Dreadmaker's Spellsword Rogue
- Last updated Mar 24, 2014 (Live Patch 4973)
- Edit
- |
Wild
- 19 Minions
- 9 Spells
- 2 Weapons
- Deck Type: None
- Deck Archetype: Unknown
- Crafting Cost: 5040
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 3/15/2014 (Live Patch 4973)
- Dreadmaker
- Registered User
-
- 2
- 7
- 14
-
Battle Tag:
N/A
-
Region:
N/A
-
Total Deck Rating
125
Update: March 24, 2014:
So, I did some fairly major playing around with this deck over the weekend and some innovating with it, And after changing out a lot of it and experimenting, I've come up with a deck that is different enough that it merits its own deck topic. So, if you like this deck, and it's been helpful to you, head on over to my new one and tell me what you think!
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/39938-dreadmakers-nightblade-rogue
Alternately, here's a link directly to my overview video for the new deck!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TucW9lRE9tg
Thank you all so much for your support!
Update: March 23, 2014:
This makes me really quite sad to do. But:
- 1 Malygos
Even though it's the theme of the deck and all, Malygos just isn't consistent. Wins with him are probably some of the most fun I've ever had in hearthstone, but it's rare that he sticks around long enough to have an effect. In the end, Ragnaros is just more consistent, and has an immediate effect on the board when played; most of the other cards in the deck are like that, and so it only makes sense for its legendary component to play the same.
Update: March 21, 2014:
New video! This is just another laddering session, featuring the change to the Big Game Hunter. Moreover, I also made another change after the first game, just to try it out. But, since I'm not fully committed to it yet, it's a secret! You'll have to watch to find out!
I also tried to may some attention to questions people were asking - how to mulligan, for instance. If you have questions for me about strategy and that sort of thing, go ahead and ask in the comments here or on the video, and I'll be happy to answer them in my next video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvQnCKc7C-E
Update: March 20, 2014:
Deck Changes:
- 1 Violet Teacher
+ 1 Big Game Hunter
The violet teacher was a good idea, but in practice, it just wasn't equaling game-changing effectiveness. Tonight, on a whim, I gave the BGH a try, and I'm thrilled with it. Perhaps it was just the matchups I had, but in matches I had traditionally had difficulty with, like handlocks and control warriors, this has made the difference. Tonight, I played against three different control warriors and a handlock (foolishly off-camera! d'oh!) and beat them all, and in every game, the BGH played a significant role in the victory. So, for now, my deck list is semi-permanent; there are no immediate other weirdnesses to address. More videos to come soon!
Other news:
Hearthpwn featured this deck in a deck spotlight! Site admins, thank you so much!
Update: March 19, 2014:
Deck Changes:
- 2 Faerie Dragon
Well, those were short lived! I didn't get rid of the Faerie dragons because they were underperforming - rather, I think in the current meta, the Ooze is just the better choice. Warriors and Hunters are very, very popular, and both rely to an extent on weapons to make their rush strategies work. I've included a more detailed reasoning for the inclusion in the larger description below, which has been updated.
Other news: I've made a new video of me laddering with this deck, which reflects the new changes. I also tried switching out the Violet Teacher for an Abomination during that run, but it underperformed quite a bit, and so I won't be sticking with the change.
Videos:
I will be *semi*-frequently be posting videos of me laddering with this deck and trying out different combinations to see if we can improve it. I've just posted a new one, right here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXhGqNuB_Oo
In future, I'll post new video links at the top of this post, like this, rather than collecting them all at the bottom. As always, though, the fastest way to get new content about this deck is to head over to my youtube channel and subscribe!
https://www.youtube.com/user/dreadmaker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update: March 17, 2014:
Deck Changes:
+ 2 Faerie Dragon
- 2 Shiv
Why the change? One of the worst things about this deck as it stands is early-game consistency. If it can go into mid game at no disadvantage, it's strong, but sometimes, it had trouble getting there. So, to remedy this, I've swapped out 2 shivs for 2 faerie dragons. My hope is that this change will make more a more manageable and consistent early game, and so far, in my limited testing of the changes, it has. Also, I've updated the explanation below to reflect the change!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update: March 16th, 2014:
Added 2 videos to the end of the explanation; hurray for verbal tl;dr! The first is a deck overview, the second is a longer video with me laddering with the deck.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
First off: This deck has about a 65-75% win rate in and around rank 10; my win rate is quite positive at the moment, and so it will see some testing at higher levels soon enough!
