Hitting [Legend] with Handlock - Classic variation
- Last updated Aug 1, 2014 (Naxx Launch)
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Wild
- 20 Minions
- 10 Spells
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Unknown
- Crafting Cost: 5400
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 7/5/2014 (Live Patch 5506)
- take_eacy
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Total Deck Rating
92
I just finished a 6000 word article on Legend Handlock play focusing on how Legend Handlock players think about each card as well as expert tips related to each card and relevant matchups. Hearthstone Players made what was originally a wall of text prettier and hosted it for all visitors (not just premium subscribers) to read it for free. I believe it will offer a much fuller answer to many of your questions and concerns. Thank you again for all your interest and support!
The fully updated guide is here -
I'll be updating and commenting there!
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Credits to fellow Handlock Legend Trakkyhoon for helping me tech the deck. I ranked up with Handlock exclusively from rank 9 to Legend, and I peaked at rank 469 with this before I started trying to learn Miracle and tanked ranks. My win percentage was around 60% maybe a bit higher between rank 5 to Legend; I only say this because the 500 win counter indicated around 75 wins between rank 5 and legend (speaking conservatively).
I hit Legend on 6/26, so it was a pretty diverse meta - I probably could have hit Legend earlier, but I took a break for about half a week. My deck is teched towards a diverse/unclear meta to be jack of all trades and master of none. There are other variations of Handlock, but this is a variation on the most vanilla/classic Handlock. Handlock is a tough deck to play at its full potential, and I'm not sure about it's place in the meta game - this variation has like a 60% or less against top Legend miracle rogues, probably 55% against the midrange Druid, also like 60-65% against top Legend Zoos.
I watched a lot of Reynad VODs to improve my play, and it definitely improved my play from rank 5 status to rank 1 status. The key thing to remember is to try play more proactively and less reactively (aka throw down your mountain giant or farseer for 2HP gain) unless you're really trying to bait out removal, but the number 1 rule of handlock is still to make sure you're always out of the other deck's lethal combo range unless it's super low probability (they've played parts of their combo already).
Tech choices:
2 Soulfires - learning how to Soulfire is also a big part of this deck; soulfire to clear board when you can. This is usually after you play Mountain Giant or Twilight Drake and is recommended unless you have basically the best hand in the world to counter their deck.
2 Ironbeak is important vs Freeze Mage, Control Warrior, silencing Ancient Watcher against cancer/aggro decks to race them/dump cards from your hand. Owl will probably also get better with Naxx's incoming Deathrattle minions.
2 Hellfire is good for most metas where there is aggro around. 2 Shadowflames is nice if you see mostly Miracles and Druids, but if there is any decent amount of aggro, I think 2 Hellfires is better. 2 Hellfires can also be used to deal damage to the face and win. I've closed out a few games with double Hellfire + Soulfire.
2 Facelesses - I really like Faceless for the Leeroy PO combo (it closes out a lot of games), and it's pretty decent in a lot of matchups to copy your own taunted Giants or copy whatever is worst for the other deck (IE copy Twilight Drake versus Priest). I want to play Alex, but I'm not sure how I feel about that. That versus second Faceless is still a debate for me. Alex is marginally useful against Druid for dodging the 14dmg combo, but it's not useful against Miracle Rogue. Alex is a bit better for Control Warrior, but the matchup is not that common and Alex isn't that game swinging other than having another 8/8 (which you can have with Faceless anyways). Alex would shine most against burn/aggro decks, but living to turn 9 is already so hard - it's not really a reliable option. I would rather Faceless copy a big taunter. A good handlock game will have you close out the game within 2-3 turns of having a Giant stick to the board anyways, so you might not even make it to turn 9 or you might not really need Alex on turn 9. Faceless can also often be a cheap/free Giant and offer a lot of flexibility. Sometimes, you just copy a doomguard and try gain more board control. Against control decks, you can also copy Ragnaros and hope to RNG snipe theirs back.
