There's literally already a UTH-Buzzardless deck making an appearance on front page post nerf on legend. (granted I do not agree with the double hunter's mark without Unleash the Skill / Boar) Not every deck will get its chance in the sun. Let's just face it. Hunter is doing just fine- a different approach just needs to be taken. Hunter will still be crushing Handlocks and Shamans once they return, and they will still wrek Freeze Mages if they ever return.
Hunter plays a nice role as the counter class now. It fills a suitable niche in a metagame without being absolute faceroll on every matchup. Hunter is still in a good place.
Admittedly, the no buzzard-uth deck is weaker now because no one will counterplay starving unleash. But yeah, hunter's in a fine place at the moment. Something problematic was essentially removed, and the meta should head to a rather wonderful state following it.
What makes most decks good in a ccg is the ability to reliably draw a lot. especially in Hearthstone. A big draw engine is what gives a deck gas to last against other decks. Miracle Rogues have the Auctioneer, Warlocks have their hero ability, druids have ancients of lore/drakes/nourish etc the list goes on. Despite common belief; hunter doesn't actually have a reliable method to draw a ton of cards outside of the UtH combo. The UtH combo is almost worst than sprint from a rogue since the nerf. Do I think Hunter is unplayable? No but it definitely went from being top tier to one of the worst decks. Until someone builds a hunter deck with another reliable draw engine or Blizzard finds a reasonable way to allow hunters to draw cards; you're not going to be seeing a lot of hunters in the meta... That's my 2 cents you can agree or disagree.
They could literally have done something as simple as when a beast dies, draw at end of turn, cap the draws, make buzzard 1 mana more even and that would have been a good nerf. If their goal was to lower number of hunters win % overall with the UtH combo, then a small nerf that brings hunter to the level or even slightly under the level of other meta decks win % is all that is needed.
Instead they just tanked the damn class to where the ONLY playable type now is a UtHBuzzardless face or a horrible performing midrange (the mid range isn't good for current meta).
Rather than "FORCE" the meta in a certain direction of linear board controlly midrange play, Blizzard should be doing the opposite and catering to alternative play styles and decisive decktypes and matchups with nerfs based around win %s rather than play styles. That is what this nerf was, the destruction of a playstyle. They say facing hounds was unfun? No, getting pinged by priest or having to ping warrior control slowly over a 15 minute game to in the end have the game be decided by the draw order on turn 9+ is what I call unfun.
OP, I wrote the same type of thread a few days ago and got ripped on. Well actually I put " Hunters are stronger than they were before the nerf" and that is becuase they are due to the fact that this new hybrid of Cancer/Undertaker Hunter is hands down the most scariest and fast killing deck to date. Zoo Lock has nothing on this Undertaker Hunter, and as soon as people realize that then we will see 65% Hunters again.
And wat Omnislash wrote in his thread about decks needing a good card draw to be top dog is absolutely correct, howerver, wat he forgot to mention is that Hunter IMO has the best natural mana curve of any of the classes and Hunters never really do run out of cards. They may get a bit low ( 2-3 in their hand ) but their mana curve is almost flawless, so those 2-3 cards will surely fit well and will be needed at that very time.
OP, you are very correct when you say Hunter is in a good spot, indeed they are, and they would have to nerf about 5 more Hunter cards just for Hunter to be at the same level as the other 8 classes.
I hate to burst your bubble but just hitting legend isn't impressive or hard for that matter... You literally only need a 50.1% win rate to hit legend. It's a grind and a matter of investing your time into this game more than anything so please hop off of your high horse and quit pretending your opinion matters more than everyone else's because it doesn't. Not everyone who hits legend in this game knows whats best for the other 99.9% of the community.
Hunter's only viability right now is in an Undertaker/Mad Scientist Face strategy...and like Zoolock, if you don't win by turn 6/7...things get really dicey because you're usually out of cards. If you don't get an Undertaker or Mad Scientist in your starting had, the percentage of winning goes way down. With no UtH/SB combo, Hunter's can't replenish their hand and have to rely on the 'Heart of the Cards,' if you will.
Post Nerf, I used Mad Scientist/Face Hunter from Ranks 4-1 because all the Handlocks...simple as that. Once Legend though, everyone is testing new synergy and Deathrattle strategies. Yesterday, I came across an interesting Deathrattle Rogue Deck...really liked seeing a refreshing different deck being tested (he/she was rank 800+, but still loved they were trying). Something I've seen more since the weekend. The new Meta is still defining itself a bit, but since it's the last days of the Month/Season, people are probably just testing their new ideas for the next upcoming one.
Zoolock at least gets to draw two cards a turn at turn 6/7, if they haven't won or have board control...I've been at Legend for 3 days now, I've seen Hunters twice...A lot of Meta are trying to make Secrets Mage work, and tons of Druid in my experience so far...
OP, you are very correct when you say Hunter is in a good spot, indeed they are, and they would have to nerf about 5 more Hunter cards just for Hunter to be at the same level as the other 8 classes.
Which cards are you talking about? I can't see Hunter needing another nerf. The only thing I am facing around rank 4 is control warriors and annoying priests and bot shamis.
Hello Hall, I main Hunter ( and still do after the nerf ) but IMO there are a few cards that need to be looked at, but the main one is Flare. I feel that if they took " draw a card " off of Flare, then it would be much more of a fair card. Is it not enough that it takes all minions out of steath so you can deal with them, and it wrecks all secrets, no matter how many secrets the person has up they are all destroyed.
No other class in the game can pull off wat Hunter can, and I am telling you this right now! These new face Hunters you see slowly popping up will be 10 times worse than the old UTH/Buzzard midrange Hunters ever were. When these Undertaker face Hunters don't get the cards they need, you are dead by turn 7, and when they get their cards on a good mana curve, you're dead by turn 4-5.
Agree with OP. Hunter's got an excellent niche as an aggro deck, which doesn't need UtH nor Unleash at all. Yeah, it makes the class a lot worse for ladder, but it's still a clever choice for tournaments if you have it in your back pocket. Aggro decks have always been able to steal a series of games in such settings, and if the class gets banned, it just means you have 3 other threatening decks you can field.
I used to play hunter a lot (I loved it), until I started playing other classes, and I quickly realized that hunter is really broken compared to most of the other classes... Savannah Highmane is way too powerful for its cost, Houndmaster is as well, Hunter's Mark is definitely too strong for a 0 mana card, and even Kill Command is pushing it in terms of just how much pure face damage that hunter has at its disposal... The traps (freezing and explosive) are incredibly effective, Flare and Tracking are excellent, and even just the hero power promotes no interactivity - it just benefits the face face face strategy that's really infuriating, whether I'm playing Druid, Shaman, Priest, Warlock, or Rogue.
To sum it all up, I don't feel like this nerf is too much for the class - honestly, I'm still leaning towards the idea that Hunter is still a little bit too strong.
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There's literally already a UTH-Buzzardless deck making an appearance on front page post nerf on legend. (granted I do not agree with the double hunter's mark without Unleash the Skill / Boar) Not every deck will get its chance in the sun. Let's just face it. Hunter is doing just fine- a different approach just needs to be taken. Hunter will still be crushing Handlocks and Shamans once they return, and they will still wrek Freeze Mages if they ever return.
Hunter plays a nice role as the counter class now. It fills a suitable niche in a metagame without being absolute faceroll on every matchup. Hunter is still in a good place.
Admittedly, the no buzzard-uth deck is weaker now because no one will counterplay starving unleash.
But yeah, hunter's in a fine place at the moment. Something problematic was essentially removed, and the meta should head to a rather wonderful state following it.
What makes most decks good in a ccg is the ability to reliably draw a lot. especially in Hearthstone. A big draw engine is what gives a deck gas to last against other decks. Miracle Rogues have the Auctioneer, Warlocks have their hero ability, druids have ancients of lore/drakes/nourish etc the list goes on. Despite common belief; hunter doesn't actually have a reliable method to draw a ton of cards outside of the UtH combo. The UtH combo is almost worst than sprint from a rogue since the nerf. Do I think Hunter is unplayable? No but it definitely went from being top tier to one of the worst decks. Until someone builds a hunter deck with another reliable draw engine or Blizzard finds a reasonable way to allow hunters to draw cards; you're not going to be seeing a lot of hunters in the meta... That's my 2 cents you can agree or disagree.
Agree with you 100%.
They could literally have done something as simple as when a beast dies, draw at end of turn, cap the draws, make buzzard 1 mana more even and that would have been a good nerf. If their goal was to lower number of hunters win % overall with the UtH combo, then a small nerf that brings hunter to the level or even slightly under the level of other meta decks win % is all that is needed.
Instead they just tanked the damn class to where the ONLY playable type now is a UtHBuzzardless face or a horrible performing midrange (the mid range isn't good for current meta).
Rather than "FORCE" the meta in a certain direction of linear board controlly midrange play, Blizzard should be doing the opposite and catering to alternative play styles and decisive decktypes and matchups with nerfs based around win %s rather than play styles. That is what this nerf was, the destruction of a playstyle. They say facing hounds was unfun? No, getting pinged by priest or having to ping warrior control slowly over a 15 minute game to in the end have the game be decided by the draw order on turn 9+ is what I call unfun.
OP, I wrote the same type of thread a few days ago and got ripped on. Well actually I put " Hunters are stronger than they were before the nerf" and that is becuase they are due to the fact that this new hybrid of Cancer/Undertaker Hunter is hands down the most scariest and fast killing deck to date. Zoo Lock has nothing on this Undertaker Hunter, and as soon as people realize that then we will see 65% Hunters again.
And wat Omnislash wrote in his thread about decks needing a good card draw to be top dog is absolutely correct, howerver, wat he forgot to mention is that Hunter IMO has the best natural mana curve of any of the classes and Hunters never really do run out of cards. They may get a bit low ( 2-3 in their hand ) but their mana curve is almost flawless, so those 2-3 cards will surely fit well and will be needed at that very time.
OP, you are very correct when you say Hunter is in a good spot, indeed they are, and they would have to nerf about 5 more Hunter cards just for Hunter to be at the same level as the other 8 classes.
I hate to burst your bubble but just hitting legend isn't impressive or hard for that matter... You literally only need a 50.1% win rate to hit legend. It's a grind and a matter of investing your time into this game more than anything so please hop off of your high horse and quit pretending your opinion matters more than everyone else's because it doesn't. Not everyone who hits legend in this game knows whats best for the other 99.9% of the community.
Hunter's only viability right now is in an Undertaker/Mad Scientist Face strategy...and like Zoolock, if you don't win by turn 6/7...things get really dicey because you're usually out of cards. If you don't get an Undertaker or Mad Scientist in your starting had, the percentage of winning goes way down. With no UtH/SB combo, Hunter's can't replenish their hand and have to rely on the 'Heart of the Cards,' if you will.
Post Nerf, I used Mad Scientist/Face Hunter from Ranks 4-1 because all the Handlocks...simple as that. Once Legend though, everyone is testing new synergy and Deathrattle strategies. Yesterday, I came across an interesting Deathrattle Rogue Deck...really liked seeing a refreshing different deck being tested (he/she was rank 800+, but still loved they were trying). Something I've seen more since the weekend. The new Meta is still defining itself a bit, but since it's the last days of the Month/Season, people are probably just testing their new ideas for the next upcoming one.
Zoolock at least gets to draw two cards a turn at turn 6/7, if they haven't won or have board control...I've been at Legend for 3 days now, I've seen Hunters twice...A lot of Meta are trying to make Secrets Mage work, and tons of Druid in my experience so far...
Which cards are you talking about? I can't see Hunter needing another nerf. The only thing I am facing around rank 4 is control warriors and annoying priests and bot shamis.
Hello Hall, I main Hunter ( and still do after the nerf ) but IMO there are a few cards that need to be looked at, but the main one is Flare. I feel that if they took " draw a card " off of Flare, then it would be much more of a fair card. Is it not enough that it takes all minions out of steath so you can deal with them, and it wrecks all secrets, no matter how many secrets the person has up they are all destroyed.
No other class in the game can pull off wat Hunter can, and I am telling you this right now! These new face Hunters you see slowly popping up will be 10 times worse than the old UTH/Buzzard midrange Hunters ever were. When these Undertaker face Hunters don't get the cards they need, you are dead by turn 7, and when they get their cards on a good mana curve, you're dead by turn 4-5.
Agree with OP. Hunter's got an excellent niche as an aggro deck, which doesn't need UtH nor Unleash at all. Yeah, it makes the class a lot worse for ladder, but it's still a clever choice for tournaments if you have it in your back pocket. Aggro decks have always been able to steal a series of games in such settings, and if the class gets banned, it just means you have 3 other threatening decks you can field.
I used to play hunter a lot (I loved it), until I started playing other classes, and I quickly realized that hunter is really broken compared to most of the other classes... Savannah Highmane is way too powerful for its cost, Houndmaster is as well, Hunter's Mark is definitely too strong for a 0 mana card, and even Kill Command is pushing it in terms of just how much pure face damage that hunter has at its disposal... The traps (freezing and explosive) are incredibly effective, Flare and Tracking are excellent, and even just the hero power promotes no interactivity - it just benefits the face face face strategy that's really infuriating, whether I'm playing Druid, Shaman, Priest, Warlock, or Rogue.
To sum it all up, I don't feel like this nerf is too much for the class - honestly, I'm still leaning towards the idea that Hunter is still a little bit too strong.