Premise: This deck was made as a means of trying to fight back against the current meta. In my experience, it does reasonably well against most things, but doesn't specialize against anything in particular. With a good draw, it's quite good against aggro (bloodmage + fan of knives will ruin most aggro decks handily) and it has a lot of excellent removal that scales well into the late game because of all of the spell damage. It can play fast if you get a good draw, and it can also play slow if you're in a control war. I think this deck works as a strong counter to a lot of popular meta decks at the moment, and more importantly, is really, really fun to play!
Basic strategy: There's no one strategy. This is a deck that is reactive to the meta, and so you should play reactive to your opponent. Facing aggro? Hoard up your spells and control like crazy. You have a ton of early removal for exactly this purpose, and because there are a good deal of card draw mechanics in there as well, you'll likely still have a hand when the aggro deck runs out of steam, and you can just take it from there. Against control? Aggressively put down creatures in the early game and control them right back. Don't be afraid to use your weapons on the hero, although I do like to save my perdition's blade and si:7 combos for clearing the board. The real trick to playing this deck well is in understanding when to use removal and when not to. Once you have that idea down (for the different sort of decks you face, because it definitely changes), you'll do well.
Card explanation:
Backstab: This one's obvious, but is worth noting that it's good to play along with Thalnos or even larger spellpower creatures later in the game to get it to hit for 3 or more, rather than just the 2.
Argent Squire: Nice, sticky 1 drop. Hard to remove immediately, and combos very well with the Blood Knight.
Bloodmage Thalnos: Wonderful card for a deck like this. They drop a tazdingo on the table? Thalnos + eviscerate and continue on with your life. You should never play this card on its own as a minion; play it instead as surprise spell damage. The bonus is the card draw; if you don't have this guy, a Kobold Geomancer would serve the same purpose; he's just generally better in what we want him for in this deck.
Eviscerate: such amazing removal, particularly with spell damage. with even one spell damage on the board, a tazdingo or a fire elemental is gone for 2 mana. Excellent value, and very versatile.
Sap: I chose sap over Assassinate. Why? It's much cheaper for essentially the same effect, as well as being more versatile. Against a handlock, it's true, you really do want the assassinate. But I just find that most of the time, forcing an expensive card back to their hand cuts their tempo way down, forces them to make tough choices next turn, and can remove more than one card at a time if you plan it well. Druid just double innervated out a yeti? No problem. Sap it! it doesn't even get to attack, and you wasted both innervates for 2 mana and killed early-game tempo advantage. Paladin just got silly and put blessings on a creature the same turn they played him? back to the hand. Big fat taunt minion (I'm looking at you, tirion) getting in the way of lethal or close to lethal? You get a turn of free board control. To me, assassinate is useful, but this is much more versatile.
Acidic Swamp Ooze: Hunter rush decks are everywhere these days. Everywhere. One of the primary ways in which hunter rush tends to kill you very quickly is by equipping an Eaglehorn Bow and using secrets to extend the duration and hit you for a lot of damage over time. This card is a solid 2-drop minion that can easily trade up, but it can also occasionally provide much, much more value. And, far from only being effective against hunters, it is very effective against warriors (both control and aggro), Paladins (EVERY paladin runs 2 truesilvers) and to a lesser extent, rogues and shamans. The 2-drop minion slot is always a tough competition in every deck, because there are so many comparable and equitable choices; however, I feel that in the current meta, for this deck, this one will work the best. I'm still actively testing this out, though, and so it's definitely subject to change.
Blood Knight: This is a weird one. I have it in here for two reasons. First: the more 'sticky' minions of this deck are scarlet crusaders and argent squires, both of which have divine shields. Also, in basically all rush decks these days, for the same reason we have argent squires, they do too. There is nothing that slaughters an early game rush worse than coining out a turn two 9/9, if you both had turn 1 squires. It is both an adaptation to the meta of everyone loving squires at the moment, as well as a nice little combo to get out an early huge threat by using only your own cards.
Fan of Knives: Anti-aggro heaven. Any additional spellpower is amazing with this, and it's another card in hand. If there's anything that beats aggro, it's AoE and card draw, and this is all of it rolled into one. Even against control, if it's hitting 2 creatures for 2 damage (if any spellpower is on the board) and drawing a card, you can think of it as a more efficient forked lightning, multi-shot, or cleave, with the added bonus of not being limited to 2 creatures!
Headcrack: This is your insurance against big taunts or anything of the kind. Rather than daggers, your hero power becomes an upgraded steady shot. if you have any spellpower, it's amazing, and you can use it to provide a constant, non-removable threat throughout the game. Just add Malygos, and this thing becomes your win condition. Why not two? Because you just don't need it. 3 spare mana per turn is already a good chunk for something that doesn't affect the board (note: only use it with SPARE mana; do not sacrifice board control to use it!), and 6 is ridiculous. It keeps coming back; you don't need more than one.
Perdition's Blade: Why Perdition's over Assassin's? It's a matter of taste. But in my opinion, this allows for much better combat against aggro and still excellent general control. You can get it out much earlier (indeed, if you really need to, you can coin it on turn 2!), it is guaranteed to do damage immediately, and it's less likely to have lost value if someone oozes it - if you use it properly, they only get rid of 2 potential damage, instead of 9 from the Assassin's blade. You want to use it like you would use an SI:7 agent - do your best to make the battlecry kill something, rather than just hit the enemy hero or ding something you can't kill. This card can easily be 3 for 1; try to get the most value out of it!
Scarlet Crusader: This is the same deal as the argent squire. Sticky minion, good value, and synergizes nicely with the blood knight.
SI:7 Agent: So much value. This card will typically go 2 for 1, if not better. Always try to be smart about its battlecry, and do your best to not play it without using it. The deck has enough low level spells that comboing isn't too hard. If you have to use it without, though, don't be afraid to; just be smart with it.
Ogre Magi: 4/4 for 4 with +spellpower? That's exactly the sort of thing this deck wants. Fine value on its own with a little bonus that makes all of your spells amazing.
Big Game Hunter: This is our defense against late-game control decks, and it works wonderfully. Without this card, games against decks like the handlock and the control warrior are generally quite close; with it, I've found that it tends to tip the scales in our favor. If you notice that you're playing against aggro, or something that doesn't tend to have big cards, it's not a dead drop, either - it's a 4/2 for three, which certainly passes the vanilla test, and remains useful as a minion even without its battlecry.
Azure Drake: Doesn't need much explanation; card draw and spell power and a 4/4 body. What more is there to say?
Gadgetzan Auctioneer: This isn't a miracle rogue deck, and you aren't trying to draw into combos. That said, card draw is obviously still very important, and having this guy in there will make your card draw go nuts for the turns he's alive. He, much like the teacher, will draw all sorts of removal, which is almost always something you want. If you get even one card with him, he's essentially recovered his value, so anything else is a bonus, and drawing any hard removal is a huge plus.
