This is probably the wrong place to ask this, since i wouldnt be surprised if some of you wouldnt mind if blizzard took a huge steaming crap and gave it to you. BUT INCASE IT ISNT THE WRONG PLACE.......
What does this expansion need to do for it to be a success in your eyes? if worst case scenerio, there's only a few cards that are playable that have nothing to even do with the theme of the set, will you not care and still play? Would you maybe take a break? How much do you care about quality content rather than blizzard just releases SOMETHING AT ALL?
I have taken a huge break after blackrock because ultimately only 3 cards actually see play. That seems very low to me. Part of me thinks with the simpleness and the design flaws of this game, that it could be entirely possible that a expansion trying to "slow down the game" could be a complete flop.
What are you looking for in this expansion for it to be a success? Will you still play hearthstone even if the set contained 130 blank cards?
(and yes obviously we've seen VERY few cards, this is hypothetical, and i bring it up because imo blackrock was a complete flop)
This is probably the wrong place to ask this, since i wouldnt be surprised if some of you wouldnt mind if blizzard took a huge steaming crap and gave it to you. BUT INCASE IT ISNT THE WRONG PLACE.......
What does this expansion need to do for it to be a success in your eyes? if worst case scenerio, there's only a few cards that are playable that have nothing to even do with the theme of the set, will you not care and still play? Would you maybe take a break? How much do you care about quality content rather than blizzard just releases SOMETHING AT ALL?
I have taken a huge break after blackrock because ultimately only 3 cards actually see play. That seems very low to me. Part of me thinks with the simpleness and the design flaws of this game, that it could be entirely possible that a expansion trying to "slow down the game" could be a complete flop.
What are you looking for in this expansion for it to be a success? Will you still play hearthstone even if the set contained 130 blank cards?
(and yes obviously we've seen VERY few cards, this is hypothetical, and i bring it up because imo blackrock was a complete flop)
Wouldn't say blackrock is a complete flop, some of the cards do see alot of play. (10~used regularly, some others a little bit. Remember dark iron skulker? decent try at anti aggro but too expensive ^^ oh and it was a rogue only card)
To change the meta we need cards that counter the meta, this is where BRM went wrong mostly. Hopefully we'll see a handful of cards which allows people to counter aggressive decks otherwise it'll just continue. As you said: Inspire cards might be too slow and without effects to counter aggro\face. It needs to be effects which slows the game down. Maybe a 1\2 taunt with inspire: Summon another 1\2 taunt. heh i dunno. Or perhaps a neutral skulker costing 3 mana. Low cost AoE removal works too. (something better than arcane explosion).
However, it won't be a "flop", it won't fail entirely. I'm pretty sure we'll see several cards that will be used regardless of what the meta is.
I'm just happy there's no excessive power creeping.
I like how the original card set and basic class cards still provide very valuable cards. A new expansion replacing pretty much everything would be my personal nightmare.
In other words, I'm quite pleased with what I've seen so far. Useful, interesting but not OP.
Well said.
And those cards that don't become critical in constructed can certainly be useful in arena, the brawls, or just fun casual decks. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the cards in this expansion.
This is probably the wrong place to ask this, since i wouldnt be surprised if some of you wouldnt mind if blizzard took a huge steaming crap and gave it to you. BUT INCASE IT ISNT THE WRONG PLACE.......
What does this expansion need to do for it to be a success in your eyes? if worst case scenerio, there's only a few cards that are playable that have nothing to even do with the theme of the set, will you not care and still play? Would you maybe take a break? How much do you care about quality content rather than blizzard just releases SOMETHING AT ALL?
I have taken a huge break after blackrock because ultimately only 3 cards actually see play. That seems very low to me. Part of me thinks with the simpleness and the design flaws of this game, that it could be entirely possible that a expansion trying to "slow down the game" could be a complete flop.
What are you looking for in this expansion for it to be a success? Will you still play hearthstone even if the set contained 130 blank cards?
(and yes obviously we've seen VERY few cards, this is hypothetical, and i bring it up because imo blackrock was a complete flop)
For me seeing more classes be more viable at more archetypes in constructed is the most interesting part of the game. For reference cards like Echo of Medivh, Emperor Thaurissan and Grim Patron all contributed to this goal with (allowing for echo mage, decks like malygos lock, and patron warrior to appear.) In general they've already released a card that creates a completely new archetype for hunter and we haven't seen what other hunter cards might support this card draw combo hunter.