1 Sunwalker - made all the difference for me. I would only play BGH if you see a ton of 7+ attack decks like mirror match, Control Warrior, old school ramp druids maybe. But Sunwalker is really solid in mirror, against aggro and zoo, can't be killed instantly by burn spells, and it offers you a decent midgame play. I have tried Shadow Bolt (nice turn 3, but only really shines on turn 3 otherwise you should just soulfire). I tried Black Knight, but I think Sunwalker is better against aggro. Sunwalker versus a second Shadowflame is tough, but Sunwalker can be better against aggro matchups where you havent drawn many cards. Shadowflame is hard to use when you don't have many creatures in your hand. Shadowflame is also more of a reactive card -Reynad was commenting about how Handlock play needs more proactive play since it's strength is kind of mid-late game. You'll lose in the long run against Control Warrior, Priest, Paladin decks, so it's important to play in a way that wins quickly once you play out your Giants. Sunwalker is a bit more offensive than Shadowflame.
No Bloodmage Thalnos - I tried it, and it's really good for those two dmg Mortal Coils, 5dmg soulfires versus Druid but I felt like it was too inconsistent. You always have to pair it with another card to get value out of it; it felt a bit win-more than a necessity. Handlock's slots are really tight so while it is pretty good, I don't think it's good enough to justify a slot. There are better cards to run in its place.
Acidic Swamp Ooze was great in metas that heavily feature Warriors and Trap Hunters. These are the scariest because they represent easy ways to kill off Giants or consistent face damage. We're lucky that we're not in that general meta now. Rogue weapons are not as big of a deal, and there aren't enough Shamans with Doomhammer to necessarily warrant Ooze yet.
3 versus 4 AOEs: I think Handlock only really needs 3 AOEs - whether that's double Hellfire or double Shadowflame. More than that has made me feel like I'm holding one too many AOEs. Reynad had made a similar comment, but he wasn't sure what was a better replacement for the 4th AOE. I also find that in a typical game it's hard to get the opportunity to use Shadowflame twice. I used to run the 4 AOE build, but I felt like a more judicious use of Shadowflame has been sufficient. Hellfires are also really good for the Shaman matchup. I like being able to play Hellfire on turn 4 and having to be able to tap turns 2 and 3 (or hope to dig into a Hellfire). Shadowflame on turn 4 requires setup and you draw into one less card - thus this means that an early Shadowflame would require you to have a hand mulliganed in such a way to play a turn 2 or 3 creature to prep for the t4 Shadowflame. I like having the option to tap more in case if I draw into a Mountain or Twilight.
Relatively new to Handlock here. Played it a few days now from the high teens to rank 7, not having much trouble so far, time will tell how far I can go! This deck, as a basis, is working very well for me. One thing that does concern me, though, is the scarcity of times where I've found Mortal Coil to be useful. I'm confident that I fully understand its presence in this deck, i.e. killing those 1hp's vs aggro, finishing minions you wouldn't otherwise be able to finish vs many other playstyles, and all the while maintaining your hand-count, which is a core mechanic of Handlock. The thing for me is, the times where I've found using this card to be an advantage, let alone game-breaking, are sooooo few and far between.
Personally, I've found the lack of a second PO to be quite detrimental. There are many situations where I've needed to PO a low attack minion before Shadowflame, to make sure I clear my enemies board, without sacrificing a giant. The quandary here is whether or not to just sacrifice that giant (potentially gimping your mid-late game severely) or waste the PO on a smaller minion like Watcher/Owl/Drake/Taunter, and leave yourself lacking 8 damage on the Leeroy combo. I feel that 2 PO's would improve our flexibility by a large margin. I am planning to test this theory of -1MC +1PO over the next week.
Another choice would be an extra Shadowflame or even Sunwalker, or thinking even more aggressively, ditching both MC's for maybe +1PO and +1Shadowflame/Sunwalker.
I am not dissing this deck in any manner, I think it's great! This is just a reflection, from personal experience, that MC seems to be a dead card more often than not. Mainly pondering on the +1PO, I think this could be used to such a huge potential. To drop a Watcher, PO it, and Shadowflame is a HUGE 7-drop clear compared to say - a Flamestrike, which is considered to be a very scary 7-drop clear. To do that and still have your 20/24+ Leeroy combo seems so amazing to me! Not to mention the other utilities this could harbor, like buffing a minion in play > doing some face damage > clearing the board. Or using a minion in play to break a Divine Shield (the minion would survive from the +4/4) and Shadowflaming for a full clear which may not have been expected. Again, all the while preserving the Leeroy combo!
I will post again after some vigorous testing, but I'd sure love to hear some thoughts on this in the meantime. Maybe some people have tried it already? Big Handlock love, all! <3
Handlock is really really hard to play. It takes a long time to get really good at it. I tried laddering with it for 1.5 seasons before the season I hit Legend with it. Patience and practice will pay off! Also, watch out for tilt since tilting with Handlock is just that much more punishing.
I've put up a much more comprehensive guide at 6000 words. Check it out! Link Removed: http://hearthstoneplayers.com/hitting-legend-handlock-optimal-plays-efficient-laddering/
I don't think substituting Leeroy Jenkins for Arcane Golem is a strictly worse trade, I rarely get to live the dream with Leeroy Jenkins, Power Overwhelming and Faceless Manipulator on T10, either because I've already died or I've already used one of the cards in the combo. So one of the things I tried for a budget Handlock deck was 2 Arcane Golem, and I try to think of Arcane Golem as an emergeancy removal spell vs aggro in the early game where giviing them a Mana isn't nearly as bad as giving them board presence.
That said, I kind of debate the whole Leeroy/PO combo in the deck, cut that and all of a sudden you have double Sunwalker and Alexstraza to turtle up with.
Sorry, I really don't agree with using Arcane Golem that way, but yeah I can see it as super last hope emergency removal. You might as well run Shadow Bolt though - Soulfire is often enough emergency removal IMO. The full Leeroy Combo is often a way to suddenly end control matches.
But yeah, other way to go with the deck if you drop Leeroy combo is a more turtle-y double Sunwalker + maybe a Senjin + Alex as your way to win. I don't know if the more turtley version is better or not - I'm still testing it.
Fellow Handlock player here, thank you for posting this deck! Looks like it's time to remove BM/Jax/BGH. I had been wanting to add the second silence for some time now, glad to see someone else thinks it's the right choice.
I'm a strong believer in Hellfires - at least one against Zoo. It's basically like a 1 time AOE weapon. You take 3 dmg to face to kill oftentimes 3 minions valued at around 9 dmg. That seems pretty worth it to me.
Yeah I'm about 400 wins too haha - congrats on getting Golden Guldan. I'm getting there!
Sorry, Handlock can't really be budgeted in many ways - you have to have the Molten and Mountain Giants. Those are the most key cards to the deck.
For the facelesses though, you can replace with a 2nd Sunwalker and Senjin. It's not the same, but it takes the deck in a different direction that is also strong.
Mortal Coil is too important I think in Agro matchups. Sunwalker is enough midgame presence I believe. I did want to try Sylvanas - I saw that Kolento had run one, but in the end, he took it out. I've thought about Cairne for a bit, but I prefer the Taunt on the Sunwalker. Sunwalker is a bit weaker, but has Taunt to compensate.
When they handle your threats too well, it's really tough I agree. I really recommend playing more aggressively in those matchups so you can end them before they out control you (oftentimes this is the Control Warrior or Paladin matchup)
Handlock player here, its one of my most-played decks, played it a ton, and I understand it inside-out.. Here is my feedback for the deck submitter and the people reading:
First of all 2 hellfires and only 1 shadowflame is never really correct (its my only beef with your list). You will need to use 2 Shadowflames in a game somewhat often, its definitely not rare. Most games hellfire just sits in your hand as a dead card when you have 2, and the zoo match-up alone isn't enough a reason to have a second. I dunno if you're just not using shadowflame properly or what for not liking two.. But there are so many ways you can use it.. Leeroy power overwhelming, attack face, into shadowflame on the leeroy.. turn 6 watcher + shadowflame. Turn 5 coin watcher shadowflame. Power overwhelming on 2 attack minion to buff its attack into shadowflame, etc.
I would suggest cutting a hellfire for 2nd shadowflame, or cutting a siphon for one if you still insist on running 2 x hellfire. The rest of the deck is fine for the most part, although I do like running 2 x 6-drops, one is ehh.
Also for the people saying they're running only 1 Owl... You need two owls or you're really gimping yourself in certain match-ups. Especially miracle, you can just autolose to a van cleef.
