Swapping Bilefins with Juggler, doesn't make you midrange. In the same context, you shouldn't run N'zoth and Cairne because there is already a deck that runs them and it's control.
Re running Bilefins and Stewards, there is already a deck that does that, it's called aggro paladin, this is midrange Paladin!
Swapping Bilefins with Juggler, doesn't make you midrange. In the same context, you shouldn't run N'zoth and Cairne because there is already a deck that runs them and it's control.
Combined with Stewards it does demand a different deck and strategy. I agree that those synergies are strong and if you want to go all out with divine shield you can, but that takes the form of an aggressive zoo-ish eboladin deck. That's fine but that's specifically what I am trying to provide an alternative to. The 2, 3 and 4 drops in this deck are chosen for tempo.
Re Selfless Hero, as nogoat says it's a bit of a trap to try and set it up for specific combos like that, really if it procs the way you want it to it's a bonus. It's strength is in forcing your opponent to play around it, rather than playing around it yourself, because such plays are usually inefficient - so let them make that inefficient play, kill your Selfless Hero, laud themselves for negating it's proc while you plough on with the rest of your deck after they've wasted 2 mana on a ping that left the board for you. It's deathrattle is more valuable later in the game or when brought back with Nzoth, in the early game I would just focus on board control and tempo by whatever means is in your hand.
I'd admit that Selfless Hero is one of the cards that is again better with Steward :) Also, Divine Shield Pala is actually a midrange deck and has nothing to do with pre-Old Gods aggro. It does require very good trading and very good sense of when to push with a minion that will take the game for you.
Obviously the cost of cards should be low, so that the best card in the deck, Divine Favor gives back value. That's essentially the only similarity with aggro decks. Since I've played tons of Divine Aggro up to legend (combined with N'Zoth), I'd say that it's one of the toughest decks to master in this meta, because if you simply play it as a Shockadin, you will end up asking yourself why bother with a non-working list.
I'd admit that Selfless Hero is one of the cards that is again better with Steward :) Also, Divine Shield Pala is actually a midrange deck and has nothing to do with pre-Old Gods aggro. It does require very good trading and very good sense of when to push with a minion that will take the game for you.
Obviously the cost of cards should be low, so that the best card in the deck, Divine Favor gives back value. That's essentially the only similarity with aggro decks. Since I've played tons of Divine Aggro up to legend (combined with N'Zoth), I'd say that it's one of the toughest decks to master in this meta, because if you simply play it as a Shockadin, you will end up asking yourself why bother with a non-working list.
Aggro Paladin has always been that way. And really all Paladin decks tend toward the midrange feel due to the class cards/hero power.
Aggro Paladin has always required early game trading for board control. Much more so that any other aggro deck such as hunter. Paladin has no burst damage, and so if you lose the board, you have almost no way to do damage. Any other aggro class can end the game with some form of burst that doesn't require a board. Paladin has always been about the board control, if you aren't trading for early board control, than you are almost certainly playing any version of aggro Paladin wrong, weather it's Shock or Divine or any other aggro list.
That's nice to know that people didn't give up on midrange paladin. As a matter of fact I tried to make one as well since pally is my favourite class, especially midrange variation.
I don't think C'Thun's Chosen is that good really since it's usually murdered by a tentacle and a 1 drop. My version doesn't run N'Zoth, the Corruptor because it's far too slow and my deck doesn't run Sylvanas Windrunner for the same reason.
Needless to say, I'm having a blast with it. Feels like this midrange pal is far more fun than pre-standart one.
Thank you, guys. You gave me the desire to make a functioning Midrange Paladin now. My pre-Standard Midrange deck was my most popular deck here on hearthpwn ;)
IMO the best way to try to work out a Midrange Paladin is to think about Murloc Synergies.
Currently the problem with Midrange Paladin is that the strong start to keep board control, i.e. Zombie Chow, Bot and Muster. You got none of that in these Midrange versions. For instance, the Midrange Reborn deck, you have way too many 4 drops, makes it hard to curve well into later rounds and control early game.
It has not been easy to work out a Midrange version for Paladin, and I've been trying real hard. But I believe that with Murloc synergy you would be able to, haven't been able to try it out myself because I am lacking the 1 drop epics.
No deck posted here lists Blood Knight. I would :).
It almost feels too gimicky for me, plus then my minions lose Divine Shield. I'd rather have the trade ability with Shields than a big minion prime to be removed.
It's worth arguing that he could be used as early bait for removal so my late game threats will stick but I don't know... Also. I don't have him. HAHAH
A little tired of being limited to either aggro or control Paladin I started working with a few other deckbuilders you've probably seen around Hearthpwn etc. on trying to build a strong midrange variant.