Malygos: The big guy. The funny thing about Malygos is that it's often a win-more card, rather than a game-changer. He will immediately draw removal, as you'd expect, but you have enough scary looking minions lower down that often you'll have drawn out your opponent's removals already. Moreover, Rogues don't tend to run huge minions like this, so people are happier to poly/hex/siphon the auctioneer, for instance, or even a drake, rather than holding them for this. It's inefficient, as any 9 mana card is, because you can rarely make use of him immediately (except, perhaps, with a 7 damage backstab). However, if he stays out for even a turn, you win. Headcrack now hits for 7, eviscerate 9, shiv 6, fan of knives 6 to everything. It's obscene. And that's assuming that you have no other spellpower on the board. Because of what I've said here and how the deck is set up, as you might be able to guess, he doesn't really have a replacement; there's no good sub-in for 5 extra spell damage. Ancient mage just generally is sub-standard, but might be something; I'd be more inclined to do something like Rag, an ogre, or an argent commander, or something to that effect.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask, and I'll try to answer them. This is a really fun deck to play, outside of being fairly effective, and so I hope that you use it and enjoy it!
Video Explanation:
Putting the deck through its paces:
any subs for rag
Big thumbs up for this deck!
I had managed to get to level 11 from level 15 without any problems before the end of the previous season. I feel like there is much more in this deck, and it's so fun to play with it even for a noob like I am. A got bored playing so many decks recently but not this one.
Thank you very much for posting it!
Also worth mentioning that I had a pretty shallow learning curve with this deck, and for the first tries it really disappointed me. If you are at a level of 14-18 and having trouble playing this deck, just keep trying. Eventually you will find out how to play it well (or at least much better), and you will start to enjoy the incredible versatility it provides.
Once again: thank you!
Thought I'd give an update to help anyone in the same spot I was. I made Rag, a Blood Knight, and 2x perditions blade. IMO these cards are essential especially the periditions blades. My win rate was really boosted when I added the blood knight and periditions blade. I have been able to beat any type of deck. The blade gives you so much flexiblity to keep the board clear and a cheap 6/6 or 9/9 as soon as turn 3 is just devastating...anytime is great though. One of the most important things is this deck is just plain fun to play...head cracking for the win over taunts, sapping super buffed minions. You have so many options of how to handle things.
Thanks again for posting it and your advice Dreadmaker!. I really want to try Nightblade looks but I'm having so much fun right now. Maybe when I get to single digits a switch will be needed.
Also your videos are really well done...really. I usually find streams boring and I dont learn much. I watch an hour of yours no problem. You do an excellent job talking through the possible decisions. Changed the way I think and play.
Thanks again for all you're contributing and please keep sharing!
Hey gcoupe,
Thank you so much for the update! Yes, I agree with you - for this deck, the Blood Knight and the Perdition's Blades are entirely fundamental. If you want to play a rogue in general, Perdition's Blades are just lovely things; they really do have a profound effect on the board.
Also, thank you for the compliments! I'm glad that you like the videos and can learn from them; that's the goal! I really appreciate the feedback.
I've done great with this deck so far. I was not sure about Blood Knight but because I had the dust decided to make one anyway; Boy it was worth it. I'm not really sure about the Ogre Magi either but keep then so far. One thing I have changed and seen the results really improve was put the Defender of Argus in Sen'jin Shieldmasta place. Other thing I've been thinking is adding one or two Cold Blood. I think its a great card by itself and could make some seriously combo with Big Game Hunter. What do you think? (Sorry for the writing, but english is not my native language)
Edit: I've actualy have to trade the Malygos for the Ragnaros the Firelord since I don't have that card yet.
Hi iPorkus,
I'm glad the Blood Knight worked out for you; people often have doubts about it, but it's a pretty effective card, huh?
Cold blood isn't a bad card, and I think you could make it work, but I'd just be unsure as to what to switch it out for.
And the Defender isn't bad, but you just have to be careful with it. My logic with the Shieldmasta is that you know, 100% of the time, you get a 3/5 taunt out of him. It is possible, though, to play the defender and get no taunts whatsoever (though, it is equally possible to get 2). The Defender is riskier, but there's potentially more reward, yes.