Beyond that some tools to let control decks be good enough to actually function. It takes warrior the single best weapon in the game (by a massive margin), 20 points of armor gain that can exceed maximum health to stand a chance.
BRM wasn't a complete flop but you have to admit that none of the more influential cards from the set has something to do with Dragons. That was a fail if you ask me and so far with the few cards we have seen it looks like it's going to be the same ,the new mechanic it's going to be for "fun" gimmick decks and a few cards that have nothing to do with it are going to be used on constructed and I dont think that as a developer you can be happy with that.
I've been pleased with the cards I've seen. They look interesting by and large. Fun to play with. Fun to try and get to work.
Have I seen a Dr. Boom yet? Probably not. Am I ok with that? Yup.
Not every Hearthstone player is a Legend ranked Pro player that lives for tournaments and their weekly podcast. Some of us will like the set if it's not a meta breaker, but, just introduces abundent new ideas and strategies to test out. I'd much rather some of these interesting inspire cards than see them create a vanilla 5/5 or 4 or something like that. I mean a vanilla 5/5 for 4 would see a ton of play, where some of these inspire cards probably wont, but, it really woudln't be any fun.
This expansion needs to be one thing for it to be a success in my eyes: Fun.
It needs unique things that let me make unique decks, that's all. Hearthstone is the card game I play to have fun (and if I need to win a lot I just play my control warrior deck.)
Is it not possible to create new decks in a competitive metagame while also making them fun? That is what I generally want out of this set. I dont want another set where they are clearly pushing something, but that thing isnt even good. I've played card games for maybe 18 years if not more, and it HAS been done, competitive decks that include fun cards.
Is it not possible to create new decks in a competitive metagame while also making them fun? That is what I generally want out of this set. I dont want another set where they are clearly pushing something, but that thing isnt even good. I've played card games for maybe 18 years if not more, and it HAS been done, competitive decks that include fun cards.
If you would be so kind, can you list out some "fun cards" as an example?
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"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
Well, since you took a 'huge break' you might have missed that you are completely wrong about it being a flop.
First things first, the campaign was fun. Lets move onto the cards:
There are 5 cards that are indisputably very common sites at high legend ranks including a meta changing Grim Patron and Flame Walker.
They made a very fun slightly lower tier decks of dragons. There are a few iterations of this but Paladin seems to be the most solid.
It had lots of cards that may see future play depending on class buffs. Shaman preview cards have been pretty solid which may lead to you seeing a lot of Fireguard Destroyer.
Gang Up has resulted in a not hugely successful but a very prominent fun deck of Mill Rogue. Lots of people have tried to find ways to abuse the card resulting in lots of play and theory crafting around it. I'm sure you'll hear lots of chatter about it in future expansions as rogues dream of the next great GU target.
As more demons are added Demonwrath will be even more popular as early board control for bigger demons.
I've seen lots of Resurrect. It's highly abusable and fun to build a deck around.
Neff and Chromagnus have all seen a bit of play here and there. They are fun cards too! Nothing like Dropping Neff to grab a Sac Pact to kill Jaraxus.
So, getting onto the next expansion: People will play with the new mechanic. There will be inspire decks and a few new archtypes that develop (Hero Power Mage and Totemic Shaman are both in the running for high potential as brand new decks). Some of the new cards will find homes in existing decks.
Ultimately the digital format has been a saving grace for HS as they have the power to nerf cards that are out of control. This saves it from the pitfalls of a lot of physical CCG's.
At this point I don't think TGT can be a failure. People will happily spend the next 4 to 6 months playing it and coming up with new ideas. There will be meta shifts and new tech cards. Sure, there will be plenty of older decks but that's fine, we don't want to invalidate anyone who doesn't have the newest fancy cards. That's how MTG lost me.
Is it not possible to create new decks in a competitive metagame while also making them fun? That is what I generally want out of this set. I dont want another set where they are clearly pushing something, but that thing isnt even good. I've played card games for maybe 18 years if not more, and it HAS been done, competitive decks that include fun cards.
If you would be so kind, can you list out some "fun cards" as an example?
Unstable Portal as a prime example. Patron was loads of fun, although it's since lost it's shine since we've seen it so much. The emporer was lots of fun and powerful for a meta card. It is also used in crazy fun combo decks as well as just a powerful cards for tier 1 decks.
Is it not possible to create new decks in a competitive metagame while also making them fun? That is what I generally want out of this set. I dont want another set where they are clearly pushing something, but that thing isnt even good. I've played card games for maybe 18 years if not more, and it HAS been done, competitive decks that include fun cards.
If you would be so kind, can you list out some "fun cards" as an example?
Unstable Portal as a prime example. Patron was loads of fun, although it's since lost it's shine since we've seen it so much. The emporer was lots of fun and powerful for a meta card. It is also used in crazy fun combo decks as well as just a powerful cards for tier 1 decks.
I think a lot of the members here would disagree. I am not one of them, I personally don't play Grim Patron warriors, nor do I play Unstable Portal. I do play Emperor Thaurissan though. These cards you mentioned are claimed to be overpowered in many people's eyes.
See, the problem is not about whether these cards are "OP" or "Unhealthy to the meta" or "NEEDSTONERFNOW". The problem is that everyone sees the game very differently, and Blizzard needs to cater to all the whin.. all the players' needs. Be patient. There are lots of time for you to crap on the new set after it goes live.
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"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
I think compared to Naxxramas, BRM was definitely a bit of a failure. The only cards which have seen large amounts of play are Thaurissan, Grim Patron, Quick Shot, Imp Gang Boss and Flame Waker. Some of the others have seen the odd bit of play here and there in experimental decks and of course you can't classify cards strictly as played or not played, but compared to Naxx that's a pretty poor result.
I'd like TGT to introduce more viable cards than GvG. So far my concern is that Inspire is too slow, even in control vs. control. What's to stop other decks from stomping all over my inspire deck stopping me from ever getting my Maiden/Coldarra/Saraad Combo? I know people said much the same for Grim Patron, but Patron at least has a combo that you can pull off on one turn. The current inspire combos all need multiple turns of set up.
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"I wouldn't anticipate seeing much of doctor boom" - Trump 2014
"I myself am not too hopeful about the Grim Patron deck" - Trump 2015
"(Secret Paladin) didn't work out and I don't think Mysterious Challenger will change that." - Trump 2015
"(Darkshire Councilman) takes a bit too long to get set up...bad" - Trump 2016
It really depends on what type of flop you are talking about. An in game flop? (almost no cards from the new set are used in constructed) or a commerical flop?
Even if it were a in game flop which hasn't happened so far BRM being the closest it will never be a commercial flop for Blizzard.
People are already too invested in the game and love it enough that they would buy new cards even if they were percieved to be fairly bad compared to the current ones. Sales would still be huge on release. It might affect the purchasing of packs in the long run but even then people would not leave the game. Another expansion would be on the horizon.
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How to become ∞ at arena: - practice, practice, win, dominate, profit.
Is it not possible to create new decks in a competitive metagame while also making them fun? That is what I generally want out of this set. I dont want another set where they are clearly pushing something, but that thing isnt even good. I've played card games for maybe 18 years if not more, and it HAS been done, competitive decks that include fun cards.
If you would be so kind, can you list out some "fun cards" as an example?
fun cards in other games? fun cards in hearthstone?
Kind of agreed that BRM is huge failure....only a few % of cards are playable. Dragon decks are a big failure...surprisingly only the Malygos lock is the only viable dragon deck...probably Blizz didn't see this coming as well..it really show how little they know about their own game.
Back to this new expansion, this whole expansion's success hinges on whether we get any anti-aggro cards since inspire/hero manipulation will require slower meta. At current meta and with any of the revealed cards, there won't be any new decks that can counter the current meta decks.
The only thing that looks promising is Shaman...they're getting huge buff for sure.
As for Rogue...they're be worst class...i'm still lmaf @ poisoned blade.
BRM cards has lots of unused cards but only very few bad cards. Addons like this create new archetypes -> new meta -> some old, yet unused cards, become more viable.. So I higly doubt that this expansion can be an complete disaster. If we see not a single new archetype and not a single deck which uses (at least a bit) of the Inspire mechanic I call it a failure, but I doubt it.
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Who can take your trash out? Stomp it down for you? Shake the plastic bag and do the twisty thingy, too?
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This is probably the wrong place to ask this, since i wouldnt be surprised if some of you wouldnt mind if blizzard took a huge steaming crap and gave it to you. BUT INCASE IT ISNT THE WRONG PLACE.......
What does this expansion need to do for it to be a success in your eyes? if worst case scenerio, there's only a few cards that are playable that have nothing to even do with the theme of the set, will you not care and still play? Would you maybe take a break? How much do you care about quality content rather than blizzard just releases SOMETHING AT ALL?
