Hearthpwn

Not sure if it's me or just my luck, but I can't win 1 game for the life of me and I'm rank 19. I'm probably doing something wrong and I don't know it. 

Not sure what's wrong with this deck, but it's extremely bad between R15-10. I went backwards from R10 to R13. Going back to standard Zoo to climb the usual way.

Quote from Noodles2556 »

What would you class as standard zoo? I thought this was pretty standard tbh. You mean old zoo?

And no offense intended, but when testing the deck (before removing Soulfire) I had a win streak from around rank 18 to rank 11, and only a couple of losses the next few ranks, so I really don't think there is a big problem with the deck. I don't how lucky I got/unlucky you got but I didn't just make these changes because I wanted to use the new cards or anything, I did it because I think it's stronger. 

Yeah, old Zoo. I really don't know, it's not like they play much differently, yet I kept losing and losing. Switched back and went back to R11 in a swift. Bad karma maybe, I don't know.  I also thought it was better, but in the end it was a bit weaker at that range.

I'll get back to R5+ with "standard zoo" then I'll try yours around there then. Sometimes the ranked range in which you are can be fuzzy... really all kind of random shit happening in 15-10 right now.

Sorry bud, you have a great setup, but there really is too much gambling already involved in a zoo deck, your mulligans used to call games, now its like mulligan + shooting for a second 2/1 on turn 1+ZERO taunt,( please add another defender)+the standard high cost turn 5 minions (charge/loatheb).        

Pros to your deck: @@@medium to low cost in dust for players that started during nax/gvg (pro = cost didn't really increase from old to new that much) @@@Subbed in a few piloted, I personally keep one of these but there should be no more than 5-6 4cost cards in the deck @@@ENHANCO!  I strictly believe that any control deck must have 2x of these.  It is an unbeatable combo to just have 2 minions+enhanco, let alone a 4 minion lineup + enhanco, easy breezy board clear or finishers. @@@kept some of the direct damage cards, not all but some, which is the only way to beat GvG hybrids or full GvG decks-kept Loatheb! most people felt like GvG made tons of openings and therefor they could sacrifice loatheb, loatheb however, should be in every deck in the game, the power of a turn 5-6 loatheb is almost a guaranteed control deck win.                                                                                                                         

Cons to your deck: @@@GET RID OF IMP-LOSION  @@@Your deck relies to heavily on random chance, it's random enough without cards with chance @@@you dont really need 2 doomguard if you have even 1 enhanco, they counteract @@@lack of defenders  add a second defender @@@too many high cost cards, a zoo should have less than or equal to 1/5 4+ cost cards so you don't draw unusable turn 1-3 cards  ZOO thrives on flat damage, and mech decks really do need to be separate.  They only work as a buffer here and there but you have SEVEN cards and most of them replaced effective buff/low cost/low risk  cards.

These are just my opinions, I have tested several potential decks and only in my experience have I noticed the change in efficacy.  Just food for thought.  See you by the hearth!

EDIT sorry everyone for cluttering up the forum, I did not realize how extensive my posts were, deckwriter made a good point so I condensed my statements.  I am just passionate about warlock builds, lol.  Merrymaking to you and merry holidays!  D.

First you can't finish on turn 4 /w or w/o enhanco, the viability of an enhanco on that turn is so low considering a normal game.  On average I have 2 minions on the field on turn 2 but I lose my first turn minion, on turn 3 I have 2-3 but on average no more than 3 and I have to trade, on turn four the averages are so skewed its between 1-4 minions almost evenly and that is an aggregate of every single class faced.  Now turn 5 is the sweet spot where you have the opportunity to board clear and retain 1-3 minions (which is what I said earlier) so it sets you up for enhanco,  but the beauty of the previous turn is defender, defender grants most 2-3 cost minions the ability to kill most 3-4 cost minions and survive or at least trigger a death rattle minion to suffice for the loss.  That means by turn 5 you at least retain some presence that can attack THAT turn, leaving you open for a turn 5 enhanco OR if you couldn't on the previous turn, a defender of argus.   Then finish with an enhanco, a trade + face leading into turn 6 finisher, a loatheb drop to bolster your numbers and avoid clears, a poweroverwhelming spike=> deathrattle => argus, or buff damage from a dark iron dwarf(worst case scenario imo now that we have enhanco and you want, like I said before, at least 3 minions alive for that combo).  All I am saying here is defender of argus needs to be 2x in the deck, absolutely, he turns the game around and sets you up by being able to choose both minion focus from the enemy AND which minions you are most likely finishing with if you pull a divine shield or windfury.