As for the "Do I run 2 x Faceless? Or 1 x Faceless and 1 Alexstrasza"... That is an epic debate which I don't think anyone will ever solve. I always seem to go back and forth, lol. I love having 2 faceless because if you play a giant or drake turn 4, and your opponent has no answer, you can just faceless it t5 and have another faceless for a giant later, or for the leeroy combo, which pretty much autowins you the game. And on the other hand, Alex can be a life-saver, and is a really good finisher if you have some board presence. Its a game-winner in games you play vs other control decks. I would personally say that if you're laddering up on the grind, to run without alex.. Then once you hit legend and face a bit less rush decks/zoo, run with it.
Great discussion - I agree with switching up to consider Alex more maybe when you've hit Legend. Except that last month's US legend ladder got clogged with Backspace rogues unfortunately.
Cutting a Siphon for 2nd Shadowflame is very interesting, and I'll think about it and maybe try it.
Hellfire vs. Shadowflame - I just want a stronger and more consistent play against Agro on T4. That's the main reason why I'm advocating for double Hellfire - I know that Shadowflame is super strong in those combinations esp. against Druid and Miracle, but I really want to to shore up my Agro matchups since it's not like Miracle and Druid combined comprise over 50% of the matchups you see (at least for the mid-late month legend climb for me). I dislike relying on mulliganing to get both Watcher + Shadowflame for a T4 Shadowflame (I could be wrong about disliking this). I feel like its much more probably to get 1 Hellfire than both. I feel that if you don't AOE by turn 4 against a decent/regular Agro start you get really screwed. What are your thoughts on that?
How would you go for Mulligans?
I apologize, but I would prefer not to write that here - that's asking for so much. However, I'm in the process of writing another article on this deck and that will talk a bit about general mulligan strategies - come back half a week later for that information!
Did you just read about that on the internet? Get a grip dude.
Loving the deck. Great work, leveled from 19 to 7 with it. Kind of hitting a wall there. Will post when I break through it :)
I don't have Leeroy ... any replace to him? ... btw nice deck bro! :D
If you don't have Leeroy, you can run Arcane Golem maybe, but it's really not the same. Your 16dmg (instead of 20) combo is 9 mana instead though I highly recommend crafting Leeroy - it's used in aggro decks and combo decks and some control decks haha
Actually, you can take the deck in a more defensive manner if you drop the Leeroy, Faceless, PO pieces. Try putting in 2 Sunwalkers, 1 Senjin, and Alex since you have so many defensive plays now. Alex would be your finisher instead of Leeroy. I'm testing this out a bit recently as some streamers have had some successes with similar experimentation.
Yeah, it's tough using Soulfire and it's painful, but playing Handlock you're always hanging on for your life. I usually Soulfire right after a big play so I can at least get one threat out. Sometimes if my hand is really good, I may try delay it 1 more turn, but only if I'm confident I'll survive or if the threat isn't that big (aka always kill those Auctioneers).
I run a similar build but with 1 Helfire, 2 Shadowflame, 1 Ironbeak, 1 Bloodmage, Alex, and then the big important one: Faceless manipulator, which with this deck I use for the T10 20 damage combo with Leeroy and Power, however the highest i have gotten with it is 6, any playing tips?
Yeah, for general ladder climbing (if you're not like top 300 players), then I usually recommend the recommended decklist b/c our ladder meta is not as defined as the top 300. It is a lot harder to pull out the Leeroy Combo with only one Faceless. That's why I recommend two. I don't purposely save the Faceless if I need it to control the board or win the game, but sometimes around 7-8 you realize that you have some of the combo pieces in your hand and you have enough plays to survive until then. Then you can try save your combo pieces if necessary. Sometimes Leeroy + PO or just Faceless is enough.
I think your problem here i that you are assuming you opponent has absolutely no removal and no board presence and you get a perfect draw. While I agree with some of what you said, and I can see a second faceless being good, I think Alex is a far more diverse card than you give credit. It does't just lower your opponents life, it can bump you up. If you are playing this deck right you should stabilize at around 6-12, if your opponent is say a hunter, that puts an immediate clock on you, Alex not only puts another giant-size on the bord but can also end the game. If its say T8 and you're at 10 your opponent is playing Zoo with a full board, Molten Ancient+shadowflame Molten if you have it or if not Faceless ore some other big dude, or perhaps farseer/a taunter, T9 knock em down to 15 and kill em or if they manage to minimalize your threats and say hit you for 4, you can bring yourself up to 15 and put I giant on the board.
thx, this really helps. @takeeasy