After getting more dust, I've modified this deck slightly to add Leeroy, Rag, and 2 SoJ's. Do you think I removed the right cards? I figured Stormwind Champion would be somewhat redundant with SoJ and the Dark Iron Dwarves went because I had to fit the legendaries in somewhere.
Yep, Stormwind is only there to make up for the lack of late game, having two Stormwinds there lets you compete with the big dogs even without the major cards. Sword of Justice can be excellent with Stormwind Champion on the field and with the amount of low minions, could create a winning board state. You might mistake redundancy with synergy at first glance with SoJ and Stormwind - you'd have to test that. I wouldn't have two Sword of Justice, I suggest to toy around with the idea of a Stormwind Champion alongside it.
Two spellbreakers seem like overkill these days, I would personally cut one down and add another Argent Commander or Argent Protector, whatever you see fit in your experience. My first inclination is to put in another Argent Protector, he becomes insane once you get Sword of Justice out and even more with Stormwind Champion.
Took out one of the Sunwalkers for Lay on Hands. Great GREAT idea doing so. Late game gives me huge card advantage and yeah. It allowed a lot of wins that I wouldn't have had otherwise. Giving me that last push of extra health along with the opponent who was close to winning kicked in the teeth. Its a good change over all
Yep, Stormwind is only there to make up for the lack of late game, having two Stormwinds there lets you compete with the big dogs even without the major cards. Sword of Justice can be excellent with Stormwind Champion on the field and with the amount of low minions, could create a winning board state. You might mistake redundancy with synergy at first glance with SoJ and Stormwind - you'd have to test that. I wouldn't have two Sword of Justice, I suggest to toy around with the idea of a Stormwind Champion alongside it.
Two spellbreakers seem like overkill these days, I would personally cut one down and add another Argent Commander or Argent Protector, whatever you see fit in your experience. My first inclination is to put in another Argent Protector, he becomes insane once you get Sword of Justice out and even more with Stormwind Champion.
Just saw your post. You're right that there usually isn't a need for 2 spellbreakers, I just hold on to them because Trump and Co. incessantly swear by their amazing value. But I will remove 1 in favor of another Protector since Leeroy somewhat removes the need for 2 commanders. I'll also experiment with 1 Stormwind alongside 1 SoJ, although virtually every deck I've seen with SoJ always has a pair of them.
Yeah, because they have enough small minions to support two SoJ - usually along the line of Knife Jugglers and other weenies. One is just fine for a deck without too many low minions because you need to manage your durability in case a Truesilver needs to come out. If you want to try to add in Knife Jugglers in place of higher drops and add in other cards like Bloodsail Raider/Silver Hand Knight, a second SoJ can get some serious mileage.
As for silence: when you're playing in the upper echolons of MMR or in Arena, Silences often become more valuable due to the high amount of Legendaries/Control decks. In general constructed play, you see too many rush decks and other deck archetypes where a silence has minimal effect and a 4/3 minion gets eaten up pretty quickly.
and priest, but you don't see those anymore because people hope off the OP train after nerf, lol
legit deck, i'm pretty happy w/ the results after adding tirion and lay on hands. I swapped out the higher health 4 drops for twilight drakes cause they are better in a high card deck like this with a few changes. also sun shattered clerics suck now so 2x scarlet crusader to replace her, very good card to replace her in general
This Paladin deck is working really well for me for low ranks as I've pretty much just started. I made the following substitutions due to not having the cards...
-2 Aldor Peacekeeper +2 Boulderfist Ogre
-2 Sunwalker +2 Novice Engineer
-1 Silver Hand Knight +1 Azure Drake (because I have it in gold ^_^)
I went with Novice Engineer because she seems perfect here, a low cost minion that replaces itself with the potential to trade up with buffs. I also did
-1 Stormwind Champion +1 Scarlet Crusader
But I do have a Lay on Hands and you guys seem to think it's pretty good so I might try it out. I'm wary of it's 8-cost though, this deck has a lot of good combinations of 4-drops for t8.
Just play Lay on Hands, the value speaks for itself and there will be situations where you'll play LoH and realize it yourself. Experience speaks best! Azure Drake is da bomb. Not many strong, splashable 5 drops in the game, Azure is one of them.
Argent Commander has the same use in my eyes - there's more counters, but a charge and divine shield will always get the job done and it'll force another card or trade 9/10 times.