I have taken a huge break after blackrock because ultimately only 3 cards actually see play. That seems very low to me. Part of me thinks with the simpleness and the design flaws of this game, that it could be entirely possible that a expansion trying to "slow down the game" could be a complete flop.
What are you looking for in this expansion for it to be a success? Will you still play hearthstone even if the set contained 130 blank cards?
(and yes obviously we've seen VERY few cards, this is hypothetical, and i bring it up because imo blackrock was a complete flop)
I enjoy arena. Any common card that is not Flamestrike is good for me.
BRM, a flop? And there's only 3 cards that sees play?
Ahahah, nice one.
Wouldn't say blackrock is a complete flop, some of the cards do see alot of play. (10~used regularly, some others a little bit. Remember dark iron skulker? decent try at anti aggro but too expensive ^^ oh and it was a rogue only card)
To change the meta we need cards that counter the meta, this is where BRM went wrong mostly. Hopefully we'll see a handful of cards which allows people to counter aggressive decks otherwise it'll just continue. As you said: Inspire cards might be too slow and without effects to counter aggro\face. It needs to be effects which slows the game down. Maybe a 1\2 taunt with inspire: Summon another 1\2 taunt. heh i dunno. Or perhaps a neutral skulker costing 3 mana. Low cost AoE removal works too. (something better than arcane explosion).
However, it won't be a "flop", it won't fail entirely. I'm pretty sure we'll see several cards that will be used regardless of what the meta is.
Well said.
And those cards that don't become critical in constructed can certainly be useful in arena, the brawls, or just fun casual decks. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the cards in this expansion.
For me seeing more classes be more viable at more archetypes in constructed is the most interesting part of the game. For reference cards like Echo of Medivh, Emperor Thaurissan and Grim Patron all contributed to this goal with (allowing for echo mage, decks like malygos lock, and patron warrior to appear.) In general they've already released a card that creates a completely new archetype for hunter and we haven't seen what other hunter cards might support this card draw combo hunter.
Beyond that some tools to let control decks be good enough to actually function. It takes warrior the single best weapon in the game (by a massive margin), 20 points of armor gain that can exceed maximum health to stand a chance.
BRM wasn't a complete flop but you have to admit that none of the more influential cards from the set has something to do with Dragons.
That was a fail if you ask me and so far with the few cards we have seen it looks like it's going to be the same ,the new mechanic it's going to be for "fun" gimmick decks and a few cards that have nothing to do with it are going to be used on constructed and I dont think that as a developer you can be happy with that.
nerf this fucking grim patron and tempo mage and maybe something will change in this cancerous-RNG meta.
I've been pleased with the cards I've seen. They look interesting by and large. Fun to play with. Fun to try and get to work.
Have I seen a Dr. Boom yet? Probably not. Am I ok with that? Yup.
Not every Hearthstone player is a Legend ranked Pro player that lives for tournaments and their weekly podcast. Some of us will like the set if it's not a meta breaker, but, just introduces abundent new ideas and strategies to test out. I'd much rather some of these interesting inspire cards than see them create a vanilla 5/5 or 4 or something like that. I mean a vanilla 5/5 for 4 would see a ton of play, where some of these inspire cards probably wont, but, it really woudln't be any fun.
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This expansion needs to be one thing for it to be a success in my eyes: Fun.
It needs unique things that let me make unique decks, that's all. Hearthstone is the card game I play to have fun (and if I need to win a lot I just play my control warrior deck.)
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Is it not possible to create new decks in a competitive metagame while also making them fun? That is what I generally want out of this set. I dont want another set where they are clearly pushing something, but that thing isnt even good. I've played card games for maybe 18 years if not more, and it HAS been done, competitive decks that include fun cards.
If you would be so kind, can you list out some "fun cards" as an example?
"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
Well, since you took a 'huge break' you might have missed that you are completely wrong about it being a flop.
First things first, the campaign was fun. Lets move onto the cards:
There are 5 cards that are indisputably very common sites at high legend ranks including a meta changing Grim Patron and Flame Walker.
They made a very fun slightly lower tier decks of dragons. There are a few iterations of this but Paladin seems to be the most solid.
It had lots of cards that may see future play depending on class buffs. Shaman preview cards have been pretty solid which may lead to you seeing a lot of Fireguard Destroyer.
