% Kingsbane Miracle and Tempo Kingsbane
- Last updated May 29, 2018 (Spiteful Nerf)
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Wild
- 11 Minions
- 17 Spells
- 1 Weapon
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Miracle Rogue
- Crafting Cost: 7420
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 12/2/2017 (Marin's Treasure)
- Jumarti
- Registered User
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- 5
- 26
- 32
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Battle Tag:
N/A
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Region:
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Total Deck Rating
483
1 - Quick introduction
Hi Hearthpwn community!
We’re Jumarti and Weedovore, two die-hard Rogue fans who enjoy experimenting, testing and theorizing for the Rogue class with the goal of competition in mind; and Kobolds and Catacombs with the new secrets, Fal'dorei Strider and the Kingsbane, is bringing a lot of new possibilities to the class that caught our attention and allured us to join forces for the construction and constant refinement of a competitive Miracle Rogue deck exploiting the potential of the new cards.
Finally, feeling satisfied with the deck we have been working on, we considered that it would be worth to show it to the Hearthstone community so anyone looking for either a competitive Miracle Rogue deck, a serious approach on the new cards or just and interesting deck to have fun with can get a solid starting point. Also, we as authors and players benefit a lot from the interaction with the community since the discussions the deck generates are going to be very helpful for us to polish it as much as it needs with the ideas the other users share.
Tempo Kingsbane variant
After a few days of practice and enhancement to our first Miracle Rogue shell, we paid some close attention to the feed-backs of our fellow Rogue players and we've seen a lot their desire to have a more effective deck against Aggro match-ups. For those reasons, we've decided to work on a second list called "Tempo Kingsbane" with a more proactive playstyle and a better board domination in the early game. After a bunch of research on HSReplay, Reddit, and a very instructive discussion with the very dedicated Wild format Oil Rogue builder Kohai_ , we're finally ready to share with you our second list.
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Ability (20)
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Weapon (1)
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Both decks will have their own summary and guide for you guys to be able to choose between which one interests you the most, but still keep a strong link with the players preferring the other one, in order to make us share more of our experiences playing our favorite Kingsbane decks, enriching both decks at the same time !
2 - Summary of the deck's game plan
For anywone wanting to quickly understand the main strenghts and goals of our deck.
Tempo Kingsbane Summary
Tempo Kingsbane is an archetype somewhat new to the metagame, although those of you who have been playing before the creation of the Standard might find it familiar as it is very similar to an Oil Rogue deck. In the same way as Kingsbane Miracle, this deck is able to pull out very strong Tempo plays and card draws effects, although this time the playstyle is much more proactive, meaning that instead of playing defensively and stacking answer cards in your hand before throwing them with Gadgetzan Auctioneer and recycling them, you will be playing a lot more of your cards early to dominate the board and build up pressure, before playing your Elven Minstrel and Sprint to refill your hand with threats and answers and aim for the lethal play. Since you'll not be forced to play some of your spells in a sub-optimal way anymore, to activate the card draw effect of Gadgetzan Auctioneer (Backstab on your own minions; Eviscerate face early when the board is cleared, etc.), you are completely free to use your cards in the most efficient ways possible. That said, playing everything efficiently is also going to augment the level of decision-making needed to play the deck correctly. Planning multiple turns ahead, analizing your options and understanding the tides of the game to create windows of opportunity for you to do your weakest tempo plays (mainly playing Elven Minstrel Sprint) when it's not going to cost you too much will be very important. So in the end, just like Miracle Rogue, the skill ceiling is very high and the deck rewards extemely well its best players.
Compared to Kingsbane Miracle, we'll be using Kingsbane to dominate the board in the early game first, then quickly start dishing out tons of damages unpreventable with removals to lower our opponent's health pool and allow our Eviscerate and Leeroy Jenkins to be used for the lethal play. In certain ways, our tools are pretty comparable to those of a Pirate Warrior : Kingsbane 1/3,3/3 and 5/3 statlines make up for N'Zoth's First Mate weapon, Fiery War Axe and Arcanite Reaper, and Eviscerate can be compared to Heroic Strike. The main differences being that we're focusing less on the proactive build up of threats and more on the interactivity of controlling the board, and that we have some value and tempo tools to slighly change our playstyle against control decks and regularly refill our hand with threats before going back into the fray with some huge tempo swings, which in term will most likely send your opponent to his demise unless he finds a way to out-tempo you with a combo kill.