Shattered Sun Cleric may see less use due to being more susceptible to early game removal (See: Wrath, Cleave, Claw, Consecrate, Argent Protector, Stormforge Axe, Demonfire, Lightning Storm), but it's still a solid card none-the-less. It only falls in line as a 3 mana 4/3 compared to the 4/4 it was before. Give me another 3 mana minion with that much surprise factor in terms of instant presence and trading value when it hits the board! Throw it on a Divine Shield, throw it on a cantrip, it still is dangerous as it used to be when it hits the board, just not as dangerous in terms of staying on the board and that merits an addition to a template deck as a basic card (remember it's a template, so cost is a factor). When you're looking through your 3 mana list right as you open your collection for the first time, it doesn't get any better than SSC to strengthen your first few deck.
Paladins happen to be in a tough spot right now, where they need to rely on a few less-that consistent cards to deal with the majority of aggression that comes out against them. They don't have a single answer that beats out general aggression, and in that lies a smaller weakness that popular decks tend to exploit. I think any well-crafted template deck can make it to 15~14, as this is where the majority of players tend to stay around. This is probably going to be many player's first wall then they make it to ranked.
As for exchanging cards, I personally find that swapping in few epics slowly will do well. Wild Pyromancer and Equality are also favorites, but looking into your first cards to craft, Lay on Hands and Avenging Wrath are two key cards that Paladins love. If you like Sword of Justice, definitely add in more early game - Knife Juggler is a favorite, Argent Protector follow-ups are excellent to Knife Juggler, Bloodsail Corsair is another amazing card for Paladin, those will get you far with Sword of Justice.
I definitely think two Stormwind Champions are too much, I wouldn't run that many and often times, I just tell the player making the deck to replace him for an epic. I just included a pair of him as it looks much cleaner on the OP. Pyro + Equality definitely should go under "card to consider", but it changes the dynamic of the deck slightly. I haven't touched up the opening post in a while, so I might as well go do that. Feel free to check back in about 10 minutes. Done.
Changes: -1 Stormwind +1 Blessing of Kings Added Pyro, Equality, Faerie Dragon under "Cards to Consider"
Sunwalker is simply an amazing card, it's a card for single-target removal, but you need late game and Sunwalker can seal the deal on a board quicker than most cards for the simple cost of a rare. If you aim to buff tokens and trade then off, then you reach late game without a strong minion pool due to an assumed limited amount of cards. For this reason I prefer Dark Iron Dwarf - especially with the stats of a 4/4 minion. Paladins have a very difficult time playing control without a high amount of legendaries and epics, they tend to give way to aggro instead and I think these cards support that role better.
All your advice should be taken into consideration, as it does provide some insight into trying cards that may be more efficient for your level of play, Frostwolf Warlords are a new player's favorite because lower leveled games don't pack so much single target removal and can win games - there's not many Warlock running around with Siphon Soul, you don't expect Warriors to use Brawl, you get the idea. Later on, the second a 6/6 hits the board, it's going off. You need to take one or two removals before you can keep a strong creature on the board.
As for other cards games, I've only played Yu-gi-oh and messed around with my friend's Damnation deck in MTG, nothing big. I just like to theorycraft, crunch numbers, and help out others, so here I am.
Cards to Consider Tirion Fordring - Your first legendary to work towards, no comparison in terms of board presence and game-closing power Lay on Hands - Your first epic to work towards, there's nothing that says "well met" like 3 draws and 8 health. Defender of Argus - Dark Iron Dwarf's more well-rounded cousin. Has everything you need and more. Faerie Dragon - If you feel that Oozes are too situational, you can feel free to sub in a Faerie Dragon Equality - Fulfills the removal that Paladin lacks, great to combo with board clear - dont have but i can create Wild Pyromancer - Used in tandem with Equality to clear the entire board.
Sword of Justice - i have 1x - should i change for truesilver champion?
I have card above.How could I change your deck in first post?
Hi Aishi, thanks for the deck. I'm playing right now the exact version of your Paladin Template Deck and it took me to rank 12 so far. How far do you think I can go before updating the deck or replacing it with one of your other decks for Paladin?
In truth, my Paladin decks aren't all that good for high-end gameplay, I never got a Tirion so I haven't invested much into Paladin decks as I would like. Maybe when I pick up a Tirion one day I'll be able to make something T1 worthy. It'll probably just be the basic hyper-control deck with a stronger emphasis on burn: Pyromancers, Equality, Avenging Wrath, Tirion, Rag, BGH, Aldor, TBK, Tinkmaster, you know the one.
As for how high you can get? Too many variables, but a consistent deck will climb slowly as they beat out the less consistent ones until you reach a level where everyone has a decent deck and is able to outplay predictable decks. You'll probably run into a snag as you're entering into single digits. Glad you're enjoying it.
Hi Nowere, I'm rank 11 and I played couple of times again charge Paladin deck. I'm not sure if the deck list is exactly like yours but similar purpose. I can beat them with Aishi's template deck, not easy though but possible. So if I can beat a deck without any legendary or epic, I think that deck needs some improvement. In my opinion, control Paladin is better than aggro.