Gang Up has resulted in a not hugely successful but a very prominent fun deck of Mill Rogue. Lots of people have tried to find ways to abuse the card resulting in lots of play and theory crafting around it. I'm sure you'll hear lots of chatter about it in future expansions as rogues dream of the next great GU target.
As more demons are added Demonwrath will be even more popular as early board control for bigger demons.
I've seen lots of Resurrect. It's highly abusable and fun to build a deck around.
Neff and Chromagnus have all seen a bit of play here and there. They are fun cards too! Nothing like Dropping Neff to grab a Sac Pact to kill Jaraxus.
So, getting onto the next expansion: People will play with the new mechanic. There will be inspire decks and a few new archtypes that develop (Hero Power Mage and Totemic Shaman are both in the running for high potential as brand new decks). Some of the new cards will find homes in existing decks.
Ultimately the digital format has been a saving grace for HS as they have the power to nerf cards that are out of control. This saves it from the pitfalls of a lot of physical CCG's.
At this point I don't think TGT can be a failure. People will happily spend the next 4 to 6 months playing it and coming up with new ideas. There will be meta shifts and new tech cards. Sure, there will be plenty of older decks but that's fine, we don't want to invalidate anyone who doesn't have the newest fancy cards. That's how MTG lost me.
Unstable Portal as a prime example. Patron was loads of fun, although it's since lost it's shine since we've seen it so much. The emporer was lots of fun and powerful for a meta card. It is also used in crazy fun combo decks as well as just a powerful cards for tier 1 decks.
I think a lot of the members here would disagree. I am not one of them, I personally don't play Grim Patron warriors, nor do I play Unstable Portal. I do play Emperor Thaurissan though. These cards you mentioned are claimed to be overpowered in many people's eyes.
See, the problem is not about whether these cards are "OP" or "Unhealthy to the meta" or "NEEDSTONERFNOW". The problem is that everyone sees the game very differently, and Blizzard needs to cater to all the whin.. all the players' needs. Be patient. There are lots of time for you to crap on the new set after it goes live.
"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
I think compared to Naxxramas, BRM was definitely a bit of a failure. The only cards which have seen large amounts of play are Thaurissan, Grim Patron, Quick Shot, Imp Gang Boss and Flame Waker. Some of the others have seen the odd bit of play here and there in experimental decks and of course you can't classify cards strictly as played or not played, but compared to Naxx that's a pretty poor result.
I'd like TGT to introduce more viable cards than GvG. So far my concern is that Inspire is too slow, even in control vs. control. What's to stop other decks from stomping all over my inspire deck stopping me from ever getting my Maiden/Coldarra/Saraad Combo? I know people said much the same for Grim Patron, but Patron at least has a combo that you can pull off on one turn. The current inspire combos all need multiple turns of set up.
It really depends on what type of flop you are talking about. An in game flop? (almost no cards from the new set are used in constructed) or a commerical flop?
Even if it were a in game flop which hasn't happened so far BRM being the closest it will never be a commercial flop for Blizzard.
People are already too invested in the game and love it enough that they would buy new cards even if they were percieved to be fairly bad compared to the current ones. Sales would still be huge on release. It might affect the purchasing of packs in the long run but even then people would not leave the game. Another expansion would be on the horizon.
How to become ∞ at arena: - practice, practice, win, dominate, profit.
20K G's saved up every new expansion.
fun cards in other games? fun cards in hearthstone?
Kind of agreed that BRM is huge failure....only a few % of cards are playable. Dragon decks are a big failure...surprisingly only the Malygos lock is the only viable dragon deck...probably Blizz didn't see this coming as well..it really show how little they know about their own game.
Back to this new expansion, this whole expansion's success hinges on whether we get any anti-aggro cards since inspire/hero manipulation will require slower meta. At current meta and with any of the revealed cards, there won't be any new decks that can counter the current meta decks.
The only thing that looks promising is Shaman...they're getting huge buff for sure.
As for Rogue...they're be worst class...i'm still lmaf @ poisoned blade.
BRM cards has lots of unused cards but only very few bad cards. Addons like this create new archetypes -> new meta -> some old, yet unused cards, become more viable.. So I higly doubt that this expansion can be an complete disaster.
If we see not a single new archetype and not a single deck which uses (at least a bit) of the Inspire mechanic I call it a failure, but I doubt it.
Who can take your trash out?
Stomp it down for you?
Shake the plastic bag
and do the twisty thingy, too?