Managing our draw tools is another important aspect of the deck, that will require lots of practice to be perfect. We have access to two types of draw : "raw draws" (every case of "Draw X Cards" : drawing at the beginning of your turn; playing Fan of Knives, Sprint, etc.) and "fetch draws" (every case of "Draw X of a certain type of cards" : Cavern Shinyfinder and Elven Minstrel). Apart from the fact that fetch draws give you a certain capacity to predict what they'll bring you (the easiest being Cavern Shinyfinderthat'll always draw your Kingsbane), they also reduce the amount of certain types of cards in your deck; something that we also call "deck thinning". Considering the potential of Fal'dorei Strider's free Leyline Spider and the diversity of effects present in the deck, thinning your deck properly before using raw card draw effects will have a very important impact on your RNG. The general rule of thumb being that you'll always want to use your fetch draw effects first, then use your raw draw effects to have more chances not only to bring one or more Leyline Spider, but also to draw your high-tempo spells.
This management can make Sprint excessively strong; as an example : with good management, you'll very regularly be able to assemble a Preparationand a Sprint in your hand on turn 6+, having played most of your other cards in hand to put pressure on your opponent, and then use Preparation + Sprint, bringing 1-2 Leyline Spider, and use the rest of your mana to play an Eviscerate or a Sap, which in total is comparable to a 6 mana Ultimate Infestation ! Obviously not 100% similar in term of raw numbers, but absolutely simlar in term of impact and tempo push during a game.
Kingsbane Miracle summary
Miracle Rogue is an archetype pretty dependent on RNG but somewhat consistend as the game progresses, capable of pulling very strong Tempo plays and generate a lot of Card Advantage, which allows it to shape it's gameplan depending on the opponent's deck and remarkably have some ways to win against any deck. Because of that, it's an archetype based on decision-making and skills to mitigate the impact of RNG, which gives it a very high skill ceiling and makes it extremely rewarding as you master it.
Kingsbane Miracle is a deck that follows the same principles as every Tempo-Oriented Miracle Rogue deck, which are using a lot of efficient Tempo tools and cheap spells to fight against faster deck's early game or dominate it against slower decks, and then use Gadgetzan Auctioneer along with those very cheap spells to cycle through the deck in the mid-game, and either smother fast decks by having more ressources than they do, or continuously develop threats against slow decks and overrun their defensive kit.
Kobolds and Catacombs added some very refined tools to the archetype that we're using in our deck.
Fal'dorei Strider acts as decent 4-drop that transforms into a win condition as the game progresses by pulling out free 4/4 from the deck, turning him into a minion worth 16/16 points of stats. Gadgetzan Auctioneer allows us to accelerate the process of Leyline Spidercreation, which gives us some form of control on the development of the pack of 4/4, and an extremly strong Tempo tool against fast decks that allows us to dominate the board.
Kingsbane, along with Deadly Poison, Cavern Shinyfinder and Leeching Poison, makes up for a very potent weapon that can both serve as multiples cheap removals to help us fight faster deck's minions in the early game and get out of range of burst cards by gaining some HP back and an infinite source of board domination and face damage against slower decks, thanks to the card's ability to permanently keep enchantments and come back in the deck once it's destroyed by Oozes or runs out of stacks.
- The highest-priority cards you'll always want to keep
- Swashburglar : Get that Patches the Pirate out of the deck asap ! ;-)
- Fal'dorei Strider : Playing him right on turn 4 allows you to start pressuring out your opponent very quickly.
- Deadly Poison : Crucial to make Kingsbane strong, but if you have to use it on the Hero Power to save the early game, it's still completely worth it.
- Backstab : Combo-activator; tempo gain; always finds a fitting target in the early game and allows you to dominate it.
- Kingsbane or Cavern Shinyfinder : Having at least one of them before the mid-game is very strong if you have a Deadly Poison ready.
If you're playing second and will get The Coin, Edwin is pretty much always a good keep. A 4/4 (or more with 0 mana spells) on turn 2 is going to win you a bunch of turns during which you'll be able to rebuild your hand.
He's also a good keep if you're playing first and have a Backstab. He then be easily played as 4/4 on turn 3 with the tempo swing of removing something with Backstab. You can also delay him a bit if it means he'll easily get stronger with some 1-mana card or Preparation you have in hand.
In the end, your Edwin VanCleef plays are going to be better as you start mastering the deck and won't generally be awesome right away. The general rule of thumb is that against classes that can't deal easily with a big Edwin (Druids, Rogues in the early game) or the majority of aggro decks, investing a lot into Edwin is definetely worth it. Paying attention to what you'll be able to do in the following turn also makes you consider your Edwin plays better.
Note that if you quickly pull out a 4/4 Edwin against a Priest, he's going to be a pain in the ass to deal with for him and impact the game greatly.
Although you generally don't want to keep those cards in your opening hand, if you literally see the auto-win play in your opening hand (let's say Counterfeit Coin + The Coin + Edwin VanCleef, or Preparation + Mimic Pod/Fan of Knives + Edwin VanCleef) and your opponent cannot deal with it, you just won a free game by without even having had to be too cocky !
Kingsbane is a very good looking card, fun and with a lot of potential that can be exploited if you build the deck with the correct support for it as it works very well to control the board, can give a long living Lifesteal when combined with Leeching Poison, something that a lot of rogue players have asked impatiently, and it may give you the victory on some fatigue matchups as it will go back to your deck every time it's destroyed. In other words, it has the potential to be a strong win condition for its infinite longevity with multiple functions.
Anyway, due to being a card that needs too much support to be strong it faces the problem of being only one (1) in your deck as a lot of times it will be hard to get on your early draws, which may make your support cards dead cards as long as you don't draw it. Because of this, Cavern Shinyfinder and the overall drawing ability of Miracle Rogue gives the card an ideal shell to be played inside.
- Which weapon enchantments to carry
From all the weapon enchantments and tech cards available, we decided to go with x2 Deadly Poison and x1 Leeching Poison. Then, these was the thoughts we had about the more common weapon enchantments and tech cards available:
- Deadly Poison: best card, works fine for board control even with Hero Power, Shadowblade or other weapons and synergizes with Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
- Leeching Poison: the key the heavens of Lifesteal weapons. 1 copy is fine as it will mostly be useless with Hero Power, becoming a dead card if you don’t have Kingsbane and the second copy won't do anything. That said, 2 copies may be good on a more weapon-oriented deck that contains Shadowblade too.
- Envenom Weapon: we don't like it in this deck since it’s not necessary for Kingsbane to kill bigger minions because Deadly Poison already allows you to do so; it's also a bit is too expensive for miracle plays with Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
- Naga Corsair, Southsea Squidface and Captain Greenskin: good minions for a more weapon or minion-oriented deck. Naga Corsair and Southsea Squidface could be useful too in some miracle decks as 4-drops, but that's a matter of preference.
- Doomerang: can work really well with the Kingsbane kit on this deck, but as it is a Miracle deck and there are already enough weapon based cards, some other weapon-free spells for Gadgetzan Auctioneer are more relevant; however, Doomerang could be a good tech card that may be included in the future and it should be better in a deck more focused on weapons in general.
Generally, she has such a strong impact in the late game that can turn an almost lost game into our favor with the many fun and powerful combos she allows us to do. The problem with her is that in the expansion's first week's meta aggro and tempo decks are very strong and present on ladder, and thus a lot of times it is going to be hard to reach a moment where you can exploit her utility to win, so it is going to be a dead card in your hand a lot of times.
Anyway, Valeera the Hollow can be a really strong card combined with Vanish and Arcane Giant to fight against some control decks.
- The importance of 4-drops
4-drops are the keystone of a Miracle Rogue deck. It's the average level of mana where cheap removals start to be less effective at dealing with the card just by themselves, so against aggro, having weak 4-drops or not having enough of them may force you to spend multiple cards to deal with the opponent's 4-5 drops, which leads to less cards for Auctioneer and eventually running out of resources. Against control, that difficulty to cheap-remove 4 drops makes it that you generally start putting pressure on turn 4. Moreover, playing Fal'dorei Strider also creates some win conditions.
- The Pirate Package (Swashburglar and Patches the Pirate)
Drawing Patches the Pirate in the early game can be very bad, but it's much more probable that you'll pull him from the deck with Swashburglar as you're running two (2) of them and doing your mulligan in favor of this, so that's a managable concern. The important reason to play Patches the Pirate is the strong impact it has on the early game, needed against the other agro and tempo decks common in this meta; it helps very efficiently to deal with the little bodies along with your weapon and Backstab, giving you more time to set up a strong Kingsbane, all of that for free 90% of the games.
- The new Rogue Secrets
They all look interesting, specially Evasion to potentially get extra turns in Miracle decks, but they don’t seem as obvious as other cards on this deck for now. They have to be tested first before getting added into this deck.
- Only 1 Vilespine Slayer
Right now Vilespine Slayer has very few good targets during an overall game because the proactive game right now is more designed around very small minions and face damage cards. For example, you can see that Bonemare, compared to previous metagame, is completely absent at the moment.
Then, Vilespine Slayer sometimes become a dead card on hand on the early game and sometimes it makes you spend some 0-mana spells in order to activate its combo and kill one of those small minions. Because of this carrying only 1 of them is a good idea.
- Only 1 Cavern Shinyfinder
Sometimes you could think that x1 Cavern Shinyfinder is enough as the deck has good card draw, requires some other cards and because a 3/1 body seem too weak, but in the gameplan of this deck, getting a buffed Kingsbane, while not the only winning factor, is going to be a very important one, so more chances of getting Kingsbane in the early game is going to be much better, and x2 Cavern Shinyfinder make that win condition much more consistent to get. Also, the turn 2 3/1 body is really fine, as it makes your opponent spend some early game resource or use Hero Power to deal with it unless they want to get punched/let you have a trade. So, Cavern Shinyfinder not only serves to bring Kingsbane but also to put some form of early board presence.
- Kingsbane kit not enough :
Apart from the Kingsbane kit there are the new spiders from Fal’dorei Strider and Edwin VanCleef along with the damage spells too for the control of the board and win the game. In terms of key minions, the main differences between previous to K&C Miracle Rogue decks and this one is that instead of Kingsbane and Fal’dorei Strider they contained Sherazin, Corpse Flower and Arcane Giant, and we trust, although their mechanics are very different, the new cards will do a great job to win.
Elven Minstrel is a very cool card that somewhat work as a tutor-effect because we play few creatures and keep your hand with resources while having an acceptable body, but at the moment we don't find space for him in this deck. It's a very good card but not as core-looking as the other cards chosen.
Both serve the same purpose but work quite differently and there is only one of them in the deck because in favor of balance having both cards could be overkill. To choose which one to carry is more a matter of preference or depending on how you want to approach the meta.
Arcane Giants have a big booty that can survive some AoE cards and that once you play one of it gives you a solid 8/8 being a total of 16/16 on the deck, but having the bad side of being only playable on turn 6 on the best scenarios, thus, being a dead card for too much time if drawn on early turns. On the other side, Fal’dorei Striders can be played at turn 4 as a 4/4 body, and make a total of 32/32 stats scattered in the deck, but relying on some drawing luck or being able to pull a nice Gadgetzan Auctioneer miracle play; their bodies are vulnerable to AoE spells but they are so many that if get killed, other spiders will come back later.
We chose Fal’dorei Strider to focus on fighting against tempo decks because of them being able to be played since turn 4 and also for the total 32/32 stats.
- But what if I draw Kingsbane and Cavern Shinyfinder :
Drawing both on first hand may not be so good since you'd prefer to get Kingsbane and Deadly Poison, but you can still use Cavern Shinyfinder as a normal 2-drop for board presence; surely, it's a weak body, but it can help with a trade along with your weapon (which can be worth against pingless Hero Power classes like Hunters, Aggro Paladins and Zoo Warlocks).
Also, a good option if Kingsbane is enough for early board control would be to use it and keep your Cavern Shinyfinder in hand to bring Kingsbane back. Drawing Cavern Shinyfinder along with Kingsbane is a little like drawing Patches the Pirate, a risk that you take in favor of a big benefit, but in the first case it's less probably going to happen and not as hurtful as drawing the little pirate. Mainly depends on the deck you're facing, but if you have Kingsbane, Shinyfinder and a Deadly Poison, you usually can keep them freely.
- No Kingsbane means that weapon enchantments become dead cards :
Having 3 cards that specifically mean having Kingsbane in your hand it is not going to be hard to get it on the first half of the deck. You can survive the first turns trading with Hero Power, and cheap spells, and in some horrible situations, spending one Deadly Poison to survive, but it's more probable that you'll draw Kingsbane early.
- Deck’s survivability depends on Leeching Poison:
The deck works like many other Miracle Rogue decks, you can use spells, some few minions and trade with weapon to survive before reaching a favorable position, so Leeching Poison is not the core for survivability. It is the key for life healing and getting better trades in the late game, and once you survive the build-up, the advantage it gives you is really big, may it be for killing minions and mitigating the health loss, or keeping you safe from burst cards.
7 - Deck Updates
Whenever we make a change on the deck it 's going to be notified here.
08/dec/2017: -1 Mimic Pod, +1 Elven Minstrel; definitely drawing 2 minions, especially getting Auctioneer soon is more valuable than getting a random extra resource while also having another decent body on the board. Mimic Pod may have worked better in the past generating threats for a more reactive playstyle, but as our deck is more threatening, Elven Minstrel serves better for a proactive playstyle.
08/dec/2017: -1 Vilespine Slayer, +1 SI:7 Agent: right now Vilespine Slayer has very few good targets during an overall game because the proactive game right now is more designed around very small minions and face damage cards. For example, you can see that Bonemare, compared to previous metagame, is completely absent at the moment. SI:7 Agent helps eliminating those small minions while also giving a good body for its mana cost.
09/dec/2017: -1 Hallucination, +1 Shiv: it's very important to get the own cards of the deck (minions as Auctioneer, weapon tools and generating spiders) instead of looking outside.
14/dec/2017: -2 Swashburglar, -1 Patches the Pirate, +1 SI:7 Agent, +1 Sap, + Cold Blood: too many control decks from rank 5 to 1, Taunt Warlocks and Highlander Priests mainly, and the pirate kit isn't doing much on those matches, so a Sap alongside Cold Blood make for good finishers or very impactful plays; aggro decks are still hard but pirate kit isn't doing enough of a difference while the second SI:7 Agent can keep control of the board and Sap and Cold Blood also make big plays on the mid-game that can often turn the game on our favour or even finish it.
30/jan/2018: -1 Vilespine Slayer, -2 SI:7 Agent, -1 Counterfeit Coin, -1 Gadgetzan Auctioneer, -1 Shiv, +2 Southsea Squidface, +1 Doomerang, +1 Blade Flurry, +1 Sprint, +1 Leeching Poison: after a lot of testing with several Kingsbane variants I've found Kingsbane working better on a more controlish style deck with which start pushing the game on mid-game, and the it is so consistent that playing some weapon-bases utility spells is very effective. Then, the deck now focus much more on getting the spiders and a buffed Kingsbane than trying hard to survive on the early game, although this means aggro will still be hard, but stronger against control decks; and also considering the incoming nerfs aggro will decrease a bit for sure, the deck is going to show a better performance. x2 Leeching Poison because this is a determinant for many games, or to get back after a hard early game vs aggro decks, so it's better to secure this buff; x2 Southsea Squidface because it brings much more power for Kingsbane and it's a decent 4-drop; x1 Doomerang and x1 Blade Flurry, both are great cards to control the board once you get a decent Kingsbane, Blade Flurry can sometimes get the game back entirely to you or secure if against decks that play many taunts when you are about to win the game, like Spreading Plague and Voidlord's deathraddle, and Doomerang works for many situations, giving you extra lifesteal in a key turn, more control for board and renew your weapon, and only costs 1-mana. x1 Sprint and x1 Gadgetzan Auctioneer, more like a style decision, both work perfectly, each one has a different draw mechanic that doesn't exclude the other in this deck, there are more than enough cheap spells for Gadgetzan Auctioneer and x2 Preparation for Sprint.
17/feb/2018: -1 Gadgetzan Auctioneer, -1 Counterfeit Coin, +1 Sprint, +1 Captain Greenskin: both Sprint and Gadgetzan Auctioneer are excelent draw tools, each one with its pros and cons that make neither of them better than the other but just good and interchangeable in this kind of deck which have many spells and some minions. However, Captain Greenskin is a highly valuable card for Kingsbane thanks to the point of durability it adds, so, in order to make him fit in the deck, we remove Counterfeit Coin and replace Gadgetzan Auctioneer with Sprint as there's a 0-mana spell less in the deck for him to work out well, while also, indirectly getting a bit more draw consistency with Elven Minstrel.
We thank you a lot for your attention, hope we have helped you to understand the deck and maybe some more things about Hearthstone in general, and are looking forward to discuss with you in the comments if you have a question/suggestion/remark, or some feed-backs after having played Kingsbane Miracle yourself !
Also, thanks alot for all those who upvoted the deck ! We're putting a lot of efforts in producing this in-depth guide and paying attention to it's informational and visual quality because of it, and we will continue as the page continues gaining in popularity and visibility !
Jumarti & Weedovore
Not having much luck with this deck but it's a fun one.
Hi Jumarti and Weedovore!
Thanks for making this guide! I love this deck and I’ve been scouring the internet looking for content exactly like this!
After reading through all the comments it’s very clear that Patches is crucial in this deck, however, I don’t have him and I REALLY don’t want to craft him mostly because it’s so close to rotating but also because I despise the little guy. My question is this:
First, is SI Seven Agent the best replacement for Patches? I saw Doomsayers suggested as a counter to aggro and liked that idea.
Second, if I’m not running Patches are the Swashburglers still worth running?
Thanks for the help and thanks again for the guide!
i don't see why there should be doomsayer in a midrange deck. You can use 2x Fire Fly instead to active combo as well as early drop to contest with aggro. Otherwise if you want to have more fuel for gadgetzan, there's Hallucination
Used this deck to get to 3 rank.
### Kingsbane w/o patches
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (0) Backstab
# 2x (0) Counterfeit Coin
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 2x (1) Deadly Poison
# 1x (1) Kingsbane
# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
# 2x (2) Cavern Shinyfinder
# 2x (2) Eviscerate
# 2x (2) Sap
# 1x (2) Shiv
# 1x (3) Edwin VanCleef
# 2x (3) Fan of Knives
# 2x (3) SI:7 Agent
# 1x (3) Sonya Shadowdancer
# 1x (4) Elven Minstrel
# 2x (4) Fal'dorei Strider
# 2x (5) Vilespine Slayer
# 2x (6) Gadgetzan Auctioneer
#
AAECAaIHBrICvQTtBc/hAtvjArvvAgy0AcsDzQObBYgHpAfdCIYJ9bsCgcIC3NEC5dECAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Oops.
(Is there no way to delete these?)
Oops.
dont get tricked by the rank 3. Cause the opponent from r5 - legend might be more control-ish so the deck have some air to breath. If u're at lower rank and facing a lot of aggro, fire fly is better choice for sure
You actually need to think a lot.If you face a lot of aggro you can try to replace one sap with Sudden Betrayal
2 saps are great against big priest or even new control lock
Hi, your deck actually works very good... From Rank 15 to 11 very easy to play. Thanks dude
Sonya is very usefull , more than a shitty patches :D
You are welcome.
Dont be too greedy with her!
Allright so we're talking about slow Druids.
(Btw let's quickly say that against Aggro Druid you're basically praying to have a strong early game hand and dominate the board, or pressure them out with a big Edwin VanCleef + burst, or for them to have a weak curve, and to have either the lethal when they play Living Mana or Bloodmage Thalnos + Fan of Knives... hoping they don't have another Living Mana, lol !)
Whatever slow druid you're facing : a big early Edwin VanCleef will win you the game or force them to use Naturalize if they even run it !
Jades actually should'nt be much of a problem with a decent hand : they have slow heavy tools while we have quick tempo tools; getting a Fal'dorei Strider on curve and bringing some Spiders + ressources with Sprint will be a very strong tempo push against them. They'll generally win whenever you have a weak early game pressure and they get some perfect ramp-tools curve. Malfurion the Pestilent might hurt a lot if your board is close to empty, because he works at his best when the game is stabilized by the druid, so trying to pressure them out as much as possible and dominate the board is important.
I've also encountered a few Miracle Druids; their playstyle is very oriented or ramping and defending themselves until they have enough mana to play Gadgetzan Auctioneer, but they have very little board presence potential early-mid game so use that advantage to go face with your buffed Kingsbane and try to build a complex board to deal with. You'll normally be able to keep an Eviscerate for Gadgetzan Auctioneer if you can't use it at that moment for the lethal. Spreading Plague looks horrifying against your board full of 4/4 spiders, but it's actually easy to negate it with a single Fan of Knives and spider hits : you'll more usually get punished if you have a few 1/1 slacking on the board so sacrificing them before building your spider army is a good idea. Moreover, the thing is that they have a bunch of pretty good single target removals (Wrath, Lesser Jasper Spellstone, Swipe and "ultimately" Ultimate Infestation) ; something that's pretty weak and irrelevant against multiple mid-sized bodies like your packs of Leyline Spider.
Finally, the match-ups against Ramp Druids are pretty much an extreme version of the match-ups against Jade Druids : either they have enough time to build up their ramp and overrun you, or their curve is too slow and yours if good proactively and you crush them. Sap and Vilespine Slayer are excellent tools, although be careful how you use them : If you're planning on winning over the next turn with the help of your board, using the last one before that happens will be pointless against an opposing taunt. That said, if you have enough burn damage with Eviscerate and SI:7 Agent and have no other solution, using your last Sap/Slayer just to go all-in and burn them down the next turn works : either they don't have a way to play Earthen Scales (may they not have it in hand at all, only have a 10-mana dude and no Innverate, or only have Deathwing which denies them any form of play other than clearing your board), or they'll play their dude, gain a bunch of armor, but not deal with your board making you able to use your spells to kill it and continue going face, basically negating their previous turn.
Hope this helped you; sorry for the delay, and next time I'll try focusing on a match-up deck by deck description in the guide and then pointing you guys towards it instead of taking one hour answering one deep question user by user. Although be sure that I'll use those advice I've given you for the match-up guide against druid decks ^^
Hey guys ! Just checked HSReplay and I'm very happy to see our Tempo Kingsbane's good start ! Keep it up guys ! Motivates me even more to rapidly write its description and in-depth guide to help you get even better results with it !
https://hsreplay.net/decks/#playerClasses=ROGUE&archetypes=184&sortBy=winrate&includedCards=630
https://hsreplay.net/decks/AKs0pro5WN4cTGDQqm2lEb/#tab=overview
By the way what the fuck is happening with Patches the Pirate having a better Mulligan Winrate (average wins when in your opening hand) than Swashburglar ? xD
https://hsreplay.net/decks/AKs0pro5WN4cTGDQqm2lEb/
Nice, I really like the deck and hope it will get refined soon.
But I have to admit that Kingsbane is not the main win condition. I feel like there's not enough support for the weapon, in theory it can be 5/3 with 2 Deadly posion but the chance is low (or maybe i'm just unlucky with draw). In Koha's oil version, there're 2 Tinker's Sharpsword Oil, so I wonder if 2 Deadly Poison is enough to make Kingsbane worth using (along with 2 Cavern Shinyfinder). And to solve this maybe 1 Southsea Squishface should be include in the deck
I've given you my thoughts on Southsea Squidface below :)
What I also really like with this idea is that using a Deadly Poison on a Hero Power to dominate the early game and activate combo will impact KIngsbane less, cause we have more buffs than needed. An other interesting thing is that we can actually tutor for that weapon buff via Minstrel :)
From your mulligan guide on hsreplay, I'm very surprised to see that having patches in starting hand has the highest % WR among cards. Maybe the sample isn't big enough (drawing a card is less than 3%) and in those game the players won more than lose as the result we see 60+% WR with Patches ? While mulligan for Kingsbane give u terrible WR, I can see this coming cause without Deadly Poison it's just a 1/3 weapon and that give me more courage to put Southsea Squidface in, and my thought is exactly similar with yours, no need to keep Deadly poison in hand, and Minstrel tutor.
Also I agree that the deck dont need more value as it has lots of draw (in many games at turn 9+ I almost out of cards) so Sonya is an odd here.
After trying both decks, I think the Sprint version is much better than Gadgetzan Autioneer version. Not only taking out useless coins (you can do fancy combo with edwin vancleff, Gadgetzan Auctioneer... but when u top deck those when ur hand out of card is just nightmare) and Leeching Poison (it's very hard to draw 3-4 combo pieces to make this card worth) from the deck, but having more minions = more threat on board. Drawing isnt a problem when u have 2 x Sprint and 1 more Elven Minstrel.
One issue is that even i draw a lot, most of the time (especially early game) Kingsbane is just a 1/3 weapon cause I do not draw any Deadly Poison (and sometimes they get removed by Skulking Geist). It's already very good for controlling the board but to maximize its potential I'm thinking about adding 1 x Southsea Squishface in exchange for SI:7 Agent. I want to add Sonya Shadowdancer for extra value
I have some experience to share too. Hardest match up is against priest (Dragon, Razakus) Big priest is ok when u have 2x sap but stil they have a lot of removal. The key is to having at most 3-4 minions at one so u don't get rekt hard by their board clear. Also making more than 4/4 Edwin is unnecessary (when it's come to late game) cause he's the only target for Shadow Word: Death in the deck and the cancer combo with new 3 dude that exchanges Attack stat then Let's me change your mind. Against Spell Hunter, try to predict Freezing Trap and always keep Patches to bait it.
Also i saw some players equipped Kingsbane turn 1 then turn 2,3 do nothing. That's very wrong. What i do when i have both it and Cavern Shinyfinder in hand on turn 1 is equip kingsbane turn 1, go face twice, then hero power, turn 3 hit then Cavern shinyfinder in to Kingsbane. That's 3 dmg that can lead to lethal. Against aggro, u win by controlling the board so no need to go for 3 extra dmg and value from Cavern Shinyfinder, use Kingsbane turn 1 without hitting, then turn 2Cavern Shinyfinder 3/1 body is good enough to make mages skips a turn by using their hero power.
Thanks a lot for the report and tips mate, they are really helpful !
About Southsea Squidface : I think it might be manageable to try him ! The best part about him is that it's a 4/4 so we keep denying Shadow word Death and Anduin, and 4/4 for 4 really works well enough as a statline as we have all experienced with Fal'dorei Strider !
I would agree that having that 5/3 Kingsbane more regularly would feel great : as soon as we stabilize a bit and have a strong Kingsbane, beating aggro decks becomes very much easier since we can't always completely control the board and play around burst, but we have an excellent burst potential ourselves :) Just had a few games against Secret Mage and I really felt like playing a Pirate Warrior in term of pressure via the board and Kingsbane, except I'm not relying on sheer damages and can go for the long game against control very easily.
I've tried Sonya (replacing a Minstrel to not have too many clunky and weak tempo minions, replacing Leeroy and a Sap with a Deckhand and à Cold Blood to have more combo potential with Sonya. It felt pretty lackuster. The thing imo is that the deck already has enough value cards (and some other more reliable than Sonya are still doing the queue), and different tools to pass on her. I think she's really awesome for Aggro Rogues which sometimes lacks different lines of play and can really get regularly rewarded for playing her.
She's been sitting in my hand waiting to be used for very long periods, and I don't like that in a proactive deck. :)