Im thinking since I dont have a blood knight. To swap out the argent squires for fairie dragons. No one drop but 3x more powerful for 1 more mana and imune to hero and spells...3 attack and immune seems like it can even be relevant later in the game. But im bad at deck building is this just completely stupid
I originally had faerie dragons in in place of the swamp ooze; they are indeed very good creatures. The lack of 1-drop is unfortunate, but I don't think it kills the deck or anything. If you don't have the blood knight, you might also consider swapping the scarlet crusaders for harvest golems too. That's a much more debatable thing, though; they both have similar value.
This deck is a lot more 'intellectual' than a lot of other decks I've seen in terms of the decision making process. There are a lot of choices to make, and making the right ones matters. It can certainly get up there; I was at rank 8 this morning until I ended up falling down because I was testing another deck. It's just about how you play it.
Hey Dreadmaker,
Great deck. I never put together good decks and was getting tired of losing after i got to 17. This has helped me out a lot. Having lots of fun with it.
Question on what to craft. I have about 1470 dust. Should I wait till i get the dust and make Rag or maybe Leeroy or do you think I should make a blood knight, big game hunter, peridition blade(currently using the 3/4 weapon forget its name). I was thinking rag/leeroy over maly because they fit into more decks...more bang for my buck overall. I also have Sylvanas and Illidian. If somehow they substitute well instead. Other than that i have every card besides thalnos
I'm no expert but I kind of feel the same way you do about Sylvanas she rarely does great things for me. Kind of like a descent sized taunt the get removal or trades fair to good and every great once in while steals something good,
Thanks
Definitly ragnaros, he can be useful in almost every deck (except fast rush)
If you're more into fast rush no brain deck, go for leeroy.
Hey gcoupe,
I would second Crimonia's thoughts. It's always tough to choose when it gets up to 1600 dust whether to do a legendary or four different epics, but really, Ragnaros is such an amazing card in basically any late-game deck that you should probably make him. He'd work in place of Malygos in this deck, and works as a solid replacement for most high-end legendaries in general. Leeroy is also great if you like aggressive decks - they're sort of equivalent really. If you prefer control, go rag. If you prefer aggro, go Leeroy. You can work both into this deck somewhere, and, when you swap over to different decks in time, you can probably use them there, too.
playing it live come tell me what im doing wrong http://www.twitch.tv/cocorotttv
4 game streak at (rank 15) with some changes, but the base deck is still really good i just changed some minor cards that i didnt have ( Bloodmage Thalnos for nat pagel also changed Malygos for van cleef and added sylvanas for a another card to fit my play style ) but the base of the deck is dreadmaker, its great 5 stars!
not sure if these are great changes but ill post back at the end of the season as i continue to follow dreadmaker and his deck! great work.
To be honest, I think that Cairne and Sylvanas are a little bit over-valued by the community at large, but certainly, they are valuable creatures. If you wanted to make one to fit with this deck, either would work, although Slyvanas may be better. I don't have any experience playing her myself, but for the same mana cost, she's a 5/5 that has the potential to really shift the tempo of the game; Cairne is just a double-yeti, which is still valuable, but perhaps less of a threat than Sylvanas.
There's nothing wrong with a 3/3 for three, but indeed, the blood knight combo is a preferential thing. I like it quite a bit, and I think it does indeed win games (especially when you use it to steal an enemy's shields!) but it is, once again, a preference. If you'd prefer something else in the three slots, there's certainly nothing preventing you from giving that a shot.
I swapped thalnos and the big game hunter (don't have them) for two geomancer, what do you think about that ?
I also swapped malygos for ragnaros
My winrate with this deck is kinda low, maybe because I'm playing on EU the meta isn't the same ?