I am tired of this Leper=>clock in zoo.   Everyone is experimenting with it but prematurely holding to it. Yes he is deathrattle so the undertaker combo is unaffected and yea he gives you a random effect but he lowers the damage per mana ratio, clearly.  Examine the statement, " if the draw is bad from his deathrattle don't use it"  on average you only ever waste 1 mana and it is on turn 5-6,  if not you are not monopolizing the board efficiently AT ALL.  I don't care how efficient you think the mechwarper combo is, those are the facts.  The only card that lowers the cost of mechs is mechwarper and you are fully aware of the flak they get in games, if they dont die next turn they set you up for a clear for all his worth.  That card draws more attention than ragnaros ffs, and he isn't just, "AT WORST a 2 mana 2/3" you are also losing tempo compared to if you dropped a Direwolf or a creeper and trade into turn 3-4.  SO best example would be a turn 4 mechwarper + golem into  piloted shredder enhance-o combo and by that time if you werent lucky enough to enhance-o then the odds are against you winning.  Thats if you get that exact string of four cards, and the odds of that are slim, I don't agree that gvg hybrids should rely on mechwarper even if you get the draw of a clockgnome and a mech  on the draw.  a 2/3 + clockgnome is a great 2/3 2/1 2/1 2/1 if you coin and a 2/3 2/1 2/1 if you are first, but they will completely ignore everything in the attempt at mechwarper.  The only problem I have is the 3/7 chance to get a card that is usable enough in ZOO,  +1hp is decent but only works on turn four (which should be the first turn you have 1 spare crystal).  +1Atk is extremely useful on turn 3 trading with a 3 hp drop that your 2/1's can't finish off, but that means you trade for that 1 mana instead of potentially dropping a golem or another 1 drop + UT or flame imp or egg, I would always trade into defender on turn 4 with an egg i placed early on adding in a power overwhelming on turn 5-6 for 8 damage, archaic in the meta but I left 1 egg in my deck because it just feels good to use that combo.  Reversing switch is alright, but I use 1 crazed alchemist always anyway to counter 0/X  minions in one hit, like the legendaries and sheildbearer and lightwell etc.  Emergency coolant is extremely good for mitigating losses on turn 4-5 .  Time rewinder can only hurt you so its useless 1/7.   Finicky Cloakfield is amazing in non zoo but if you are stealthing a minion instead of clearing their board, you are going to have 1 less minion to finish with and it's a waste of the 1 mana imo 2/7.  Rusty horn is a total waste if you utilize 2x defenders, you get two horns with one argus and the +1/+1 as well 3/7  those are almost 50% chance to fail, that is far too random for zoo.  Zoo is about efficiency and GvG introduces randomness enmass.  Lets return to enhance-o for the moment which I do agree with all the way.  It is random but the effects don't hurt zoo in the slightest.  Taunt is the worst of the three and hurt trading but it can be beneficial if you use dead end minions and are in a tight spot, use pilot shredder or egg or golem if you managed to keep an imp by turn 3 you can mitigate your losses with him as well.  Divine shield is the next best with amazing trade/protection for turn 6 and windfury takes the finisher to the max.  Nothing beats power overwhelming windfury on turn 5 or 6
.  So you take clockwork and claim it's better, but you also defend him by saying it's better because of mechwarper sometimes making him a zero cost.  That right there is why I believe this is skewed.  Now you rely on that combo 1/15 draw to make him a zero cost, adding another element of randomness to his cost efficiency.  LEPER is a guaranteed silence or focus and still delivers 2 damage, if they silence you can trade making them equal but if they don't silence you can trade/face/taunt as well as 2 damage face.  That brings them down 2 hp closer to a finisher 28/30  and it also prioritizes 2 mana from them in order to heal off those two damage. 

IMO leper gnome's efficiency:  2/1 +2dmg  at 1 cost => -1/-1 for play value  or 1/0 net + (2 damage face  or 2 mana to heal) = 3*/0* or 1/0 net + ( silence from priest @0 = 1 less in hand or ironbeak owl = trade and 1 less ironbeak for buffed minions (valuable). I mean if you think about it, why did they make a Legendary card that spits out leper gnomes and not clockwork gnomes hehe.  Anyway the only argument I was trying to levy here was that Leper>clock in ZOO.  It's w/e though, to each his own, if you like the deck play the deck.

To everyone besides creator reading this, this is just my opinion, this is the deckwriters page and I do not want to influence your decks in the slightest.   Merrymaking to everyone, Happy holidays.  D.

I feel like my comments were wayyyy too long for this forum so I have redacted them, sorry for the page clutter lol 57 paragraphs later. 

I disagree with your statement. The best Zoo decks do not gamble at all , they are amongst the most steady decks out there (well compared to the majority of HS decks anyway). The 70%+ win rate is  constant from R15 to R5+ every season with a few minor adjustments.

However, I agree with your remarks about this deck. I pretty much came to the same conclusion yesterday. Mechs shouldn't be mixed with deathrattle in a Zoo deck and Enhance-o is really just a "win more" card most of time.

As far as the Leper vs Clock issue, I'm not sure. I've been using both very effectively.

what about removing the doomguards for dr.boom and malganis ?

Ideally you will never see play from Dr. Boom and MalGanis, they are Oh-Sh*t buttons and zoo decks shouldn't need Oh-Sh*t Buttons.  Also if you include cards that cost 6+ you aren't finishing in time for zoo to be truly effective.  Another disadvantage of high cost cards: if/when you get them on the draw you are taking up space for playable minions in your hand and you end up WASTING damage per mana efficiency.  I have said my piece on Doomguard they are good and bad depending on finisher potency

How would Baron Rivendare do in this deck?

2 mana for 3 damage is actually not as good as you are making it out to be.  Think about it this way, 2 mana equally spent on a spider or 2 1 cost minons (ie FIre imp or Voidwalker) will play out to 4-6 damage/trade so if you consider the mathematical values of ONE darkbomb it has no place in zoo.  Also you are lowering your chances to reap a key minion when you draw more spells.  IE  you have to have a 4 cost trader like soulfire/power overwhelming  so lets say you include 1-2 darkbombs.   That is bringing down your chances to pull minions early on and may even skew the mulligan draw.  What happens on turn one when all you have is 2 cost minions and a darkbomb?  Well you lost all tempo and to be honest the game. 

Zoo operates based on 3 conditions: Mana to Damage ratio, minion control with direct damage and efficient trading, efficient ramping(deck should be 2/5 1cost 2/5 2-3 cost and 1/5 0 or 5 cost)

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yeah i see what you're saying, my bad. i've just had super bad luck with the card i guess haha

Great deck, love it a little bit slower and more draw dependent than old zoo fro naxx but it will be smotther when all cards are tested looking forward to it :)

Given this is a rush deck, why is it running Voidwalker instead of Leper Gnome?

Clockwork Gnome

I know you took out Leper Gnome for Clockwork Gnome.  I don't see why you would attempt to argue the two when I specifically talked about Voidwalker.

"Sure zoo is fast but it ABSOLUTELY NOT a rush deck."
I disagree.  I think our deck is trying to abuse the Warlock ability to trade cards with the opponent and reload while they run out.

"You are not just playing minions to hit face, that is how you lose."
While I agree if you are saying that the goal is to ignore enemy minions and go face instead, that was never my arguement.  Leper Gnome allows you to control your opponents minions while still hitting their face.

"the whole idea behind the minions you're playing is wanting them to stick to the board", "It can also help protect more valuable minions"
I don't think this is correct.  I think the whole idea behind your minions is that you want to use them to have a better board presence than your opponent.  And you then convert that board presence into their loss of life.  I expect all of the minions I play to die a fiery death.  All I'm trying to do is get value out of them in terms of controlling the opponents board and pressuring their life with whatever is left over.

If you consider the pros and cons of the two cards in a vacuum I think a much more reasonable arguement can be made for either:

Voidwalker Pros
+ Good toughness
+ Taunt
Cons
- Pathetic Attack, insignificant as a threat

Leper Gnome Pros
+ Deathrattle/Undertaker synergy
+ Deathrattle goes face
Cons
- 1 toughness means easily killed

Quote from theyjustfall »

I haven't got enough dust to craft Enhace-o-Mechano , and probably will need a couple of weeks till i can craft it , what's the best card (naxx , basic or common ) to replace it ??

Well, it's a buff card, so another Defender of Argus or Shattered Sun Cleric would be decent placeholders.

should you muligan abusive sergeant? I constantly get it but idk whether or not i should muligan it