After getting more dust, I've modified this deck slightly to add Leeroy, Rag, and 2 SoJ's. Do you think I removed the right cards? I figured Stormwind Champion would be somewhat redundant with SoJ and the Dark Iron Dwarves went because I had to fit the legendaries in somewhere.
Yep, Stormwind is only there to make up for the lack of late game, having two Stormwinds there lets you compete with the big dogs even without the major cards. Sword of Justice can be excellent with Stormwind Champion on the field and with the amount of low minions, could create a winning board state. You might mistake redundancy with synergy at first glance with SoJ and Stormwind - you'd have to test that. I wouldn't have two Sword of Justice, I suggest to toy around with the idea of a Stormwind Champion alongside it.
Two spellbreakers seem like overkill these days, I would personally cut one down and add another Argent Commander or Argent Protector, whatever you see fit in your experience. My first inclination is to put in another Argent Protector, he becomes insane once you get Sword of Justice out and even more with Stormwind Champion.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Took out one of the Sunwalkers for Lay on Hands. Great GREAT idea doing so. Late game gives me huge card advantage and yeah. It allowed a lot of wins that I wouldn't have had otherwise. Giving me that last push of extra health along with the opponent who was close to winning kicked in the teeth. Its a good change over all
Yep, Lay on Hands should be the first high-profile card you grab as Paladin, it's so damn good.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Just saw your post. You're right that there usually isn't a need for 2 spellbreakers, I just hold on to them because Trump and Co. incessantly swear by their amazing value. But I will remove 1 in favor of another Protector since Leeroy somewhat removes the need for 2 commanders. I'll also experiment with 1 Stormwind alongside 1 SoJ, although virtually every deck I've seen with SoJ always has a pair of them.
Yeah, because they have enough small minions to support two SoJ - usually along the line of Knife Jugglers and other weenies. One is just fine for a deck without too many low minions because you need to manage your durability in case a Truesilver needs to come out. If you want to try to add in Knife Jugglers in place of higher drops and add in other cards like Bloodsail Raider/Silver Hand Knight, a second SoJ can get some serious mileage.
As for silence: when you're playing in the upper echolons of MMR or in Arena, Silences often become more valuable due to the high amount of Legendaries/Control decks. In general constructed play, you see too many rush decks and other deck archetypes where a silence has minimal effect and a 4/3 minion gets eaten up pretty quickly.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
I would also like to point down that Silence could be used to remove Freeze from YOUR minions. It just saved me 2 times in a row.
real talk, silences help so much against mage
and priest, but you don't see those anymore because people hope off the OP train after nerf, lol
legit deck, i'm pretty happy w/ the results after adding tirion and lay on hands. I swapped out the higher health 4 drops for twilight drakes cause they are better in a high card deck like this with a few changes. also sun shattered clerics suck now so 2x scarlet crusader to replace her, very good card to replace her in general
keep up the good work as always
This Paladin deck is working really well for me for low ranks as I've pretty much just started. I made the following substitutions due to not having the cards...
-2 Aldor Peacekeeper
+2 Boulderfist Ogre
-2 Sunwalker
+2 Novice Engineer
-1 Silver Hand Knight
+1 Azure Drake (because I have it in gold ^_^)
I went with Novice Engineer because she seems perfect here, a low cost minion that replaces itself with the potential to trade up with buffs. I also did
-1 Stormwind Champion
+1 Scarlet Crusader
But I do have a Lay on Hands and you guys seem to think it's pretty good so I might try it out. I'm wary of it's 8-cost though, this deck has a lot of good combinations of 4-drops for t8.
Just play Lay on Hands, the value speaks for itself and there will be situations where you'll play LoH and realize it yourself. Experience speaks best! Azure Drake is da bomb. Not many strong, splashable 5 drops in the game, Azure is one of them.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Here is my rendition that is doing well so far, first paladin deck i've played and its actually doing well :)
Aishi, what is your opinion about the deck due to the changes of Argent and Sun Cleric and due to the others conditions?
Argent Commander has the same use in my eyes - there's more counters, but a charge and divine shield will always get the job done and it'll force another card or trade 9/10 times.
Shattered Sun Cleric may see less use due to being more susceptible to early game removal (See: Wrath, Cleave, Claw, Consecrate, Argent Protector, Stormforge Axe, Demonfire, Lightning Storm), but it's still a solid card none-the-less. It only falls in line as a 3 mana 4/3 compared to the 4/4 it was before. Give me another 3 mana minion with that much surprise factor in terms of instant presence and trading value when it hits the board! Throw it on a Divine Shield, throw it on a cantrip, it still is dangerous as it used to be when it hits the board, just not as dangerous in terms of staying on the board and that merits an addition to a template deck as a basic card (remember it's a template, so cost is a factor). When you're looking through your 3 mana list right as you open your collection for the first time, it doesn't get any better than SSC to strengthen your first few deck.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Paladins happen to be in a tough spot right now, where they need to rely on a few less-that consistent cards to deal with the majority of aggression that comes out against them. They don't have a single answer that beats out general aggression, and in that lies a smaller weakness that popular decks tend to exploit. I think any well-crafted template deck can make it to 15~14, as this is where the majority of players tend to stay around. This is probably going to be many player's first wall then they make it to ranked.