The issue has clearly been the loss of the standard Paladin early game: Chow, Minibot, Muster. Simply trying to replace those cards like for like hasn't worked, so really the whole deck needed a rethink, and what we came up with has so far been working extremely well. I haven't taken it to legend, but a 75%ish winrate from rank 9 to 4 tells me it's worth a shot.
Long story short you take the best of aggro Paladin and control Paladin and put them together. Going all in on divine shields is ok but against classes that can keep your board clear it's very easy to run out of steam, but in order to benefit from these new cards you don't have to commit 100% of your strategy to that mechanic. Similarly, N'zoth is a super strong card in Paladin given the existence of Tirion but you don't need to bring back only late game bombs for it to be a win condition: bringing back a bunch of Selfless Heroes, Harvest Golems and a Cairne is often enough to seal the deal.
So you start with sticky divine shield and deathrattle minions like Argent Squire and Harvest Golem, trade up with Abusive Sergeants, Selfless Hero buffs, Defender of Argus and Rallying Blade, and curve into bigger midrange minions like Sylvanas, Cairne and Healbot and if you haven't already overwhelmed your opponent then N'zoth gives you that final push.
tl;dr Give midrange Paladin a go, just don't try to replace the old cards with like for like new ones. The best strategy seems to be capitalising on the strengths of both control and aggro Paladin, rather than putting all your eggs in one basket.
I'd try to squeeze a Justicar in there. Also, Blessing of Kings is needed to strategies that feature sticky boards. Definitely the 2/1 Charge-Divine Shield over C'Thun's Chosen.
Probably 1 Equality also?
I really wouldn't call a deck relying on Tirion and N'zoth to win "midrange".
It doesn't really rely on them to win. Although I haven't tried the list, I've been playing an Aggro with Justicar and Tirion. I usually won by trading and getting the board. The fact that I had 2 late game options, didn't mean that I needed Tirion to close the game.
On the contrary Argent Horserider does wonders in decks that rely on trades, especially since he is nice with Abusive Sergeant, Keeper of Uladaman (later on )and your Rallying Blade. You got some ways to buff it. Part of the reason why you need Blessing of Kings imho.
Not a fan of C'thun's Chosen in no Cthun decks. Keeper is a far stronger 4drop for Paladin, so you can make them 2. I'd drop the other one for Blessings.
I also bet that you can swap Acolyte and one Aldor for Stewards and scrap the Jugglers for Bilefin for more divine synergy. I'd also drop the Forbidden Healing for a second Vigil.
I'd admit that Selfless Hero is one of the cards that is again better with Steward :) Also, Divine Shield Pala is actually a midrange deck and has nothing to do with pre-Old Gods aggro. It does require very good trading and very good sense of when to push with a minion that will take the game for you.
Obviously the cost of cards should be low, so that the best card in the deck, Divine Favor gives back value. That's essentially the only similarity with aggro decks. Since I've played tons of Divine Aggro up to legend (combined with N'Zoth), I'd say that it's one of the toughest decks to master in this meta, because if you simply play it as a Shockadin, you will end up asking yourself why bother with a non-working list.
Indeed, just stating the obvious, because most people think that anything containing aggro in the list, means getting SmorC value out of your cards.
That's nice to know that people didn't give up on midrange paladin. As a matter of fact I tried to make one as well since pally is my favourite class, especially midrange variation.
I don't think C'Thun's Chosen is that good really since it's usually murdered by a tentacle and a 1 drop. My version doesn't run N'Zoth, the Corruptor because it's far too slow and my deck doesn't run Sylvanas Windrunner for the same reason.
Needless to say, I'm having a blast with it. Feels like this midrange pal is far more fun than pre-standart one.
Not a fan of corrupted healbot. Giving my opponent 16 health...no thanks. lol
Thank you, guys. You gave me the desire to make a functioning Midrange Paladin now. My pre-Standard Midrange deck was my most popular deck here on hearthpwn ;)
I was just coming to pot something about a MidRange Paladin myself. Here is the deck I've been using:
I have been doing quite well, even against Shamans and such playing the tempo game. It's still a little rough but worth a try for sure.
IMO the best way to try to work out a Midrange Paladin is to think about Murloc Synergies.
Currently the problem with Midrange Paladin is that the strong start to keep board control, i.e. Zombie Chow, Bot and Muster. You got none of that in these Midrange versions. For instance, the Midrange Reborn deck, you have way too many 4 drops, makes it hard to curve well into later rounds and control early game.
It has not been easy to work out a Midrange version for Paladin, and I've been trying real hard. But I believe that with Murloc synergy you would be able to, haven't been able to try it out myself because I am lacking the 1 drop epics.
Here's what I was thinking: