Another Ramp Druid (Top 13 NA Ladder, 95% win ratio)

  • #1 (Beta Patch 3937)

    Hey guys, I'm here to show you a deck I've been playing a bit these days, after watching some vids from the ManaGrind tournaments.

    I've played Druid before, more lategame control with Ironbarks, but the abundance of Priest Controls and my lack of Ancients and some bad cards I had in my deck, lead me to a really bad win ratio (20 points below my average) and I felt the class overall was extremely weak.

    Since then, I crafted some rares, made a couple of really strong decks with +85% winratio (Pally and Warlock Aggro) and decided to give Druid another try.

    With the meta shifting to insanely fast aggro decks and few to none Priest Control and single target minion destruction (like Poly or Assasinate), I thought maybe give Ramp Druid a try? Plus it's fun and a very different experience from the traditional aggro Cleric Dwarf Argus deck.

    Without any more introduction, the decklist:

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    Minion (18) Ability (12)


    So far, I've played it around 25-30 games and haven't lost. 
    I had some very bad hands (4 minions of cost 4+), and still recovered fast enough and hold my ground.

    It needs more playtest against Aggro decks since I haven't been facing that many, but the ones I did, I outlasted with the early Druid of the Claws, Tazdingos and Sunwalkers. The ramp is really strong against aggro decks and the Druid's AoE is premier.

    Nourish is necessity to replenish your hand against control decks so I wouldn't take it out.

    POSSIBLE REPLACEMENTS:
    Thalnos > Hogger
    Ragnaros > Ysera
    Ancient of War = Sunwalkers (Risky because you can't play Swipe or KotG in the same turn) 
    Most 2 drops for Novice Engineer: Faerie Dragon, Acidic Swamp Ooze, Power of the Wild) Experimental, might work better against aggro and worse against control.
    Starfall can be changed for Starfires but I would be really worried about swarm decks. Although it's one of the least useful rares on this deck.

    I would love to add a Thalnos once I get it, and possibly a Ragnaros too, for Ysera.

    Having mostly 2 of everything gives the deck consistency, and the toolbox is big enough to hold most types of decks.

    I don't have the Ancients to playtest them but so far I've been doing so well that I don't know how would they perform. Although if you have AoW, they are natural Sunwalker replacements. Lores are harder to fit due to no Taunt, but can fill for Ysera and Hogger if you don't have those.

     

    Any comment is welcome :)

    Last edited by BanderitaUSA on 11/25/2013 8:12:24 PM
  • #2 (Beta Patch 3937)

    Some evidence of the deck strength:

    http://oi42.tinypic.com/2qtkgsm.jpg

    http://oi40.tinypic.com/bjfhxd.jpg

    25 wins straight that day, had 20 the day before and lost one only at the end, so 45-1, pretty decent. 
    Masters3 of course.

  • #3 (Beta Patch 3937)

    I'd like to give this a try once I get the cards. Grats.

    Last edited by Lenor on 11/22/2013 7:20:54 PM
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  • #4 (Beta Patch 3937)

    If you get rag, thalnos and ysera then it's not much different than http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/class-discussion/druid/2303-druid-draw-3-star-masters-deck

    I'm using alternate versions of that with ancient of lores instead of nourish, I just like to put minions on the board instead of wasting most and all of the mana in a turn to draw cards. 

  • #5 (Beta Patch 3937)

    You are right that it's pretty close and I would love to have Ragnaros and Bloodmage on this deck instead of Ysera and Hogger (both too slow), but I don't own them.

    Although, there a few different choices in the decks that break it appart:

    2x Wild Growth: This is what makes the deck Ramp, it gives you a really strong turn 3 and 4, and you will almost always get the initiative back from your opponent, going first or second doesn't matter (unless against another Ramp).

    No Claw: I used to love Claw, versatile card that lets you do nifty tricks with your Hero Power, early removal and what not. Thing is, if you are ramping, you shouldn't have a 1 mana spell that does almost nothing lategame, and having the card associated to your Hero Power is actually bad since you can't target multiple things, which is crucial in this metagame: your Hero Power should be only used to take care of 1 life minions, nothing more. Every card is important in slowing down the enemy until you can overrun him with 4 damage minions.

    No Naturalize: Too much of a penalty and I've never had any trouble eliminating any threat. Only Ysera and Malygos can be hard to deal with if you don't have any big minions down (which is really hard to happen since when Opponent hits 9 mana, you did that 3 turns ago and played like 4-5 4 attack minions).

    No Starfire: 6 Mana is really steep for single target removal. If needed, Starfall will do the same, for 1 less and no draw. The draw is good but isn't necessary most often (enough draw from the rest, 2 Nourishes!) and the 6 mana cost means you can only play 4 mana the rest of the turn, which limits your options severely. 

    No Ironbark or Lore: The cost is prohibitive. You know why Mind Control is bad? Because it takes your whole turn. Guess who does that too? Ironbark. And with no immediate effect, so it gets poly and you just lost your turn, it's like you just gave your opponent a free turn, not good. And it's easily tradeable for 2 4s, so it's not that strong.

     

    The thing about this deck is that you get to 10 mana really fast, and then you can start dropping 2 5 mana cost cards per turn:

    Azure Drake + Starfall

    Double Druid of the Claw

    Nourish + Drake or Druid of the Claw

    And suddenly you get 3 more cards and a 4/4 or 4/6 and your opponent is sitting at 7-8 mana. Too hard to stop.

     

    Anyways, I got to top 13 NA this week which is really awesome, and this deck has a lot to do with it (+95% win ratio).

  • #6 (Beta Patch 3937)

    This deck is working out pretty well for me. I'm missing a few cards so I substituted cenarius for ysera, black knight for a missing sunwalker, a silver hand knight for hogger, and a starfire for a missing starfall. 

    The first few times I played, I was always having to choose between wild growth or a minion on turns 2-5. What is your thought process in those situations? I tend to wild growth if I think my opponent is control, and minion if they are aggro, but are there any specific subtleties you take into account?

  • #7 (Beta Patch 3937)

    Turn 2 will always be Wild Growth if you have it in hand. If you get it afterwards you will generally lose too much tempo to play it, so save it for a turn you have 2 mana free and no need to Hero Power.

    The replacements seem OK, I would like to test either Cenarius or Ragnaros for Ysera, kick Hogger out and put a Bloodmage Thalnos.
    You can put anything instead of the Hogger/Silver Hand Knight, just a high mana cost one so it works in Ramp (Don't fall for Claw since it's a lot worse than it looks like).

     

  • #8 (Beta Patch 3937)

    Claw is pivotal in today's meta where 70 percent of players in masters play some sort of early game rush/aggro decks. claw help you slow them down until mid - late game where druids shine with those 4/6 taunts. starfalls, swipes. Of course having ennervate will get you there sooner, but you can't always rely on it. Claw is another option to deal with early rushes. 

    Like I said I run a slight alternate of the Druid Draw deck, without Ironbarks. and only 1 naturalize. Naturalize comes in handy to counter big mind control plays, which will allow you to finish off your opponent in 1-2 turns which is why Starfire is more useful because it's direct damage and can be used on the hero to finish them off. 

    I've been trying out your deck also and seems to get about the same results but i'm especially weak against early game rushes. Maybe you have some tips for me?

  • #9 (Beta Patch 3937)

    Never had any trouble with rushes, the only decks I've lost to are Hunter OTKs because I'm too slow to kill them before turn 7.

    The opening hand is important  in order to survive, and it depends on which class you are going against:

    Good cards to have in your opening hand: Wild Growth, Wrath, Harvest Golem, Novice Engineer.

    Try to avoid Innervate and Wild Growth at the same time, and try to get a taunter in the board fast. Keep their minion count low with Swipes and Hero Power and that's it.

    You get way fast to turn 5 with this deck to use early cards like Claw that lose you tempo. I haven't found myself without answers against aggro decks even when I had hands like Druid of the Claw, Azure Drake, Sunwalker.

     

  • #10 (Beta Patch 3937)

    Regarding your 95% win percentage, but with the amount of high cost cards in this deck, how can you really be at 95% win rate?  You gotta figure that there's more than a 1/20 chance that you draw all 6 + cards without any ramp in your hand.  Versus most aggro, I would imagine this puts you way too far behind.

    Edit: Just tried a couple of games, I mulliganed my opening hand of 6+ cards, to get another hand of 5+ cards 2 games in a row.  Lost to rush decks.

    Last edited by FifthBusiness on 11/24/2013 7:36:31 PM
  • #11 (Beta Patch 3937)

    This deck is just faceroll. Gz man. If your opponent can't destroy you in 3-4 turns, it's easy win.

    Again, I wish I had dust to craft legendaries. =|

    Donate to charity and get top games for free @ http://gamingforgood.net/

  • #12 (Beta Patch 3937)

    Most often you can stabilize even after really bad hand openers, which I said on this thread somewhere.

    But yes, you don't have to use it if you don't want it, the win ratio is true and that's the reason I got to top 13 on the NA ladder, and  I faced many strong rush decks with it and they all fell flat after 2-3 turns of constant big taunts.

     

  • #13 (Beta Patch 3937)

    Hi.

    Would it be possible to update the original post with some of your suggestions on substitute cards for people who don't have all of them (or only have one of a particular card that you have 2 of)?

  • #14 (Beta Patch 3937)

    There you go CCninja86, if you have any particular case you wanna discuss, just shoot.

  • #15 (Beta Patch 3937)

    Force posted your deck!

     

  • #16 (Beta Patch 3937)

    I specifically created an account to thank you for sharing such a great deck! I've gone through quite a bit of Druid decks now and I'd have to say that this particular deck is the most stable and in this game, that means a whole lot. Even when it feels like you're behind, you aren't really. Most of the times anyway. I have replaced both Hogger and Ysera with Bloodmage Thalnos and Ragnaros the Firelord.

    I do however, would like to make a few suggestions. I've never really been a big fan of Sen'jin Shieldmasta. It's a 4-drop that can easily be taken out in a number of ways, but it's especially bad against Priests who I run into quite often. Without any real buffs for this card, not that it it'd be a good idea anyway, it falls short more often than not.

    I feel like almost every deck should have at least 1 Acidic Swamp Ooze. Great 2 drop! This card has been so good to me especially against Paladins! I used Big Game Hunter in my previous deck just in case things got out of control. Without cards like Naturalize, another one in which I am not a big fan of, it's a great replacement. However, cards like Tirion Fordring just barely fall short of snipe range. To be completely honest, Druid's late game is very one-dimensional. So far it seems like Ragnaros the Firelord is one of only a few viable options available. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough, but I still have a lot to learn. Luckily for me, I have just about every card at my disposal.

    Wild Growth is such a great card. I've never really utilized it. Only downside of this card is that it has to be obtained early. After playing around with it, I feel like you don't really need more than one of these. If you get it, great, if you don't, it's still fine. It can be used to draw an extra card if you're filled up on mana crystals for a cost of 2. This deck has great draw power and this is probably what I love most about it.

    I am still brain-storming ideas of cards to replace the ones I've mentioned. I've spent a lot of time doing so, because I feel that this deck is worth it, at least until we can somehow find a better functioning one. Great deck and let me know what you think!

  • #17 (Beta Patch 3937)

    Quote from FifthBusiness »

    Regarding your 95% win percentage, but with the amount of high cost cards in this deck, how can you really be at 95% win rate?  You gotta figure that there's more than a 1/20 chance that you draw all 6 + cards without any ramp in your hand.  Versus most aggro, I would imagine this puts you way too far behind.

    Edit: Just tried a couple of games, I mulliganed my opening hand of 6+ cards, to get another hand of 5+ cards 2 games in a row.  Lost to rush decks.

    obviously he doesn't have a 95% win ratio over a large enough sample size (50+ games) in ranked games, just out here to get some attention he apparently needs badly.

  • #18 (Beta Patch 3937)

    When I posted this deck I was at 31-0 (25-0 streak screenshot on this same thread), after updating the name I was 40-2, losing to a MurLOCK and a Hunter OTK (95%)

    Now I've lost a couple more games, seeming that my MMR is high so I'm facing people with very strong decks, with a score of 58-5 (Warlock Aggro, Hunter OTK, Cantrip Rogue). Still a solid 92% and I'd guess a decent size sample? 

    Obviously it can be refined and adapted to the shifts in the meta as they are produced. 

    Senjin Shieldmaster is generally used to hold off for a turn, but I agree he's one of the weakest links here, Arcanite Reaper, Shadow Word: Pain, any 3 drop with an Iron Dwarf, Kill Command, etc. A possible replacement would be Mogu'shan Warden, but I can't tell how it would work given it's minimal attack and how much more mileage would the extra 2 life get. I'm thinking that Abomination can be a really good card in this deck, although having that many 5 drops is a big risk. Twilight Drakes? Although no taunt hurts, they work best in a buff oriented Druid deck.

    For the moment, though, there aren't many good defensive 4 drops, so Tazdingo is the only option, and you need 4 drops if you get no Innervate or Wild Growth. You can sub one Naturalize for a Wild Growth and still do fine I guess, you don't have any direct removal or silence against big gamechanging minions, so after the Mind Control nerf, when everyone gets back to their big drops, you'll have to sub in either Naturalize or BGH (or both!).

    Consider Power of the Wild as an alternative for Novice Engineer, it can give you decent board presence early and huge potential buff lategame, overall a flexible card. Haven't tested it yet but seems like a reasonable tradeoff. 

    Ancient of Lore is decent tech against Frost Mages which generally give you a hard time if you can't put pressure fast enough. Abomination buys you time against OTK, probably the hardest matchup for this deck since it's a slow, control based deck that won't be able to do much against no minions, and is easily overrun by turn 9-10 OTK.

    Cards that are replaceable / non essential: 1xStarfall, Hogger, Ysera, 2xNovice Engineer

    Replacements: Starfire, Ragnaros, Bloodmage Thalnos, Power of the Wild / Acidic Swamp Ooze / Faerie Dragon 

     

  • #19 (Beta Patch 3937)

    After a bit more of playing around with the deck, while not running into any OTK Hunters, my highest loss ratio was to Frost spec Mages. Although it's still 4-2 in my favor. I do well against Palys as long as I save my silences: Keeper of the Grove, although that's the routine to follow for every other class.

    I also have to save Wrath, if I get it early, against Mages. Mana Wyrm gets out of control very quickly if left unattended. Not to mention, it's only a 1-drop. Insane. Ancient of Lore could be a potential replacement, but it's a costly card. I almost feel that by the time I can even drop this card, a Mage should be able to burn me down in the next couple of turns. Also, like you've mentioned before, this deck's strength lies heavily in the fact that you're able to play multiple cost-efficient cards in one turn. So unless you have Innervate to combo with Ancient of Lore, it's going to be a relatively weak turn.

    I don't think I'd get rid of Novice Engineer. Strictly due to the early draw power. I do however, feel that this decks early game is quite weak, so in that sense Loot Hoarder would be a tremendous replacement. Those early 3 HP monsters are doing a number on me and with Loot Hoarder plus Hero Power, I won't have to waste Wrath. Also, I could get rid of any 3-2's.

    Strong mid game. Wild Growth assists us in getting there quicker, but in most games, I've only ever really used it once for the extra mana crystal. Every other time, it was only for card draw. The only reason I'd put two in this deck at this point, is to increase my chances of getting it early. But even so, if my opponent gets good early cards, I can't drop it even if I have it. It's just too risky.

    I'm gonna change the deck up a bit and update you on how I'm doing. Thanks again!

    Last edited by muckspread on 11/26/2013 11:50:52 AM
  • #20 (Beta Patch 3937)

    I've been play testing this deck a lot more since I last posted and it's just not working out for me in Masters III Maybe it's just my play style, the druid draw deck works better for me, I just play better when there are more cards in my hand, my aggressive playstyle is better suited with heavy draws because I don't want to lose steam.

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