The changes you've made are certainly reasonable; Thalnos is obviously more valuable than a geomancer, but that'd be my recommended replacement if you didn't have him. BGH is also good value that can win you a lot of games, but if you don't have it, more spellpower is good. In my most recent video (I'm in the process of posting it as I write this!) I too swapped out Malygos for Rag, just to give it a try, and I think it may well work better (though it makes me sad to say it - who doesn't like the master of magic!?).
As to the low winrate, yeah, I have no idea what the meta is like over on the EU servers; perhaps that's the difference. Also, I will say that this deck is not a faceroll sort of deck - you have to make a lot of decisions, and your decision-making ability will often cost you or win you games, depending. I know I've gone back and watched some of my matches and realized I lost because of a singular bad decision; It could well just be that you haven't entirely gotten used to how the deck plays just yet.
Hey Dreadmaker,
First and foremost, congratulations on making this killer rogue deck and being featured in the deck spotlight. Well done!
My only question about the deck is what should I be looking for on my opening hand? I've lost more games than I've won lately utilizing the Spellsword Rogue and I know it's because I'm not mulliganing for the right cards. The problem is I just don't know what the right cards are since how you play the deck depends on your opponent.
Thanks for the help and congratulations once again!
Hi BasedGooby, and thank you!
When it comes to mulliganing, there is a bit of a learning curve here. In fact, when I started playing the deck, I was losing a lot more than I am now as well. It's all about practice. What I've learned over the process of a number of games, though, is that you have to aggressively mulligan for creatures. Backstab, eviscerate and perdition's blade are super nice cards to have early-game, but if you don't have any board presence, you'll generally lose (and, if you look at the games in my videos where I've lost, it's generally because I didn't aggressively mulligan for creatures and as a result didn't offer a lot of early board presence). So, that means that if you're on turn 2, and an enemy hunter hasn't played anything, but all you have is a swamp ooze, you need to play it, even if you suspect a weapon coming. You also have to play the SI:7 agent on turn three, even without the battlecry, if you don't have another play. Board presence and early minions tends to be more important than getting maximum value, ESPECIALLY against control decks. If they're rushing (or you suspect they will, rather), you may well be more justified in keeping at least 1 control card, particularly if you already do have an early minion in hand.
I'm not sure if that's all that helpful; a lot of it is just practice and learning what other classes are capable of (for instance, I'm basically never worried if I have a slow hand against an shaman - they're usually very slow openers, so you don't need to stress as hard as if you had the same hand against a murloc deck).
I intend to post another video soon; I'll try to say some things to this effect for you!
hey dread maker I havent been able to make a complete copy of your deck thou I am a fan because spell power rogue is my favorite way to play the class. I just wanted to ask why don't you have cards like loot hoarder; is it because of lack of space, impact or space? and another question would be why the emphasis on 3 drops as compared to 2 drops? Im asking because before rogue i played druid and had lots of success there with 8-10 2 drops and no innervate and it did pretty well in casual(didnt test it in ranked).
Also I would like to see your thoughts on my own deck because it might give you a different outlook on certain cards and help me as well
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/37509-spell-rogue
Hi Kagulo,
So, for cards like the loot hoarder, it's often lack of space. The deck only has room, as it stands, for one 2-drop, and I would prefer something that can trade up - a 3/2. Loot hoarders are wonderful if you have the space for them, but I don't really have that here. Why three drops? In a lot of ways, it just sorta worked that way. It means that the draws are a little scary, because it's absolutely possible to have a slow start with this deck, but I've not really found the 3 mana thing to be a problem. This isn't supposed to be a hyper aggressive deck; more of a midrange sorta thing, so threes aren't much of a hindrance.
Your spell deck is VERY spell deck. Haha. Mine is much more moderate - I only have 5 spellpower creatures. I find cards like Shiv (which I had originally included, as you can see) to be not as effective as you'd think, even with the spellpower, and often, spellpower minions just don't make the cut. Dalaran Mages are not good value - they fail the vanilla test. Otherwise, though, it seems like a reasonable deck to me.