As for exchanging cards, I personally find that swapping in few epics slowly will do well. Wild Pyromancer and Equality are also favorites, but looking into your first cards to craft, Lay on Hands and Avenging Wrath are two key cards that Paladins love. If you like Sword of Justice, definitely add in more early game - Knife Juggler is a favorite, Argent Protector follow-ups are excellent to Knife Juggler, Bloodsail Corsair is another amazing card for Paladin, those will get you far with Sword of Justice.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
I definitely think two Stormwind Champions are too much, I wouldn't run that many and often times, I just tell the player making the deck to replace him for an epic. I just included a pair of him as it looks much cleaner on the OP. Pyro + Equality definitely should go under "card to consider", but it changes the dynamic of the deck slightly. I haven't touched up the opening post in a while, so I might as well go do that.
Feel free to check back in about 10 minutes. Done.Changes:
-1 Stormwind
+1 Blessing of Kings
Added Pyro, Equality, Faerie Dragon under "Cards to Consider"
Sunwalker is simply an amazing card, it's a card for single-target removal, but you need late game and Sunwalker can seal the deal on a board quicker than most cards for the simple cost of a rare. If you aim to buff tokens and trade then off, then you reach late game without a strong minion pool due to an assumed limited amount of cards. For this reason I prefer Dark Iron Dwarf - especially with the stats of a 4/4 minion. Paladins have a very difficult time playing control without a high amount of legendaries and epics, they tend to give way to aggro instead and I think these cards support that role better.
All your advice should be taken into consideration, as it does provide some insight into trying cards that may be more efficient for your level of play, Frostwolf Warlords are a new player's favorite because lower leveled games don't pack so much single target removal and can win games - there's not many Warlock running around with Siphon Soul, you don't expect Warriors to use Brawl, you get the idea. Later on, the second a 6/6 hits the board, it's going off. You need to take one or two removals before you can keep a strong creature on the board.
As for other cards games, I've only played Yu-gi-oh and messed around with my friend's Damnation deck in MTG, nothing big. I just like to theorycraft, crunch numbers, and help out others, so here I am.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Hello,
Cards to Consider
Tirion Fordring - Your first legendary to work towards, no comparison in terms of board presence and game-closing power
Lay on Hands - Your first epic to work towards, there's nothing that says "well met" like 3 draws and 8 health.
Defender of Argus - Dark Iron Dwarf's more well-rounded cousin. Has everything you need and more.
Faerie Dragon - If you feel that Oozes are too situational, you can feel free to sub in a Faerie Dragon
Equality - Fulfills the removal that Paladin lacks, great to combo with board clear - dont have but i can create
Wild Pyromancer - Used in tandem with Equality to clear the entire board.
Sword of Justice - i have 1x - should i change for truesilver champion?
I have card above.How could I change your deck in first post?
Thank you.
Hi Aishi, thanks for the deck. I'm playing right now the exact version of your Paladin Template Deck and it took me to rank 12 so far. How far do you think I can go before updating the deck or replacing it with one of your other decks for Paladin?
In truth, my Paladin decks aren't all that good for high-end gameplay, I never got a Tirion so I haven't invested much into Paladin decks as I would like. Maybe when I pick up a Tirion one day I'll be able to make something T1 worthy. It'll probably just be the basic hyper-control deck with a stronger emphasis on burn: Pyromancers, Equality, Avenging Wrath, Tirion, Rag, BGH, Aldor, TBK, Tinkmaster, you know the one.
As for how high you can get? Too many variables, but a consistent deck will climb slowly as they beat out the less consistent ones until you reach a level where everyone has a decent deck and is able to outplay predictable decks. You'll probably run into a snag as you're entering into single digits. Glad you're enjoying it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Hi Nowere, I'm rank 11 and I played couple of times again charge Paladin deck. I'm not sure if the deck list is exactly like yours but similar purpose. I can beat them with Aishi's template deck, not easy though but possible. So if I can beat a deck without any legendary or epic, I think that deck needs some improvement. In my opinion, control Paladin is better than aggro.
Hi Aishi, I'm rank 10 now with your deck and I opened SoJ yesterday. Do you recommend me to play it and if yes which to replace?